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Post by jamesbonding on Aug 2, 2018 6:08:09 GMT -5
My marriage has been low-sex most of the time, and NO sex for 7 years. Check out www.reuniting.info/blogs/james-bonding/how-recover-sexless-marriage for my story of how I recovered from the no-sex part, and also improved the low-sex part. In a nutshell: * 20+ years of low-sex marriage (sex maybe once a week or every 10 days, not "sexless" but not very satisfactory to me). * 7 years of NO sex or sleeping together, and a lot of hostility from my wife toward me. * With no end in sight to the sexlessness, and the youngest kid approaching 18, I told my wife that I was planning to divorce, and started taking action (ordered an appraisal in order to prepare to sell the house). * Told my wife I was going to visit another woman and did so for two weeks. (Had a wonderful time, great confidence booster.) * After returning from the visit, I continued to plan for divorce. * Two months later, my wife started sleeping with me and having sex with me again. I think the key to her changing her behavior was that she wanted to keep the marriage together (for financial stability and to avoid the upheaval of divorce), more than she wanted to avoid sex. * In the 8 years since then, home life has been peaceful and pleasant, probably even better than the first 20 years. * In these 8 years, sex is still about once per 10 days on average. Still has not been very satisfactory to me. * Two years ago I let my wife know that I was willing to divorce because of the low sex situation. Sex got a lot more frequent for a few months. (Read the story at the link above.) But then the frequency returned to the default once per 10 days. * In July 2018, got really unhappy with the sex frequency and determined to focus some effort on fixing it. Got a referral from a friend for a divorce lawyer so I could see how a divorce would go. Tried to call the lawyer, but the number was no longer in service. * Asked my wife in a non-threatening way if she wanted a divorce (since she didn't seem to like sleeping with me and having sex with me). It was a way of letting her know that I was unhappy with the marriage and that I was still willing to divorce. She said she was still committed to keeping the marriage together. * Sex 5 times in last half of August. * Sex 20 times in September, sometimes twice in one day! That's probably the one-month record for my entire marriage! A lot of that initiated by her! I asked her what changed, she said she wants us to have a sweet marriage for the rest of our lives. * Sex 9 times in October. A pretty obvious drop in frequency, to once per 3 days. * Sex 9 times in November. No sex for first 2 weeks due to her back ache, but later we had sex 3 times in one day, partly initiated by her! Sex once per 3 days is probably the minimum that I could be satisfied with. I don't have a desperate physical craving for sex if I go longer than 3 days. However, due to my long history of sex starvation, I do feel anxious when we go longer than 2 days with no definite appointment for our next sex date. I still feel like I have to be vigilant and ask when our next date will be, when we go longer than 2 days. I don't feel like I can relax and put my mind fully on other things in my life, while I'm still feeling anxious about the sex frequency. That anxiety is probably what impels me to spend so much time following the ILIASM and Reuniting forums. Unfortunately it will probably take many months or maybe years of adequately-frequent sex before I stop worrying about when the next sex date will be. I look forward to the day when I don't worry about when the next sex date will be, any more than I worry about when my next meal will be! Other than that slight anxiety about sex frequency when we go too long without sex, I feel pretty good about our marriage, and am willing to continue. As long as things continue as they are now, I'm not making any plans to outsource or divorce. |
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Post by baza on Aug 2, 2018 22:24:21 GMT -5
Well, there ya go. First post, and a claimed turnaround. That'll make you #6 or thereabouts Brother jamesbonding . 6 out of 1,212 - or about 00.50% - or about 1 in 202. |
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Post by jamesbonding on Oct 25, 2018 0:43:53 GMT -5
I invite others who have turned their marriages around to post on this thread, so we can have all the turnaround stories in one thread. This could be a resource for others who want to go for a turnaround. What were the key actions you took that enabled the turnaround? What was the aftermath? How do you feel about your marriage situation now?
I'd also welcome people who are partway into a turnaround but not yet sure it will last (e.g. @shynjdude), and people who have made other major turnarounds in their marriages (such as greatly increasing sex frequency, or turning a hostile relationship into a pleasant one) to post a summary here.
If your situation changes, you can always come back and edit your summary.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 25, 2018 4:33:07 GMT -5
I have been with my partner for a year and a half now and I am only just now at the point where I no longer feel anxious about frequency. Of course, we are having a lot of sex still - it is less frequent than when we first got together, naturally. But we were once at twice a day and now we are at less than once a day on average. I feel that I would not be happy with less than 3 or 4 times per week (at this stage in my life and relationship). But I used to feel anxious if we even missed one day. I realise that Im now in a relationship that isn't based on sex sparsity - and this is a relationship where we have never had sex sparsity or any kind of problem - even when I took a week off PIV sex because of painful yeast infection - we were still sexually engaged on a daily basis.
