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Post by Handy on Jun 5, 2020 17:23:10 GMT -5
Ironhamster, I suggest you got screwed over financially in your divorce.
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Post by saarinista on Jun 5, 2020 21:36:42 GMT -5
Flyingsolo, didn't you hear, a Wife that stays home works more than the H when he has a job that produces an income. One of Gloria Steinem's friends said so, so it must be true. :eye roll:
I am not saying your W has it easy. Home schooling sounds like a lot of work.
Not to be overly sensitive, but please don't blame real feminists like me for encouraging women to stay home and do nothing. It's one thing if they're actually WORKING hard at homeschooling, (though frankly, we pay taxes for schools with real teachers to do the academics as well as socioculturally acclimating, kids but I get that's a sensitive topic) but some women just end up doing nothing useful after the kids are grown. Just sayin.. It's okay if they're helpful wives but if they're not, it's bad! 😁 In that vein, let me take this opportunity to recommend watching the miniseries "Mrs America" on FX/Hulu for those of you who have it. It's sort of documentary dramatization of the events surrounding the attempted passage of the Equal Rights Amendment back in the 1970s. Cate Blanchett plays Phyllis Schlafly who (as those of you old enough and or politically inclined will remember) was a crafty, smart and determined conservative opponent of the ERA. One of her biggest and most effective arguments against passing the ERA was that it would hurt women in divorce settlements by devaluing their time as child carers and legitimate housewives. That succeeded in scaring and turning many women against the ERA which deterred it from being ratified and implemented. Feminists/ liberals on the other hand including Gloria Steinem of course, were not as concerned about divorce laws. We wanted jobs and educations. And this particular feminist here (ME! ) also wanted to have contraception available so she could get laid without needing an abortion. (I'm happy to say I never did need one, thank God.) Editorial comment : These days, too many women want jobs/income but not financial or household responaibilities. In other words they want to have their cake and eat it too. Folks, I'm here to say that's not real feminism-especially if you're a sexual refuser! No fair. |
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Post by Handy on Jun 5, 2020 21:56:24 GMT -5
Saarinista
Not to be overly sensitive, but please don't blame real feminists like me for encouraging women to stay home and do nothing. Saarinista I had no intention to blame you for anything. I was poking fun at the idea of once the kids were out of the house the W could continue to not work. I like almost all of your ideas and posts so I almost always agree with your ideas. To be truthful, I only know the name of Gloria Steinem and not much about what she promoted (what was good for women) or what she said was detrimental for women.
I read several articles that stated getting more women in the workforce lowered wages for men and with people wanting more things, personal debt increased, which lead to more women working to the point fewer households had stay at hone moms.
BTW my neighbor had 4 kids and his W home schools. I don't think she has it easy. I know I would rather have my kids in school and volunteer at the school they attended, rather than home school my kids.
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Post by Handy on Jun 5, 2020 22:55:23 GMT -5
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 5, 2020 22:58:12 GMT -5
ironhamster, thanks for adding the details in full color. That sounds painful. I forget the timing - you finalized before 2020, right? The terms haven’t changed much, but for any decrees after Jan 1 you also have to pay the income taxes on all those expenses - the recipient doesn’t. Also, for those figures you’d been married for 25 years?
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 5, 2020 23:28:16 GMT -5
ironhamster, thanks for adding the details in full color. That sounds painful. I forget the timing - you finalized before 2020, right? The terms haven’t changed much, but for any decrees after Jan 1 you also have to pay the income taxes on all those expenses - the recipient doesn’t. Also, for those figures you’d been married for 25 years? Correct, DryCreek. But, it was October of 2018, and it was 2019 that the tax laws changed. Since then, the percentages of the legalized theft calculations have changed twice in Illinois. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 5, 2020 23:31:01 GMT -5
A couple points for the record...
This math happens whether or not the spouse works. It happens due to a disparity in income, but it’s exacerbated by not being in the work force and the idea that the SAH spouse sacrificed an equally lucrative career.
I’m not out to disparage stay-at-home parents; I actually think it leads to better outcomes for the kids. But I also think the bar is set too high and too long for what should be transitional spousal support instead of a permanent entitlement.
It sucks that being a reliable provider can create a permanent entitlement way beyond a 50:50 asset split. And preventing this might require compromising what you think is best for the kids. (Pre-nuptial agreements aren’t bullet-proof either, as they’ve been overturned on the argument that they were signed under duress as a condition of marriage. Though I’m pretty sure that’s the whole idea...)
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Post by saarinista on Jun 6, 2020 0:44:10 GMT -5
Handy hey, no worries. I didnt take personal offense to your saying Gloria Steinem thought housework wasn't valued highly in divorce settlements (or whatever exactly it was you said.) I just wanted to note that the ACTUAL feminists I've known through working for women's reproductive health orgs and various political. causes are out there working for money and contributing financially to their marriages, unlike many of the refusers profiled on this site who INDICATE they are feminists but in reality are basically moochers.
