cobweb
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Age Range: 51-55
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Post by cobweb on Aug 24, 2022 5:52:30 GMT -5
I posted here a bit back in 2019 and since then nothing has changed. No sex from husband (6yrs since the last encounter) but I still would prefer to stay married than to leave. Over the past few years I have tried to focus on doing things that make me happy and trying to put the lack of intimacy in our marriage out of mind. That's has been going OK and life has ticked along and I generally have a nice, comfortable lifestyle with time to meet friends, enjoy lovely long walks as well as do my work. The kids are nearly grown up and I get to enjoy their company as the young adults they have become. My husband joins me for walks at weekends and we have a few other couples we socialise with which is always fun.
But.....
My husband talks of retiring soon and this frankly fills me with considerable concern. He works from home quite a lot anyway so it is not so much that he will be around more it is that he has expectations for our future that I cannot see working out for me. He expects that we will travel widely, taking longer trips together and yes of course if he isn't working anymore, he will potentially start looking to me for companionship on a more daily basis....
I am OK about spending time with him but the lack of intimacy in our marriage is a huge problem for me. I associate holidays / hotel rooms / tents (in fact anywhere new!) as a place where one might get down and dirty with one's partner. And that obviously isn't going to happen. We have had a few trips away in the last few years and I have just walked into a lovely room just made for a bit of fun-time and my heart has sank. I am just reminded of what I am missing. So this idea of lovely long trips would be nice from the point that I like to see new places, meet new people and experience different cultures but it would also be painful to have this constant feeling of something absent from the experience.
Also, my husband and I have a very functional relationship and I now know that I must look to my friends to meet me other needs - to be listened to, to empathise with me, to make me laugh, frankly! Spending an extended period of time just in his company would be extremely difficult for me and would put a big strain on our already fairly fragile relationship.
A while back, when I decided to try to stay in the marriage I said to him that I couldn't see us managing more than long weekends away together or perhaps the odd one week holiday a year, doing something activity-based, maybe within a small group. From the way he talks of retirement he has obviously forgotten this (or brushed it under carpet as unpalatable) and I have tried to remind him without being too brutal but he is surprisingly adamant as to what he expects from retirement. It is as if he thinks that because I have 'got on with things' over the last 3 years (heck we were in lockdown half the time so there wasn't a lot of choice!) that I am transformed and no longer have a problem with this sexless state.
He sees us skipping off into the sunset whilst I see myself quietly persuing my own hobbies, interests and (non-sexual) friends whilst remaining married but somewhat independent.
I am 54yrs old now and he is 57yrs and is hoping to at semi-retire by 60yrs. I will probably keep working but I work for myself and have flexible hours so travel wouldn't be an issue.
How has retirement been for other couples?
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 24, 2022 8:06:04 GMT -5
Welcome back and sorry you're here. I have to wonder how he might react to some of what you said. It would be flattering to some people. The longer you have only him for company, the more your thoughts drift towards what wives do with husbands. Given his unwillingness/inability to oblige, it makes trips longer than a weekend unpleasant. The distractions that make his presence no longer cause for difficult levels of unwelcome attraction/hunger/temptation aren't around on vacation. I love that he's seeming like a good life partner to grow old with. If the last piece were there, it'd be the old cliché. Have you run through the outsourcing option? Either asking/declaring. Does he insist no one gets to play with you even if he doesn't want to himself? If you're cruising along like you are, perhaps it'll just require sticking to your guns. Don't break what's "fixed". You can keep an even keel. Not interested in pushing the envelope. If he'd like to experiment with physical intimacy, longer exposure may be desirable rather than dreaded. How bad does he want an overseas vaca? Backstory for cobweb: iliasm.org/thread/5313/accept-when-rarely-offeredand iliasm.org/thread/5315/fool |
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 24, 2022 12:35:38 GMT -5