Just saying it can take a long time to recover from sparsity anxiety even when there is no history of problems.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 25, 2018 8:15:33 GMT -5
Jamesbonding are you now getting mutually enjoyable sex that your wife fully participates on or are you getting starfish sex? If you are getting mutually enjoyable sex do you know why your wife avoided sex for so long?
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Post by jamesbonding on Oct 25, 2018 12:41:59 GMT -5
Jamesbonding are you now getting mutually enjoyable sex that your wife fully participates on or are you getting starfish sex? If you are getting mutually enjoyable sex do you know why your wife avoided sex for so long? Unfortunately it's almost always starfish sex. The first few weeks of our marriage, last month (September), and a very few other times are exceptions where she initiated and seemed to enjoy sex. Sometimes, during the day, she will initiate by saying we can have sex at some future time. I guess that happens when she is feeling good in general, is not tired, and is feeling generous toward me. But often, when the time comes, she will say she is tired (after staying up until 3AM watching soap operas, news shows and health shows on TV or on her computer!) and postpone the date to another day, or not even set another day. I think the main problem is just that she has a low libido. Soap operas and news shows are more interesting than sex! Her love language is not physical touch or quality time, so she doesn't even get any enjoyment from cuddling or sleeping together. With that mindset, it's hard for her to understand why sex, cuddling, and sleeping together are so important to me. I do think she is starting to "get it", though, which might explain the more frequent sex in recent months, and gives me hope that the more frequent sex will continue (I might have to keep reminding her). The staying up late has been going on for the last 8 years, and continues even now. She says she does it because she can't get to sleep if she goes to bed earlier, but I think it's mostly a way for her to avoid cuddling and sex with me. Edit: I just want to amend my answer and say that describing the sex with my wife as "starfish sex" was probably too harsh. Especially in contrast with some other members' descriptions of starfish sex that sound really horrible and degrading. "Passive" and "unenthusiastic" on her part might be a more accurate description. She does participate by changing positions or squeezing her vaginal muscles rhythmically (giving me a nice penis massage) if I ask. She rarely seems to enjoy sex, and physical touch isn't one of her love languages. I'm pretty sure she would be fine with never having sex again for the rest of her life. She has no need for physical touch, so my need for physical touch (e.g. snuggling) is a complete mystery to her. In recent years she has some body aches which makes sex and cuddling somewhat uncomfortable and even less desired, but the disinterest in sex and cuddling went back long before the body aches. On the positive side: She has no compunctions about saying "No" to sex... so when she says "yes," I interpret that to mean that she's OK with it, and whatever discomfort she might have is bearable. Sometimes she'll even initiate sex, which makes me very happy! I think she agrees to sex to keep me happy and keep me in the marriage. I don't think she really loves me, but she cares for me and is friendly toward me most of the time. So I accept the sex as a gift, as an example of her being thoughtful, considerate, and caring for me. I enjoy the sex, and feel happy and grateful during and for a few days after. |
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 25, 2018 14:12:11 GMT -5
"Unfortunately it's almost always starfish sex. The first few weeks of our marriage, last month (September), and a very few other times are exceptions where she initiated and seemed to enjoy sex."
You're getting sex, but the kind of sex that many people would find unsatisfactory and depressing. When many people here talk about wanting their sex lives to change, they don't just mean that they want their partner to start having sex with them, they want their partner to sexually desire them and be enthusiastic about having sex with them. Unfortunately, people can't control whether they sexually desire another person. What you're getting is probably the best your partner can offer you. Still, it sounds unfulfilling, and i wonder how long she will be able to force herself to continue having sex with you.
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Post by h on Oct 25, 2018 14:15:10 GMT -5
Jamesbonding are you now getting mutually enjoyable sex that your wife fully participates on or are you getting starfish sex? If you are getting mutually enjoyable sex do you know why your wife avoided sex for so long? Unfortunately it's almost always starfish sex. The first few weeks of our marriage, last month (September), and a very few other times are exceptions where she initiated and seemed to enjoy sex. Sometimes, during the day, she will initiate by saying we can have sex at some future time. I guess that happens when she is feeling good in general, is not tired, and is feeling generous toward me. But often, when the time comes, she will say she is tired (after staying up until 3AM watching soap operas, news shows and health shows on TV or on her computer!) and postpone the date to another day, or not even set another day. I think the main problem is just that she has a low libido. Soap operas and news shows are more interesting than sex! Her love language is not physical touch or quality time, so she doesn't even get any enjoyment from cuddling or sleeping together. With that mindset, it's hard for her to understand why sex, cuddling, and sleeping together are so important to me. I do think she is starting to "get it", though, which might explain the more frequent sex in recent months, and gives me hope that the more frequent sex will continue (I might have to keep reminding her). The staying up late has been going on for the last 8 years, and continues even now. She says she does it because she can't get to sleep if she goes to bed earlier, but I think it's mostly a way for her to avoid cuddling and sex with me. Turning things around means something different to me. If my W had sex with me daily but it was nearly always starfish sex, I wouldn't consider that a turn around. I won't accept starfish sex anymore. If she doesn't participate then I'm not interested anymore. Sex under those conditions makes me feel worse than no sex. I'd rather invest in a blow up doll... |
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Post by Handy on Oct 25, 2018 16:09:43 GMT -5
Jamesbonding
She says she does it because she can't get to sleep if she goes to bed earlier, but I think it's mostly a way for her to avoid cuddling and sex with me.
