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Post by sweetplumeria on Feb 4, 2022 3:43:23 GMT -5
Hey, I just want everyone to know I really appreciate this open and honest chat. The non judgmental feedback is truly amazing, thank you!
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 4, 2022 7:39:23 GMT -5
Why does this married man want to marry you? What's the advantage? That's really the kind of fantasy one stereotypically expects of the lady in these love squares.
I am not sure I understand your fantasy comment. I would love it if you elaborate. While I wish this was fantasy, I can assure you that it is very real. This man cares for me at an undeniable level. Here is an example, he got rid of a dead rat for me. (I am embarrassed to have a rodent problem but it's real life.) He does things for me... things that people only do in a real relationship (yes this includes plenty of sex). The fantasy of two lovers who chose wrong, have now found each other, and will be happily ever after. That, too, may be very real. There may be solid grounds for this fella assuming things are gonna work really well for you both. How long has it been. Have you fought well through a first few disagreements? Or is he drunk on NRE? Not sure your dynamic and don't mean to be a Debbie Downer here. When two divorces are on the line, a nosy bystander can get a bit nosier. You speak of getting on a ride. You want to. Looks scary. No seat belts. Likely fine. The amusement park hasn't been closed. There's no headlines in the paper about anyone dying on it. What would falling out of the car be? Divorce to your husband? Divorce to him and new guy not marrying you and staying put with his Mrs.? His divorcing and you staying put? Both divorcing and your relationship falling apart? Is your stable, sexless marriage the seat belt you don't see? Is the seat belt on the marry-go-round you've been riding in plain sight, even though there's nothing scary or exciting about it? The roller coaster with no precautions looks great, but.... I'd like to hear (with no right to) about why his exit appeals to him. Why does the ride not scare him too? Has he noticed there are no seat belts? Why is this easier for him? Should it be? I'd likely help a neighbor clean out a dead rat if she asked. That's not as high a bar as you seem to think. Either that or I'm unusually unsqueamish and don't know it. A regular, talented lover? Oh, yeah, a whole lot more I'd do. Well, maybe not that.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Feb 4, 2022 23:26:07 GMT -5
Why does this married man want to marry you? What's the advantage? That's really the kind of fantasy one stereotypically expects of the lady in these love squares.
I am not sure I understand your fantasy comment. I would love it if you elaborate. While I wish this was fantasy, I can assure you that it is very real. This man cares for me at an undeniable level. Here is an example, he got rid of a dead rat for me. (I am embarrassed to have a rodent problem but it's real life.) He does things for me... things that people only do in a real relationship (yes this includes plenty of sex). The fantasy of two lovers who chose wrong, have now found each other, and will be happily ever after. That, too, may be very real. There may be solid grounds for this fella assuming things are gonna work really well for you both. How long has it been. Have you fought well through a first few disagreements? Or is he drunk on NRE? Not sure your dynamic and don't mean to be a Debbie Downer here. When two divorces are on the line, a nosy bystander can get a bit nosier. You speak of getting on a ride. You want to. Looks scary. No seat belts. Likely fine. The amusement park hasn't been closed. There's no headlines in the paper about anyone dying on it. What would falling out of the car be? Divorce to your husband? Divorce to him and new guy not marrying you and staying put with his Mrs.? His divorcing and you staying put? Both divorcing and your relationship falling apart? Is your stable, sexless marriage the seat belt you don't see? Is the seat belt on the marry-go-round you've been riding, even though there's nothing scary or exciting about it? The roller coaster with no precautions looks great, but.... I'd like to hear (with no right to) about why his exit appeals to him. Why does the ride not scare him too? Has he noticed there are no seat belts? Why is this easier for him? Should it be? I'd likely help a neighbor clean out a dead rat if she asked. That's not as high a bar as you seem to think. Either that or I'm unusually unsqueamish and don't know it. A regular, talented lover? Oh, yeah, a whole lot more I'd do. Well, maybe not that. Now I really wish I was typing this on the computer rather than always looking on my phone. Sadly my phone seems the most private these days. You gave me a lot to think about and when were making these brief conversations is hard to cover everything. I keep thinking about the part where you said is my sexless marriage my seatbelt and quite frankly I think that is correct it has been my safety net for a long time. But I find myself at an interesting Crossroads if my husband is getting dementia like his mother I'm nearing the window of time where he is either going to drag my life down with his to the bottom before he ends up going into a home of some sort or I can save parts of my life and that sounds really terrible it's definitely not the in sickness and health that we quoted