While I can't completely say for sure, I don't think she's spoken to a lawyer. Though it kind of was out of the blue, I'm starting to think that she wanted to talk after I used almost our entire tax refund for paying down debt
If you're splitting up money, are you cancelling joint credit cards? Acknowledging that you may get saddled with your wife's credit card bills anyway.
A post-nup could place her personal account debt solely on her and secure a "no alimony" clause for her as a carrot to the personal responsibility stick.
Life happens, so it's likely not a perfect solution, but maybe worthwhile. Maybe.
Second this - you are likely still on the hook to deal with her bad financial habits whether you split or not. Best case, your thesis is true and she's splitting accounts simply to hide her debt from you. But you are still on the hook for it regardless as she racks it up.
In my case, financial separation happens after physical separation, and its been a bigger hill to climb so we haven't split that for admin and financial reasons yet, even though we've been apart 7 years. We run it like a non-profit enterprise we both are partners in.
If she wants to split financially, since you are still on the hook, I'd want a post-nup and - again - a lawyer consultation to see if that even protects you. And I'd also want my own separate account and a total overhaul of household finance. One way would be for you both to have a common household account that you each make pro-rated contributions toward, to be used for groceries and household expense. And another account each for private funds. An agreement on spending and what comes from where. Does she think it's worth the bother?
Her move will be to accuse you of being a hardass. Your countermove will be to accuse her of being a hardass in provoking this by splitting and hiding funds. WHY? Then proceed on your own with legal consultation.
Either way, divorce or not - you need to talk to a family lawyer and get advice. It costs a a lot, but will still be less expensive than the alternative.
Last Edit: Mar 10, 2022 11:09:04 GMT -5 by Apocrypha
Post by northstarmom on Mar 10, 2022 11:43:01 GMT -5
apocrypha said: "Second this - you are likely still on the hook to deal with her bad financial habits whether you split or not. Best case, your thesis is true and she's splitting accounts simply to hide her debt from you. But you are still on the hook for it regardless as she racks it up."
When I consulted with a lawyer before divorcing, i learned that in my state, Florida, if one had been married at least 10 years, all assets and debts were considered joint property/responsibilities, including individual credit card debt. The exception was assets that were inherited. So, don't think that your wife's having a separate credit card means that only she would be responsible for whatever debt she's wracking up. Close your eyes to this and you may have a very nasty surprise if either of you decides to divorce.
In my jurisdiction, I learned that the family home is divided 50% , that inherited monies can remain separate and untouchable as long as they are kept in distinct accounts and never mingled (there's more, but basically), and that the tenure of spousal support obligations may change from a set period to being on the hook for a lifetime, depending on the length of the marriage. So don't assume that you can wait and see how it shakes out, or that running out the clock offers no consequence except re-entering the singles world as an older man. One could game this information to time a split to happen the day after that lifetime obligation kicks in, and then file. It would be quite a bargaining chip.
Last Edit: Mar 10, 2022 17:06:48 GMT -5 by Apocrypha
Post by ironhamster on Mar 12, 2022 6:37:31 GMT -5
"Mingling" money is an important thing to never do. This has happened before. To start a new account at a credit union, sometimes they require money in the account. Taking $5 cash to start the account then transferring $500,000 of inheritance into the account "mingles" the money, allowing the spouse to claim all of it, because that initial five dollars of marital money could be any of the other half million.
Post by greatcoastal on Mar 12, 2022 7:17:34 GMT -5
Get ready for the other side of the coin. When your W starts moving money, stocks, bonds, IRA, 401 K, children's funds, etc... out of your joint accounts (or her separate accounts) and puts it in a secret place ( a foreign account, or an account with a distant family member). Then under oath testifies when asked about the location, " I have no idea. I don't know". You can prove that it was taken (withdrawn) but the burden of proof is now on you to find "where is it now located". Be prepared and start moving money yourself. Ask these specific questions, when you get consultation from an attorney. (voice of experience)
Post by northstarmom on Mar 14, 2022 11:22:54 GMT -5
"Currently, the answer to the question "What happened?" would be some innocuous BS like "We grew apart" or "We wanted different things"
What's BS about that? I know that as my 34-year marriage evolved and as I evolved as a person, we did grow apart. Both of us had become so different that if we were to do it over, neither of us would choose to have the other as a romantic partner. There's no shame or BS in that. With modern lifespans and opportunities, I think it's unusual for couples to remain compatible for decades.
Anyway, most people are only mildly curious about other people's marriages and divorces. They are far more interested in their own lives. They may ask why one is divorcing but in reality it's just not that important to them.
Update - Sorry for the long gap between posts. Been really busy with the kids and with life. Things are no better with my marriage. Most days feel like I'm living in an alternate reality with my wife. Every interaction feels like she is working backwards from her conclusion, which is that I'm out to get her, that I'm an idiot, and that I am the cause of all her problems.