I stay up late a lot of times because I am often frustrated of feel like I am missing something. It could be your W is staying up late because of similar reasons and not about avoiding sex and cuddling.
Does your W seem satisfied with her life? Her answer might might lead to some understandings so ask her.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 25, 2018 16:16:38 GMT -5
"Jamesbonding
She says she does it because she can't get to sleep if she goes to bed earlier, but I think it's mostly a way for her to avoid cuddling and sex with me."
Since the sex you get is starfish sex on her part, i think you're right about why she stays up late. I'm wondering why you still choose to fuck her. i agree with the poster who suggested a blowup doll would be more enjoyable than having sex with a woman who obviously isn't enjoying it or interested in it. When I got roll over and poke her sex from my refuser ex, it was worse than having no sex at all. I felt worse afterward --empty -- not fulfilled and loved.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 26, 2018 8:28:43 GMT -5
I’d suggest when she says we can have sex later, that you go for daytime sex right then - or activities. Right then is when she has energy, and seems to be in the “right” mindset to enjoy it.
For me too - starfish sex in any quantity is not my preference. I’ll even be happy with once weekly, so long as it’s quality and we have some other sexual activity (BJ, even heavy petting) throughout other days.
It’s not about PIV, so much, for me as it is the connection that is being expressed. I need to FEEL loved for it to count.
But good for you that you found the right way to get her on-board for trying. That’s more than I ever did with my Ex.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 10:13:57 GMT -5
I'm reluctant to respond here because it is still to early to tell. We are both all in but we are scared shitless that something will mess it up. And we are still hurting each other as we try to heal, albeit certainly not on purpose. Briefly, I've described in far more detail in my "Screwed" thread, the turnaround started when I said I was done and wanted a divorce. I agreed to a six month wait for her to have some medical procedures done. As we went into a waiting limbo, we agreed to start doing nothing but hugging and kissing to help avoid blowups and an early war. Things progressed from there without any intention. But what happened simultaneously was my fear of her disappeared as I was ready to leave, and I would say for the first time in the marriage exactly how I felt. Instead of pushing her away, she appreciates the honesty, as well as my questioning her about things I found hard to believe in her words - she wanted to explain them to me because she hated the idea of being considered untruthful and much preferred I challenge her than just quietly assume she was full of it. The sex came, better and more frequent than ever and averaging once a day, for a couple of months. Then some real life stuff interrupted it (trips, illnesses - I just caught a cold yesterday and we were planning a romantic evening and weekend that just blew up.) But our honest conversations continued, and still continue. Both of us are seeing that old actions can trigger old reactions but now we are trying to be more aware and more understanding; I am working on stopping my brain from going to bad places because my visceral response to something she says or does is rarely accurately reflecting reality. She has done a remarkable job of understanding my pain and why I outsourced, and how her actions contributed to an environment where I would want to do that. I am not as advanced as her in understanding the depth of the pain that came from me, but I'm getting a lot closer. Just yesterday, after reading workingonit's latest update and getting angry over how her H was acting, it hit me that for much of the marriage I acted like he is now in many ways and my wife had been telling me this for years - and I didn't get it. I feel like absolute shit. I did tell her last night how bad I felt. I don't think I have completely "gotten it" yet. I know I don't want to ever, ever be that person again. Just like she doesn't ever want to be that old person to me again. Takeaways? Again, a work in progress, but being direct and honest (yet kind) is by far the biggest and most important change we have made. Expecting that your partner will figure out why you are acting upset without you being clear is a recipe for disaster - they will assume you are a jerk, not that they wronged you. Being able to look hard at yourself and your own shortcomings, and your role in the marriage going off the rails, is important. Getting back to the point of where you assume the best and not the worst of your partner (this is all assuming that he or she is truly not an evil or seriously damaged person.) And, as I recently noted, the willingness to blow up the marriage is pretty much the only thing that will get a spouse's attention. Even with all of this, obviously some people are incompatible, and I have no illusions that too many people can really turn it around. I don't know if my wife and I can. But this time, I know we are both on the same page for once, and we are not willing to let either of us regress. |
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Post by nyctos on Oct 26, 2018 10:37:38 GMT -5
*sigh*
People talk about "low sex marriages" and then I find out they mean something like once a week.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 26, 2018 11:14:23 GMT -5
*sigh* People talk about "low sex marriages" and then I find out they mean something like once a week. I have had the same thought. It makes me stay away from the deadbedrooms reddit. That would be like an orgy to my sex starved self |