I associate holidays / hotel rooms / tents (in fact anywhere new!) as a place where one might get down and dirty with one's partner. And that obviously isn't going to happen. We have had a few trips away in the last few years and I have just walked into a lovely room just made for a bit of fun-time and my heart has sank. I am just reminded of what I am missing. So this idea of lovely long trips would be nice from the point that I like to see new places, meet new people and experience different cultures but it would also be painful to have this constant feeling of something absent from the experience. Wow. Boy, does a lot of this resonate. My circumstances have a lot of similarities, with roles moved around. I recently had a “brush with retirement” that was a bit of a wakeup call, and a lot of the points that you raise hit me as concerns. W was a SAHM, though she’s been retired from that role for the better part of 10 years now. That in itself poses a problem dynamic, as she is enjoying a premium retired lifestyle and any changes to simplify / cut costs to accelerate my retirement have no upside for her. Like you, lockdowns and then a taste of retired life left me with the realization that my retirement reward is to spend more time with someone who wants a sterile relationship; the opportunity to do more together would lead to frustration not joy. I get excited by new experiences - hotels are an invitation (a convenient excuse, as if one should be needed) for shared intimacy in a new and exciting place; a nice finish to a day of adventure. That oversized shower? The double-sized lounge chair with the privacy cover on your beachfront patio? The private hot tub? The mirrored ceiling? Those aren’t put there for the sexless. But landing in such a setting with an intimacy-averse partner is like biting into a luscious piece of fruit that tastes like sawdust. Right now, this translates to refusing to travel with W, and she knows why. It’s an unpleasant reminder of what could / should be. It’s also not the retirement that I intend to have. I’m still stinging from a couple of amazing trips in 2015 that had a painful amount of unrealized potential. So, I can’t really offer you much advice from the rear-view mirror since we’re at similar points. But I share your concerns about the future, and I have a pretty good idea what’s in store if I don’t change my fate. DC |
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cobweb
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Age Range: 51-55
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Post by cobweb on Aug 24, 2022 13:58:01 GMT -5
Thank you both for your feedback. It is good to get other peoples perspective. DryCreek we do seem to be in very similar positions. A friend recently said 'oh you just need to find things to do together' but it is not that simple if he is not the person I particularly want to do things together with. I get far more out of my other friendships and accept that one person is probably never going to fulfill all needs, with different friends playing different parts.
On balance I do still think I prefer to be a married woman rather than a divorcee and I value the time we spend with other couples, when my husband tends to show himself off to his best, but solo time is OK only in small chunks. I also prefer the idea of a future where the children visit us both, still living together, rather than separately.
Did you actually tell you wife why you don't wish to travel with her or do you just assume she has worked it out. I am usually upfront with my communication but have learnt in recent years that some things are better left unsaid and to allow them to be implied - so a response is not actually required. I sort of want to get it out in the open that we have different expectations regarding retirement but perhaps it is better to just show disinterest in trips that I think will be too stressful (a month in a campervan!) and work towards achieving holidays that we can both enjoy - I think that is what you are suggesting Mirrorchid, and maybe you are right.
BTW I suspect my husband would have sex with me but the last 25yrs have taught me that he only does it when he feels he has to and the look of distaste that flashes across his face tells me everything I need to know. I'm sure we could have a year or two with sex every now and again but I am also sure it would disappear pretty quickly, leaving me even more sad and rejected. As far as I am concern that door is firmly shut. I waited eagerly for 3 years whilst he saw a therapist but he never even told her about the lack of sex being a problem in the marriage! I asked repeatedly for him to start addressing the issue but he didn't/couldn't and whatever inhibits his sex drive was closed tightly away forever I think once we went into lockdown. I cannot think of him as a sexual being. We have no physical contact at all and that is the way it has to be for me to stay. He hasn't seen me undressing in 4 years.
You mention outsourcing Mirrorchid and that is going to be my next post!
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cobweb
Junior Member
Posts: 52
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by cobweb on Aug 24, 2022 14:01:41 GMT -5
I get excited by new experiences - hotels are an invitation (a convenient excuse, as if one should be needed) for shared intimacy in a new and exciting place; a nice finish to a day of adventure. That oversized shower? The double-sized lounge chair with the privacy cover on your beachfront patio? The private hot tub? The mirrored ceiling? Those aren’t put there for the sexless. But landing in such a setting with an intimacy-averse partner is like biting into a luscious piece of fruit that tastes like sawdust. |
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cobweb
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Age Range: 51-55
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Post by cobweb on Aug 24, 2022 14:02:51 GMT -5
Sorry that missed off my comment...