Got a few examples since I last posted. Last month she brings up the cost of soccer for two of my kids (they play for an academy) which costs a good amount of money for the year. Now mind you, we had discussed this the prior month, and the agreement was that I would pay for a small part of it since she makes more than me. After she brought it up, she angrily said, "you're gonna have to pay for half of this." I was a bit put off cause we had a prior agreement, and I told her that and said "but I'll see what I can do" and she replied, "you better." Right after that she came up to me and said "you also better not take a penny from your parents." Now, my parents aren't rich rich, but they are fairly well off and have helped us from time to time in the past. I was so put off by this because how is that any of her business? I told her that and then she ignored me like she always does. It's like she always just wants to say her piece but then never have to respond to me.
Then on her birthday, I just got her a small present because I wasn't going all out on getting her presents. When she opened it, she thanked all of my kids for the present and gave them kisses. She literally didn't even look at me or say anything to me. Mind you, the kids made their own presents for her, so it isn't even like she needed to involve them again with my present. Fast forward to today for Mother's Day and stupidly I felt obligated to get her another small gift. I said "Happy Mother's Day" and she said "Isn't this from the kids?" I said "No, it's from me" and she replied "Why? I'm not your mother." I got angry and said "I'm your husband and I can give you a gift." And then again, she just walked away and didn't even look at me.
The other day one of our toilets broke when she was still at work overnight. As soon as she got back home I went out and got the parts to fix it. I came back home, and she said angerly "These aren't the right parts, you aren't going to be able to fix it." Again, I was put off and told her that they were indeed the right parts and to stop telling me I was wrong. I proceeded to fix the toilet and was there any apology/acknowledgement that she was wrong? Of course not, she's never wrong. Now, I understand that I should be just doing these things and not looking for anything from her, but it would be nice just once to be acknowledged for anything I do right.
So this is my current life. I honestly dread when she's around, which I know is terrible but by the way she treats me, how could I not? Admittedly, I know I should be pushing back even more, but I fear what a huge blow-up could lead to, which is why I hesitate every time. One of these times though, I fear I won't hold back. I honestly cant take it much longer.
I've also been dragging my feet with seeing an attorney, but I have now reached out to a couple in my area and will be setting up an appointment soon. Can't seem to find any for a reasonable price (they are asking around $300 for an hour appointment, but I guess that's the going rate). Gonna have to bite the bullet and schedule it. I've been doing a decent amount of research online, but I need to know all the specifics for my state and need to know exactly what divorce would look like for me at this point. I feel like if I know that the option of leaving is viable, then I won't feel as hesitant to push back at her when she treats me like crap. She's gotten away with so much since I'm the "nice" guy and I'm honestly sick of being that with her.
I've said it in prior posts, but I really believe that she is pushing me towards divorce because she doesn't want to initiate it. I hate that because I know she will play the victim 100% and act like I left her and the kids and it's all my fault. But honestly, I'm starting to not care. I dream about being free from this, where I can just live my life and see people and be happy. I don't even care about getting into another relationship right away. I just want to be with friends and meet new people and have a good time doing things without her there. I've been taking care of myself and it's helped to engage with the kids more and with my hobbies. I feel like I'm a very positive person living with someone that is negative all the time. I get that she works overnight and is exhausted most of the time. I try to help when and where I can but it's always rejected by her. She wants to play victim all the time while treating me horribly. I'm done with it. I just need to be around positive people that want to get enjoyment out of life. I mean, isn't that what we all want?
Anyways, just needed to rant a bit. I will try to post when I can to give more updates.
... she is working backwards from her conclusion, which is that I'm out to get her, that I'm an idiot, and that I am the cause of all her problems.
... she brings up the cost of soccer for two of my kids..., "you're gonna have to pay for half of this." I was a bit put off cause we had a prior agreement, and I told her that and said "but I'll see what I can do" and she replied, "you better." Right after that she came up to me and said "you also better not take a penny from your parents." Now, my parents aren't rich rich, but they are fairly well off and have helped us from time to time in the past. I was so put off by this because how is that any of her business? I told her that and then she ignored me like she always does. It's like she always just wants to say her piece but then never have to respond to me.
...for Mother's Day and stupidly I felt obligated to get her another small gift....she replied "Why? I'm not your mother."
... I proceeded to fix the toilet and was there any apology/acknowledgement that she was wrong? ...
...I honestly dread when she's around, which I know is terrible but by the way she treats me, how could I not?...
I've also been dragging my feet with seeing an attorney, but I have now reached out to a couple in my area ... if I know that the option of leaving is viable, then I won't feel as hesitant to push back ...I really believe that she is pushing me towards divorce because she doesn't want to initiate it.
...I don't even care about getting into another relationship right away. I just want to be with friends and meet new people and have a good time doing things without her there. I've been taking care of myself and it's helped to engage with the kids more and with my hobbies....
Sounds like depression. My wife's depression presented as rage and hostility. Seemed to think she was better off without me.