to each other although this Bells don't seem to include sex anyone ever notice that? Maybe that's supposed to be the chairs part I don't know. I've been thinking on all the posts a lot lately and I have to conclude that regardless of this other person I feel confident that I can find a new partner. I feel less confident about being able to survive and pay for my life. Having raced to brilliant Sons homeschooled them and all that I gave children a brilliant foundation and myself know where to go forward from. At one point in time I was going to the university to finish up a bachelor's degree. I had a conversation with my husband and I confronted him and said I feel like you are sabotaging my efforts to go to college she looked me Square in the eye and said that's because I am. I felt like I had been punched they are completely left me and somehow I found the wherewithal to ask him why. He said everybody knows you only go to college to meet a mate. To tell you the truth I was so shocked and then later I was so resentful and angry that are two boy children can go to college and are expected to make a life for themselves but me what being a woman being lesser than somehow does not deserve to go to college? This is one example of things that have created such deep-seated resentment in me. But in order to get through the day today I have to let that stuff go and it's hard to keep enough of it so that you don't forget this person in your life will betray you at a level you can't imagine. I'm not trying to get on a side topic here it's all just sort of jumbled in my mind forgive me. My point is regardless of the AP life status, I have to try to make some choices that are good for myself and living here waiting to die is not a healthy life choice for me even though I could do it. The AP has given me confidence helped me believe in myself again. When I can't tell what's up from down because I've been gas-lit so much that I don't even know what to believe is true in my own life I don't even know if I can trust my own judgment, the AP helps me find some balance and strength that I can't seem to find myself. So whether it's long-term or just for now I need that. I see why counseling is so important and perhaps that is an option I need to consider more heavily. I wonder though when you have a crazy person you live with how easy is it to escape to go to counseling appointments. How are people handling that do they say truthfully they're going to counseling do they make things up disguise were there going? I get accused of being secretive all the time by my husband but it's because he's super controlling and if I say I'm going to the store he says what for and I answer because I think I'm in a normal conversation and then he decides that I don't need to go to the store for that. My life has been like that for 20 years. I had quite the giggle at your falling out of the car comment as when I was a girl I did fall out of the car and it was a pretty big deal. The funny thing is I was really afraid of telling my mother I freaked out more about telling my mom and losing my shoe than anything else. I kept telling this lady I was with then I was going to get in trouble and I didn't want to tell my mom. Anyways crazy Side Story. However maybe it speaks to my state of mind when in crisis I'm so busy not wanting to get in trouble that I don't consider the fact thank f****** God I'm okay? When you're trained this way from verse it's hard to switch gears. I feel like I was taught to be invisible and I know how to do that really well and that does not serve me in this current situation.
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Post by dallasgia on Feb 6, 2022 16:12:21 GMT -5
SweetPlumeria
You may as well be writing about my life. You & I are surely soul sisters.
Having a side piece muddies the water at the same time it props you up. It’s the propping that you need so much now while living in prison that once you get out … maybe you will realize you no longer need or want. I dunno. I feel like IF I ever get the hell out of my mess I’m going to need to be alone a good while just to heal and not have even the slightest amount of BS to put up with. Also, the sex - you have been starved for so long and now finally have a companion and intimate mate but one that is known only to you - you guys have to keep it secret so that shields you both from having any outside irritations or conflict surrounding family, schedules, finances, etc. Makes the relationship a touch easier than real life coupling. It’s exceedingly difficult to make clear decisions based on only yourself and what’s best for you - when you have AP influences so you have to use caution. Please keep us updated. I am so thankful for this group.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Feb 7, 2022 2:30:01 GMT -5
Dallasgia, so glad you could get through all my typos. My phone is an evil assistant. I am happy to update what feels like a roller-coaster of a life. I too have become ever grateful to this group.
I am wondering for you seasoned folks how did the conversation go down? Angel Eyes suggested counseling and I am heavily considering it to help me figure out how to transition my life. I just don't know how to do it. I keep making steps but I can tell now that I backslide when I feel better. When I feel good I fear change and fear what it means for me.
My husband was gone 2 days. I was happy for 2 days. This speaks volumes to me. I need to change my life.