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 26, 2018 11:46:05 GMT -5
The quoted post is so well written. @shynjdude you probably already know Im a big fan of you sharing your insights from first hand experience. At least from a male perspective, the last 2 paragraphs alone are so full of truth bombs it deserves to be read over and over until internalized. Acknowledging and coming to terms with your role in a dysfunctional marriage is a massive leap forward. Sorting your own shit, as baza would say, or cleaning up your side of the street, as workingonit would say. Even after getting that far, the other party has to sort out their own shit and bagagge. Assuming you get past that, there is still no guarantee of compatibility or mutual desire to continue. I believe Im getting ready to close out a major chapter of my journey. It feels that way. I came here wondering why the frequency of sex was dropping and looking for sympathy among an understanding cohort. What I have learned in a nutshell, is that while I have many redeeming qualities, there is a fair share of shortcomings on my end that have facilitated a dysfunctional marriage. Now she brings some shortcomings to the table too. It does take two to tango. With that dysfunction, my wife has detached, and I am detaching. Is there enough left there to turn it around? Im in the process of trying to find out. I believe that trying to "repair" what is left is probably fuitle. What is more likely to work is to blow up the marriage and begin the process of reconstructing and healing. But that again requires two to tango. I dont even yet know what that blow event is. Is it an affair? Is it an exit plan with a declaration to divorce? Is it counseling? I was planning on a physical affair after dabbling in emotional affairs with a fair amount of sexting. Not exactly proud of that but it was needed for my self esteem and will face the music if it comes to light. I am now of the opinion that an exit strategy sooner rather later is probably more effective. And this is where Im at today. Having said that, I now have the clarity that the sexlessness is not the problem in my case. The relationship is. All that to say that I dont know if I can recover my sexless marriage. But I believe I now do have a template for what needs to happen if we are to attempt a turn around. I'm reluctant to respond here because it is still to early to tell. We are both all in but we are scared shitless that something will mess it up. And we are still hurting each other as we try to heal, albeit certainly not on purpose. Briefly, I've described in far more detail in my "Screwed" thread, the turnaround started when I said I was done and wanted a divorce. I agreed to a six month wait for her to have some medical procedures done. As we went into a waiting limbo, we agreed to start doing nothing but hugging and kissing to help avoid blowups and an early war. Things progressed from there without any intention. But what happened simultaneously was my fear of her disappeared as I was ready to leave, and I would say for the first time in the marriage exactly how I felt. Instead of pushing her away, she appreciates the honesty, as well as my questioning her about things I found hard to believe in her words - she wanted to explain them to me because she hated the idea of being considered untruthful and much preferred I challenge her than just quietly assume she was full of it. The sex came, better and more frequent than ever and averaging once a day, for a couple of months. Then some real life stuff interrupted it (trips, illnesses - I just caught a cold yesterday and we were planning a romantic evening and weekend that just blew up.) But our honest conversations continued, and still continue. Both of us are seeing that old actions can trigger old reactions but now we are trying to be more aware and more understanding; I am working on stopping my brain from going to bad places because my visceral response to something she says or does is rarely accurately reflecting reality. She has done a remarkable job of understanding my pain and why I outsourced, and how her actions contributed to an environment where I would want to do that. I am not as advanced as her in understanding the depth of the pain that came from me, but I'm getting a lot closer. Just yesterday, after reading workingonit's latest update and getting angry over how her H was acting, it hit me that for much of the marriage I acted like he is now in many ways and my wife had been telling me this for years - and I didn't get it. I feel like absolute shit. I did tell her last night how bad I felt. I don't think I have completely "gotten it" yet. I know I don't want to ever, ever be that person again. Just like she doesn't ever want to be that old person to me again. Takeaways? Again, a work in progress, but being direct and honest (yet kind) is by far the biggest and most important change we have made. Expecting that your partner will figure out why you are acting upset without you being clear is a recipe for disaster - they will assume you are a jerk, not that they wronged you. Being able to look hard at yourself and your own shortcomings, and your role in the marriage going off the rails, is important. Getting back to the point of where you assume the best and not the worst of your partner (this is all assuming that he or she is truly not an evil or seriously damaged person.) And, as I recently noted, the willingness to blow up the marriage is pretty much the only thing that will get a spouse's attention. Even with all of this, obviously some people are incompatible, and I have no illusions that too many people can really turn it around. I don't know if my wife and I can. But this time, I know we are both on the same page for once, and we are not willing to let either of us regress. |
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