Telling you not to allow grandparents to bring healthy recreation to their grandkids is controlling behavior at a new level. Respond to you? That would mean you'd be claiming some right to alter what she wants. Compromise? That's loser talk.
BTW, inheritances placed in joint accounts become joint property. Sounds like she doesn't want your parents money. Be sure to oblige her wishes. Keep it safe in an account solely in your name. Wouldn't want her becoming a charity case.
Peeling the thin layer away, there's only a few choices she seems to be asking demanding. Stop buying things for yourself, or get a better paying job/second job/a raise.
Of course, if you divorce, you'll be bringing more money in and paying half will be easy. It won't be coming from your parents either. She's not thinking to step two, is she?
Reneging on agreements. What a splendid dynamic she's introducing to the marriage. Is there a point to making any new ones? Again. Step two.
She's not your mother, but you love your kids and she made them possible. That's worthy of celebration. You wouldn't think that was hard to grasp. Crikey.
Acknowledging you have value undermines her desire to distance herself, for whatever reason. You mustn't prove yourself valuable. Talking herself into divorce? In a more recent post of yours on another thread, she offered a gesture of intimacy to you. Perhaps rethinking her thought of leaving you and wishing to gratify you. Is it telling she didn't offer the mutual intimacy of lovemaking? Again, she wishes no gratitude for anything you do? She is valuable to you, but not vice-versa? Was it a trap she set and you fell into? Hope not. That level of cynicism is tiresome and pointlessly self-sabotaging. The self-reassurance that she's right to destroy her reliance on you is pathetic. Does she have a replacement in mind, or has she deluded herself that you're literally worse than nothing... that single motherhood will be better. For some, that'd be true, but she has to work really really hard to work that lie into something that fits.
Yeah, no condemnation here. She's a bit insane. Wanting to hate you. Been there. Amazing how much better I became after she took medicine.
You saw a lawyer. Posted it here. days later, an unsolicited hummer. Someone has been looking at your browsing history. heh heh.
Keep it up with the outside interests, platonic friendships, and focus on the kids. That's all good stuff if things dissolve and still good if things get better. Seeing folks outside your marriage helps break co-dependency. Your wife may actually like the effect on you. Stop looking for her approval and her criticism will start to mean nothing. When her criticism is ignored, she may stop giving it. When constant reminders of her rejection stop, she may forget how unhappy she is with you. She hears herself as often as you hear from her. Funny, when I do something useful around teh house but imperfectly and my wife points out my mistake, my response is "You're welcome." My wife isn't in self-sabotage mode so it quickly dawns on her that half-assed is far better than not-at-all. Barely happens anymore. It's not fun to be an ungrateful jackass.
One other thing to keep in mind. A thorough inventory of your assets will drastically cut down on whatever fees are necessary for lawyers. It is possible you might land an amicable divorce. There's a post here about setting up a division of possessions agreement in advance, I can dig it up if you want. Propose something slightly unfair to yourself and she might be sensible enough to agree to it and the legal cost can be minimal. If your wife keeps a bit more of the booty and the lawyers get a lot less, I call that a win. You don't hate her yet.
The same inventory can be used to construct a will. Everyone should be making one of those anyway. I have not. I feel a bit the fool for that.
Hey everyone, sorry for going MIA again. Quick update - Not much has changed with my situation, though I FINALLY scheduled an appointment with an attorney. Searched for a while and found one that gives free consultations, and I'll be speaking with them in a couple of weeks. Also will be getting a separate bank account very soon.
My wife texted me a couple of weeks ago and effectively said that our relationship is over and that we need to stay together for the kids. Was really annoyed that she couldn't even speak to me face to face about it, and told her that I wish she would have spoken with me about everything earlier. I also said that it's really difficult living with someone that constantly looks down upon me, and that never admits fault. She said and I quote, "I don't need or want your opinion unless it involves the kids."
At this point I'm totally done with it. I'm exhausted with caring about it when she doesn't care at all. It's ridiculous that she also said that we need to be friendly around the kids, yet she treats me horribly with every interaction. Kind of hard to be friendly with someone who hates your guts and won't try herself.
I don't know where this is headed, but it's not good. Looking forward to my talk with the attorney as I need to figure out a path forward. Financially, it may be best to stay, but I honestly don't know how long I can last.
...She said and I quote, "I don't need or want your opinion unless it involves the kids."
When you've had a disagreement with something concerning the kids, how often does your view/recommendation prevail?
Does she have a therapist? Does she take psych meds? (in all seriousness, not joking here)
In almost all cases my view/recommendation doesn't prevail. Which is ironic that she had said that to me, because ultimately she'll do what she wants anyway. She views herself as the better parent (without directly saying it). Our biggest disagreements with the kids has to do with their independence. I tend to allow them to handle things on their own and learn from their own mistakes, where she feels like she has to make sure she's involved with them regarding most things (basically "helicopter" parenting).
She doesn't see a therapist or take any meds. She's the type of person that would view that as a weakness.