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 7, 2022 5:53:44 GMT -5
The fantasy of two lovers who chose wrong, have now found each other, and will be happily ever after. That, too, may be very real. There may be solid grounds for this fella assuming things are gonna work really well for you both. How long has it been. Have you fought well through a first few disagreements? Or is he drunk on NRE? Not sure your dynamic and don't mean to be a Debbie Downer here. When two divorces are on the line, a nosy bystander can get a bit nosier. You speak of getting on a ride. You want to. Looks scary. No seat belts. Likely fine. The amusement park hasn't been closed. There's no headlines in the paper about anyone dying on it. What would falling out of the car be? Divorce to your husband? Divorce to him and new guy not marrying you and staying put with his Mrs.? His divorcing and you staying put? Both divorcing and your relationship falling apart? Is your stable, sexless marriage the seat belt you don't see? Is the seat belt on the marry-go-round you've been riding, even though there's nothing scary or exciting about it? The roller coaster with no precautions looks great, but.... I'd like to hear (with no right to) about why his exit appeals to him. Why does the ride not scare him too? Has he noticed there are no seat belts? Why is this easier for him? Should it be? ... I find myself at an interesting Crossroads if my husband is getting dementia like his mother I'm nearing the window of time where he is either going to drag my life down with his to the bottom before he ends up going into a home of some sort or I can save parts of my life and that sounds really terrible it's definitely not the in sickness and health that we quoted to each other, although this Bells don't seem to include sex anyone ever notice that? Maybe that's supposed to be the chairs part I don't know. I've been thinking on all the posts a lot lately and I have to conclude that regardless of this other person I feel confident that I can find a new partner. ...At one point in time I was going to the university to finish up a bachelor's degree. I had a conversation with my husband and I confronted him and said I feel like you are sabotaging my efforts to go to college. He looked me square in the eye and said "That's because I am....everybody knows you only go to college to meet a mate."... our two boy children can go to college and are expected to make a life for themselves but me (what being a woman) being lesser-than somehow does not deserve to go to college? My point is regardless of the AP life status, I have to try to make some choices that are good for myself and living here waiting to die is not a healthy life choice for me even though I could do it. The AP has given me confidence; helped me believe in myself again. When I can't tell what's up from down because I've been gas-lit so much that I don't even know what to believe is true in my own life. I don't even know if I can trust my own judgment, the AP helps me find some balance and strength that I can't seem to find myself. So whether it's long-term or just for now I need that. I see why counseling is so important and perhaps that is an option I need to consider more heavily. I wonder, though, when you have a crazy person you live with, how easy is it to escape to go to counseling appointments? How are people handling that do they say truthfully they're going to counseling do they make things up disguise were they're going? I get accused of being secretive all the time by my husband but it's because he's super controlling and if I say I'm going to the store he says what for and I answer because I think I'm in a normal conversation and then he decides that I don't need to go to the store for that. My life has been like that for 20 years. I had quite the giggle at your falling out of the car comment as when I was a girl I did fall out of the car and it was a pretty big deal. The funny thing is I was really afraid of telling my mother I freaked out more about telling my mom and losing my shoe than anything else. I kept telling this lady I was with then I was going to get in trouble and I didn't want to tell my mom. Anyways crazy Side Story. However maybe it speaks to my state of mind when in crisis I'm so busy not wanting to get in trouble that I don't consider the fact: "Thank f****** God I'm okay?" When you're trained this way from verse it's hard to switch gears. I feel like I was taught to be invisible and I know how to do that really well and that does not serve me in this current situation. If you've not seen it, you might have a look at " Away From Her", a movie about marital issues arising from dementia/Alzheimer's. (Whoa, look at that! It's free on Youtube as of this writing, YMMV) Bells and Chairs? Sorry. Never run across that. Stand-ins for Happiness and Support? Too bad you didn't say, "Damn, there must be a cheaper way for <boys' names> to find wives." In America, women now constitute a majority of PhDs. Shouldn't they just kind of give up on their education charade by then? Really, ladies, give it a rest. I appreciate his honesty in admitting his fear. How sweet of him to have such confidence in your wooing capability. A very frustrating compliment, but both of you are right. You'd land a new fella if you want. This sabotage makes it understandable why such a thing is under consideration. The irony meter has red-lined. Your personal mental inventory sounds marvelous. You may find once you come out the other side, you'll be impatient with your husband's silly 1950's patriarchal nonsense, but less angry. The gas-lighting works so well because you count on him for opinions of yourself. You're getting alternative feedback from