How much is enough?

Creel - your kids are going to grow up someday. Even as they become teenagers, they will start to detach somewhat. This is natural - even if you and your kids have a great relationship. It's natural and normal for parents to drop lower on the kids' list as the kids get older.

They won't be around forever. Is it really worth trashing the rest of your life? Do you think you could maybe leave the refusing b---- after the kids are grown up?

I have that fear too. I know there are a lot of good reasons not to stay for the sake of the kids, but from a purely selfish and personal point of view I think even with 50% custody you would miss out on a lot, and the relationship would inevitably be different. Also I would imagine that splitting custody 50/50 down the middle is quite hard on the kids if they are shuffling from house to house every time.

Regardless what folks say -- university and think tank studies -- divorce and shared custody SUCKS for kids.  

I base this on what the KIDS say.  My kids -- junior high -- tell me all the time about the struggles of their friends with mixed (up) families.   It's heartbreaking and the stories can fill books.   

Most of the kids we take dirt biking have father's and step father's that simply can't muster the time or energy to do this shockingly fun activity with their kids.  

And here's the most heartbreaking pattern I've seen:  most of these kids speak well of their dads most of the time.  Lots of hope and wishfull thinking.    

This weekend, I took the whole family to Indianapolis for the Supercross races.  Both my daughter and son had friends that said they might be going as well based on a statement from a father or step father.   As the kids were texting on the drive down, each of their friends finally admitted that they weren't able to go for one reason or another.   This happens every time unless I just invite them and pay for it.  

This applies double for actually riding or fishing, or any big day activity.  I keep extra gear for these kids so they can do SOMETHING.  We even keep an extra motorcycle for them. 

I'll drive by the houses of these kids to pick up their bikes after work for riding the next morning.   Their folks (the mixed up collection of biological and step parents) can't be bothered to even keep these expensive machines running safely.  So I do this too and try to teach them how it's done and the required standards necessary for safe riding.  

Damnit, in one case, the step dad bought one boy a BRAND NEW bike, but after months of riding, I found that the poor kid didn't know how to properly strap on his helmet!!!!!!!   Another -- similar situation, with a dad with a $20K Harley -- didn't have boots!!!!    I refused to take him till he got some.    I had to explain it to his mother and grand father.  That triggered BIG  fights with dad and step dad.  Somehow he got the boots.  

Rant over.  Now I'm mad.  

No thanks.   I'll happily stay sexless while my kids need me HERE. 

Stuff like this is why men need to be allowed to have mistresses - like they did in the past (and still do in countries that are less puritanical about sex.)

So, Mrs. Frigid Bitch wants the wedding and the house and the kids and the social approval, but she doesn't want sex?

Fine.

Since she's getting all the goodies in this relationship, the husband should be allowed to have a FWB. There are women who have been married and divorced, who are not going to demand that he leave Mrs. Frigid Bitch and the kids.

I hate these women who have EVERYTHING, but who withhold sex from their husbands and are generally bitches to them. It's not fair, and I hate these women enough that if I had a male friend in my life who was being refused, I might very well consider being his mistress - if he approached me.

I don't see why the frigid bitches, who are spoiled rotten, get all the good men. You know damn well a lot of them only have kids so they can trap a man into getting and staying married. If they have more than one kid, they may even be able to get out of holding down a paying job. Well done, bitches!

SK, I hear you.  

To my knowledge, men are allowed to have mistresses pretty much all over the world.  It's just that in some places -- mostly the west -- they have to deal with the consequences of being divorced by there wives.  Most western countries still protect the wives and children from abandonment to some degree.  But I'm not aware of any jurisdiction enforcing any adultery laws.   Maybe I'm wrong.

Many of us refused men aren't exactly wonderful catches ourselves.  The first thing I would put before you as evidence of this is that we chose our refusers in the first place.  I know in my case, that my head was pretty far up my ass when I did that, and probably still is.

But while frigid bitches piss me off, dead beat dads frost me even more.  I'd say the negative impact to society from the latter is way worse.

I'm sure it isn't fair.  

I just wish there were an example of a well divorced couple with kids that benefited from having Dad move out that I could draw an exception from.

My wife's sister and her husband divorced several years ago when their kids were in Junior High.  I'm sure it was because my sister-in-law is a frigid bitch.  Her husband -- my BIL -- was a good guy, and stayed close to the kids.  

But their daughter suffered from all of it, was in therapy, and I would consider her a bit of a mess now.  

BIL remarried within a few years, and I don't know much about his situation other than he's happy.  

So my best example is a disaster.