You describe it so well. Exactly as I see it. It makes me weep to think of those lost moments. How can he not feel the same?
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 24, 2022 15:25:15 GMT -5
A friend recently said 'oh you just need to find things to do together' but it is not that simple if he is not the person I particularly want to do things together with. I get far more out of my other friendships and accept that one person is probably never going to fulfill all needs, with different friends playing different parts. That’s the rub, isn’t it… intimacy is the spice of life that can be had for free and benefits everyone. It is a mystery why some people get no value from it and treat it like an unpleasant task to be tolerated. (Boy, do I know that body language… when enthusiasm is on par with cleaning the cat box.) More importantly, why do we choose to stay in such situations? I’ve been in the “staying” camp for decades, but with increasing bouts of “escape at any cost”; it’s an emotional roller coaster. My brief taste of retirement made me realize that there’s no reward for endurance. To the contrary, endurance has bought me the expensive obligation of lifetime alimony. (That your H won’t even raise the topic of sex with his therapist after 3 years… tells you all you need to know about the future.) For decades I’ve coped via distraction - lots of solo hobbies to keep me fully occupied away from W. It works, and pretty well when one is employed and rooted somewhere during the workweek. But in retirement there is opportunity for more freedom and bigger interests that tend to involve one’s spouse, like travel. Why forego that opportunity? And yes… you can do quite a lot with friends as the distraction, but it leaves a gap when it comes to sex and emotional intimacy. That’s not something you just keep on tap - even if you went the FWB route it’s still a shadow life that you can’t bring into your friend circle, do family events, take trips with, etc. And you’re still tethered to your spouse financially and geographically. Then, ironically, you’d be the bad guy if it came to light. So, what’s to be done? Channel that angst and become a disturbed artist whose works only gain value after their death? DC |
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 24, 2022 17:19:11 GMT -5
Did you actually tell you wife why you don't wish to travel with her or do you just assume she has worked it out. I am usually upfront with my communication but have learnt in recent years that some things are better left unsaid and to allow them to be implied - so a response is not actually required. I sort of want to get it out in the open that we have different expectations regarding retirement but perhaps it is better to just show disinterest in trips that I think will be too stressful (a month in a campervan!) and work towards achieving holidays that we can both enjoy - I think that is what you are suggesting Mirrorchid, and maybe you are right. I just remembered that I hadn’t responded to this question. Yes, I’ve been clear that while I’m eager to travel, I don’t wish to travel with her - and it’s because I equate adventure with intimacy and that leads to disappointment that I can just avoid. I have become a bit blunt in recent years, which has led to much friction. I tired of sugar coating things in the name of keeping the peace - it just led to my own needs being suppressed and reinforced her warped view of things. I feel more authentic for doing so, but it’s a change in behavior that she isn’t pleased with because I’m more apt to call things out instead of letting them be ignored. DC |
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Post by baza on Aug 24, 2022 20:26:57 GMT -5
I've just been re-reading your old posts (back into July 2019) Sister cobweb . Overall it looks like the resentment levels have escalated over the past 3 years, and resentment tends to kill relationships stone dead over time. With retirement looming - when you'll be together even more - is most likely going to add to the resentment levels. Yours because of his inability / unwillingness to engage you sexually - and his by your need to have that connection (although it reads now like you don't have any remaining desire to connect sexually with him) It would seem that what he wants from a wife, and what you want from a husband are fundamentally at odds with each other. Anyway, to your question - "How has retirement been for other couples?" In my situation, retirement meant that we were seeing each other 24/7 and our relationship could not handle that sort of additional pressure. We parted company in 2009. As it turned out, that extra pressure was a good thing. It brought the unhappy marriage to an end pretty abruptly. Without that bit of extra pressure, the unhappy marriage may have struggled along for God knows how much longer, doing neither of us much good. |
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Post by steve1968 on Aug 25, 2022 9:22:30 GMT -5
If you ever decide to outsource, being with him all the time is going to make that very difficult, unless you're doing it openly. My frustration really peaked a while back and I had a 'lightbulb' moment. If I was still working, I could (maybe) pull off a FWB relationship (long lunches or whatever). Now that we are together ALL THE TIME, no way. Now, I can barely get out of the house for an hour or so. (She doesn't really form many friendships or outside interests).