AP, and you'll be able to integrate it to come up with a more objective identity for yourself (not flawless, I'm unsure of exactly who I am, but self-confidence is not one of my challenges. Kind of the opposite. I rush headlong into things) When folks talk here about opening marriages, it's often suggested to tell your refuser it's happening, not to discuss it or ask. If they want to stay closed, they'll meet demands. Going to therapy (I'm not calling it counseling. You're tearing down some mental walls here, not seeking guidance.) is the cornerstone of the rest, if you want to go. If he thinks only crazy people go to therapy, that's hardly surprising to the guy who thinks women only earn MRS degrees. You can explain (planning in advance perhaps) the things about your life making you unacceptably unhappy and what needs to change. You're seeking help making these changes happen, or accepting them as they are. You've been trying, on your own, for years. It's taking too long and now you're seeking some help to make it faster. The advantage here is the husband won't be thinking the therapy is "changing" you and the therapist is the enemy. The problems were there first. It's a common mistake that the misguided companion/relative/spouse never gets past, nor learns form. It gives them someone to blame and prevents reflection of their role. It does them no favors. Or, maybe he'd talk you out of it and you should text him from the car on your way to the first appointment. You've spoken of his controlling nature, though. Maybe I'm suggesting escalation in an environment where you'd not be able to pursue remedies. He may have the capacity to block you in every way. That could be demoralizing. You know far better than I. You've said you depend on him and financial considerations are strong. Building a network of support to hold you up for the time when you're ready to insist on the right to improve your life into one you like better, and he pulls resources away in an attempt to save his marriage at the expense of your self-fulfillment. (fear makes you do foolish things) It strikes me as important that you be able to continue therapy despite any wish that you don't. (as long as it stays valuable) Yeah, you've got the people-pleaser thing bad. If you're always concerned about what others want from you, you don't have much reason to ask yourself what you want for yourself. It takes practice. That's the bedrock of the giving side of co-dependence. What whimsical nonsense thing would you like to step out of the house to do? Coffee with a friend? A mani/pedi? Antiquing? Day trip to the museum/mountains/zoo/concert/shaved ice stand? Do you have a list? Does it boggle your mind at the thought of making one? So often here at ILIAM, it's said that prepping for breakup is a matter of acting single. If you were single tomorrow, it might be a struggle handling it. Perhaps a simple, reasonable path is to decide what you'd want your single life to look like and live it as though you already were. For you, figuring out what you want may be a very difficult simple thing.
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Post by sadkat on Feb 7, 2022 21:41:42 GMT -5
sweetplumeria : I also sought counseling to help me leave my M. In fact, when I first sat down with my therapist and she asked me why I was there, I told her "I need help getting out of my marriage". I can tell you with all honesty that I would still be in my M today had I not sought the help of a therapist. The thoughts that are swirling through your head are completely normal. I had most of those same thoughts- including "I am happier when he is gone; that should tell you something". This is not something you can conquer in a short time. It took me 9 long months to get to the point that I could convince my ex that I was serious about leaving the M. and another 5 months to actually leave. This is not easy. All you need to do is take the first step. My recommendation for that first step is to find a good therapist and make an appointment (and keep it). A good therapist will help you determine what your next step should be. Please feel free to reach out should you need any advice.
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 12, 2022 20:17:44 GMT -5
Why does this married man want to marry you? What's the advantage? That's really the kind of fantasy one stereotypically expects of the lady in these love squares.I am not sure I understand your fantasy comment. I would love it if you elaborate. While I wish this was fantasy, I can assure you that it is very real. This man cares for me at an undeniable level. Here is an example, he got rid of a dead rat for me. (I am embarrassed to have a rodent problem but it's real life.) He does things for me... things that people only do in a real relationship (yes this includes plenty of sex). [/quote]Sorry, didn't realize this had been directed at me. Better late than never? The stereotype when a person dreams of a married lover leaving their spouse in a grand epiphany that they just marrie dteh wrong person and the right one foudn them... is that a woman is peeling a husband away form the wife. But reading this a second time, the fella peeling a wife away from a husband fits perfectly with the White Knight stereotype. I'll appreciate her where her foolish husband failed to! So...meh. I was full of crap that time. Neither the first nor last time it will happen.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Dec 13, 2022 10:26:11 GMT -5
Ok, I think this actually is a strangely realistic view point as D. has said to me that he feels he married wrong and when I am upset he wishes he could fix it... So maybe your more spot on than I could have known. I appreciate the clarification.