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Post by isthisit on Jun 6, 2020 1:43:49 GMT -5
A couple points for the record... it’s exacerbated by not being in the work force and the idea that the SAH spouse sacrificed an equally lucrative career. Oh sure, that was definitely going to happen 🙄. Here is a newsflash for the US Family Court system.... it is perfectly possible for both genders to raise children and combine this with a career. Sorry, it’s just bone idle and riding the gravy train. I apologise if that offends anyone but that’s the truth of it. I also struggle to see how having one parent contribute nothing whatsoever to society is better for children. |
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Post by baza on Jun 6, 2020 1:54:46 GMT -5
The consistent point raised in this group is to "see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you".
It is not to "debate the fairness or otherwise of the divorce laws in your jurisdiction".
It is to establish the facts applicable in your jurisdiction so you can make a fully informed choice.
The facts may or may not be "fair" in your opinion, but they are what they are, and you need to know them.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 6, 2020 2:19:14 GMT -5
The facts may or may not be "fair" in your opinion, but they are what they are, and you need to know them. True. The facts will vary by jurisdiction and personal circumstance, and local guidance Is required. My original point was that it truly can be a very burdensome situation in some cases, and not merely a lifestyle inconvenience. Or, it can also be very simple split of assets. Two couples in similar situations can have very different outcomes if just one or two details are different. Do see a lawyer; all it usually costs is your time. |
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Post by baza on Jun 6, 2020 2:50:04 GMT -5
The facts may or may not be "fair" in your opinion, but they are what they are, and you need to know them. True. The facts will vary by jurisdiction and personal circumstance, and local guidance Is required. My original point was that it truly can be a very burdensome situation in some cases, and not merely a lifestyle inconvenience. Or, it can also be very simple split of assets. Two couples in similar situations can have very different outcomes if just one or two details are different. Do see a lawyer; all it usually costs is your time. You are on the money there DryCreek . In my jurisdiction the spouses usually work something out under the guidance of their respective layers (80% of the time) About 20% of the time the spouses end up in court and a Judge sorts it out for them. Expensive and unpredictable. |
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Post by frednsa on Jun 13, 2020 11:51:44 GMT -5
Saarinista
DryCreek That's why I can't understand why any man marries a non working woman. Old school said the man worked and the woman took care of the home and children. Later it became, if the woman worked her income was hers to do with as SHE saw fit. Her working meant the H didn't have to pay for all of her monetary needs/wants. That's only true if men allow it. Don't put up with shit! I realize things change and we learn many lessons too late but.... Sadly I think maybe refuser women are more likely to be financial slackers too. I honestly think all the men on this forum should realize that plenty of women just stay married for money. If your wife won't fuck you but she claims to be working on it.... Be suspicious. And don't automatically blame it in menopause, either. If there's no effort there, she's a slacker. i worked, she stayed home and did wonderfully at caring for our 3 kids. always wanted to work and did so on part time basis when youngest went to school. was treasured by each of her casual employers. took more serious employment as our kids entered college - that helped and relieved some of my "pressure". money was ALWAYS pooled and spent carefully with major purchases always agreed upon. no regrets............EXCEPT.........she has been incapable of being aroused for 50+ years. (since day one). i think she always knew this but refused to face it as she does with most "negative" aspects of life. did she "conceal"  who knows ? it STILL gives me great depressive episodes and anti dep's just lead to my reduction in libido which adds to depression..........getting it ? feel like i'm in a hole........ |
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Post by saarinista on Jun 13, 2020 13:23:43 GMT -5
frednsa I'm glad your refuser is financially responsible. That makes your situation easier to get out of if you choose to do so.
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Post by snowman12345 on Aug 1, 2020 22:50:22 GMT -5
Hi all, for those that remember me I am still alive and still in this paradise called marriage.
Covid-19, a near death experience, and retirement have all occurred since I last visited with you.
I remain in my SM due to my own choosing - Afraid of loneliness? - no.
Afraid of financial disaster? - no.
At the core I stay because my kids and grandkids need me to. If I left my wife would turn even more bitter than she is and my family would suffer for it.
Yes, I am still with my AP of 7 or 8 years. She keeps me sane.
I am sure it will be a great relief to you all that my sense of humor is intact, even after a car accident jarred my noggin pretty good.
I would say I was glad some of you are still hanging around, but no one wants to be in our club - so I can't be too happy about that.
Cheers!
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who knows ? it STILL gives me great depressive episodes and anti dep's just lead to my reduction in libido which adds to depression..........getting it ? feel like i'm in a hole........