So, you are correct in your worry, things will change when he's around all the time.
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cobweb
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Age Range: 51-55
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Post by cobweb on Aug 25, 2022 12:11:47 GMT -5
Well lots to mull over from your three replies. Thank you all. It seems that retirement is definitely going to change things, from what you all seem to be saying. And almost certainly not for the better. Rather what I was expecting.
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cobweb
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Age Range: 51-55
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Post by cobweb on Aug 25, 2022 12:21:14 GMT -5
Overall it looks like the resentment levels have escalated over the past 3 years, and resentment tends to kill relationships stone dead over time. Thank you for taking time to read my old posts. I don't think I am any more resentful than I was, I have just switched off and am no longer trying. I put myself first and am less concerned if that upsets my husband. It is a shame that retirement pushed your marriage over the edge but I can perfectly relate to why that happened. We could go on and on as we are with things being perfectly pleasant but as you say, what he wants from a marriage doesn't match what I want and more time in each other's company will only make those differences more evident.
He is genuinely a nice guy - fairly kind, reasonably supportive etc, and we never ever do anything so emotional as have an argument. Heaven forbid he could show me some emotion. It is just rather like living with an empty box.....
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cobweb
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Posts: 52
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by cobweb on Aug 25, 2022 12:29:33 GMT -5
I just remembered that I hadn’t responded to this question. Yes, I’ve been clear that while I’m eager to travel, I don’t wish to travel with her - and it’s because I equate adventure with intimacy and that leads to disappointment that I can just avoid. I have become a bit blunt in recent years, which has led to much friction. I tired of sugar coating things in the name of keeping the peace - it just led to my own needs being suppressed and reinforced her warped view of things. I feel more authentic for doing so, but it’s a change in behavior that she isn’t pleased with because I’m more apt to call things out instead of letting them be ignored. DC
You sound so close to making a change DC. The obvious bad feelings on both sides must be very hard to live with but I can see how you got to this point and rather suspect it is where I am heading. My communication is much blunter than it once was and I can see I will have to spell it out to him that I will be doing some traveling on my in the future, which he definitely won't like. The odd weekend away with the girls is one thing but a 2 week trip somewhere nice he just won't understand. If I put it to him that I need the time apart if we are to stay married then I think he will agree to virtually anything, even maybe outsourcing....
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cobweb
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Age Range: 51-55
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Post by cobweb on Aug 25, 2022 12:32:26 GMT -5
If you ever decide to outsource, being with him all the time is going to make that very difficult, unless you're doing it openly. My frustration really peaked a while back and I had a 'lightbulb' moment. If I was still working, I could (maybe) pull off a FWB relationship (long lunches or whatever). Now that we are together ALL THE TIME, no way. Now, I can barely get out of the house for an hour or so. (She doesn't really form many friendships or outside interests). So, you are correct in your worry, things will change when he's around all the time. I have been wondering how to conduct an affair discreetly and hadn't really considered how much harder it could be in the future. I had thought perhaps I could solo travel sometimes and that might be a chance to meet someone, away from the all-too-small home town! Your wife obviously relies on you for much of her socialising, so that is a real pressure I can see.
BTW what is a FWB relationship? Sounds fun! Especially the 'whatever' 
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Post by baza on Aug 25, 2022 23:08:43 GMT -5
"FWB" = "Friend With Benefits" ..... someone to have casual sex with.
This option is invariably a game changer and can spin things off at highly unpredictable tangents, up to - and including - collapsing your primary relationship in spectaculer fashion.
So really, it is an option you need to check out fully with the same level of detail and planning as you would if you were to be checking out the leaving option.
The 3 options you have (stay or leave or cheat) are all perfectly valid options, each with their own difficulties. But the cheating option is far and away the most adventurous and unpredictable.
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