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Post by worksforme2 on Feb 19, 2024 9:58:56 GMT -5
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kevinp
Junior Member
sex where R U
Posts: 26
Age Range: 66-70
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Post by kevinp on Apr 25, 2024 16:11:43 GMT -5
Years ago, after many years of no sex due to her medical operations etc, I cheated, then confessed, but then asked her straight up, "I need fulfilment. This is crazy". She let me explore. I was amazed but I tried, of course. She knew and was happy for me but upset for herself. (That made it hard to get it hard, etc) Only one sexual relationship lasted some months, then misunderstandings and it was off, the other woman's decision. Nothing since and it's been 12 years. The point is, what if you came right out and asked your husband if you could have a lover? Sounds simple, and it worked for me. Had it caused a huge fight I may have left and remarried. The reason I didn't is her ongoing health issues and not wanting to abandon her. That many not be an issue with others. Some husbands may be the ;jealous rage' type, some may be the 'MFM sounds like fun" type, too.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 27, 2024 8:19:12 GMT -5
Only one sexual relationship lasted some months, then misunderstandings and it was off, the other woman's decision. Nothing since and it's been 12 years. .. Were there other attempts? How'd they go? I figured if I ever needed to outsource, I might need to divorce on paper, all the while looking after Mrs. MirrorOrchid. Didn't figure enough prospects would be okay with polyamory, though I had pretty good luck during my near-miss period. There were maybe 30 women on OKcupid who were openly poly. Messaged 3, met 2, had 1 very interested when my wife reset. How'd your quest go?
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kevinp
Junior Member
sex where R U
Posts: 26
Age Range: 66-70
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Post by kevinp on May 1, 2024 21:45:02 GMT -5
Only one sexual relationship lasted some months, then misunderstandings and it was off, the other woman's decision. Nothing since and it's been 12 years. .. Were there other attempts? How'd they go? I figured if I ever needed to outsource, I might need to divorce on paper, all the while looking after Mrs. MirrorOrchid. Didn't figure enough prospects would be okay with polyamory, though I had pretty good luck during my near-miss period. There were maybe 30 women on OKcupid who were openly poly. Messaged 3, met 2, had 1 very interested when my wife reset. How'd your quest go? Not real well. My work sent me to a psychologist many years ago for depression. The psychologist suggested I have an affair. Yes really. She was a new graduate, mid 20's. So easy for her but for a guy in his 50's? It's not as if I can get a script from the doc to go get a bit. I did try and failed many times due to ED and nerves. I found contacts on adult matchmaker. I was/am damaged goods due to depression so the vicious circle continured. AS I said, one woman I did see quite a lot and it worked OK. I was and always am, the mild mannered respectible type and I think she really wanted a hung stud, a thrashing machine.
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Post by worksforme2 on May 2, 2024 6:43:07 GMT -5
Not real well. My work sent me to a psychologist many years ago for depression. The psychologist suggested I have an affair. Yes really. She was a new graduate, mid 20's. So easy for her but for a guy in his 50's? It's not as if I can get a script from the doc to go get a bit. I did try and failed many times due to ED and nerves. I found contacts on adult matchmaker. I was/am damaged goods due to depression so the vicious circle continured. AS I said, one woman I did see quite a lot and it worked OK. I was and always am, the mild mannered respectible type and I think she really wanted a hung stud, a thrashing machine. In my mid 50's I was fairly successful in getting laid, eventually settling in with a woman who became mrs. worksforme2. But in my mid 70's it has been a different story. My local has something to do with it as I live in a rural setting where cows are almost as numerous as people. But it also seems women in their 70's are just not as interested in romance. Going on rides on a really big boat with thousands of other people seems preferable to weekend getaways and sightseeing with like minded people at a B&B. Spending their time gazing at an empty ocean with intermittant stops at corporate owned tourist islands where they can shop for sunglases and beads is what seems to be their prefference. As a single male that is not for me. If i choose to experience another country and culture I want to immerse myself in the actual day to day life of the residents of that country, and visit the historical homes, building, and places that constitute what shaped the culture and thinking of its people. But I digress....Back to finding prospective partners. I'm hoping the old hunting grounds, pickup lines and techniques will eventually work for me again. So I will continue to go with what has worked in the past. Opportunity is bound to come around again.
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Post by lonelyhubby on May 2, 2024 8:39:35 GMT -5
I am still weighing my options - I turn 60 this July and just can't accept a sexless life going forward. More Marriage / sex therapy today - this is going to be discussed since she avoided discussing her issues of dryness, pelvic pain and total lack of desire with her OBGYN. Perhaps a partner for sex and physical intimacy is going to be the option, just unsure at this point. She has started kissing me on the lips, and hugging. She placed my head on her breast yesterday, so are these signs she is crawling her way back - or are they breadcrumbs?
Time will tell - but it's getting pretty hard to continue without
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