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Post by Rhapsodee on Mar 28, 2016 10:43:13 GMT -5
I'm curious. How many refused are firstborn?
I ask this because I am the eldest of four. The first three of us are very close in age. I was left standing alone at 2-1/2 while my poor mother tended to a one year old and a newborn. I learned to fend for myself. I learned to accept what I couldn't control and not ask for anything. I also learned how to get what I wanted by taking advantage of situations. I always ran under the radar. They could never figure me out. I never stole anything or hurt anyone. I always told the truth, but not the whole truth. I understood that if I was doing something I wasn't supposed to be doing, such as getting birth control pills, I needed to have two reasons for being there. One the real reason and the other the alibi.
These skills continue to serve me well. But I wonder if they also enable my husband to refuse me. Here I am again. The little girl left standing alone fending for myself. He is a very busy man. He has a company and 30 employees to attend to. This is something I cannot change. I have learned to not ask for anything. I can see how busy he is. I learned to take care of my own sexual needs. I had never cheated or lied but I don't tell the whole truth. I am still flying under the radar with my online friends and ILIASM. I still make sure I have two reasons for being wherever I am if I'm doing something I'm not supposed to be doing.
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Post by Dan on Mar 28, 2016 10:53:56 GMT -5
I'm first born... but in my case, I don't see the connection. I don't quite have the "fend for myself" experience of childhood as you do.
I am a bit of a "giver", a "compromiser". Always willing to go the extra 10 yards to see it from the other person's point of view. For a long time, I figured that made me a good husband. Now I see how that contributed to allowing the low-sex years to happen, and to fester. In some way, my "understanding" and being polite may have contributed to reaching the sexlessness we have today.
Is that kind of the sentiment you are getting at?
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Post by Chatter Fox on Mar 28, 2016 11:49:33 GMT -5
Youngest of 4 here. I have the "fend for yourself" attitude as well. I was always kind of brushed aside and dismissed as being somewhat unimportant due to my age and inexperience. So I learned to be independent. I took it to the extreme. Still do. I don't know that this attitude contributed to my marriage being sexless. It absolutely is the reason I accepted it for so long though and didn't complain much.
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Post by bballgirl on Mar 28, 2016 12:15:36 GMT -5
I'm the first born if three. I can relate to what
Dan wrote about being a giving person and
enabling my refuser to take advantage of
me. However once I understood the abuse
and neglect, I then had a choice to either accept
this or not and I chose to leave.
I'm not sure if birth order plays a role in a SM
it's an interesting theory. I do think birth order
plays a role in personality and a lot of us
refused are kind and giving people.
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Post by DryCreek on Mar 28, 2016 12:31:45 GMT -5
First-born here. I'm not sure that's a strong correlation, but I definitely think that personality traits lead us into this situation.
Traits such as tolerance, patience, empathy, trying to find the good. I.e., looking past the superficial, viewing things for their potential instead of their reality. Strategic thinking overriding tactical needs.
These traits lead us to ignore the immediate and "superficial" signs of trouble. We see an unawakened potential, future greatness, or "what could be" once the trouble has passed. We tolerate immediate issues in exchange for the long-term potential.
These can be super valuable traits in life - being able to see what is not yet realized. To spot a trend early, see diamonds in the rough, avoid pitfalls, etc. It can make for great financial planning, business strategy, and technology architectures.
But our success in other areas can deceive us into thinking that just because we can see a potential, that it can be realized. Psychology is more complex than our usual subjects. In the case of our marriages, we are not in control of the change. We cannot remodel, re-carpet, and landscape to bring out the potential. In a sexless marriage, the subject has to want to change, and we are ill-equipped to motivate them.
With employees, it's a balance. You want to hire for potential and feed that opportunity - but if that potential isn't realized (because they lack motivation, have other priorities, or you misjudged their potential) then you need to make the hard decisions. Sometimes that means re-aligning them into a role that's more suitable, though they may not be happy about it; sometimes it means saying goodbye.
There's a saying in business... "It's not the employees you fire that make your life miserable - it's the ones you don't."
DC
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Post by Rhapsodee on Mar 28, 2016 13:45:44 GMT -5
I'm first born... but in my case, I don't see the connection. I don't quite have the "fend for myself" experience of childhood as you do. I am a bit of a "giver", a "compromiser". Always willing to go the extra 10 yards to see it from the other person's point of view. For a long time, I figured that made me a good husband. Now I see how that contributed to allowing the low-sex years to happen, and to fester. In some way, my "understanding" and being polite may have contributed to reaching the sexlessness we have today. Is that kind of the sentiment you are getting at? I do the exact same thing. I am an understanding and supportive wife. Therefore my needs go unmet simply because I understand. If I ask for what I need I am told I'm too demanding. So I fly under the radar. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2016 14:43:37 GMT -5
Deedle, you sound JUST like me.
I'm the firstborn - only got one younger brother. But because he was the youngest, and he was the boy, and he was cuter than me, he was the favorite. Then later on, because he had problems, he got much more of the attention. (In fairness, he needed that.)
I was taught that I wasn't supposed to bother people, wasn't supposed to ask for anything, wasn't supposed to cause trouble that would require my parents to pay attention to me. I think it really had a negative effect on my life. I'm still - STILL - learning to ask for help when I need it, instead of finding some way to get my needs met without bothering people.
I did gain some useful skills from this. I am one resourceful little f-cker! I excel at finding things out and digging up information. I'm good at sneaking around.
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Post by darktippedrose on Mar 28, 2016 16:08:55 GMT -5
I'm an only child. I started taking care of myself and my mom since I was 3. my mom was an alocoholic and a drug addict so I guess you can say that I had a co-dependent relationship with her. Plus my husband, I suspect is narcissistic, possibly has sociopathic tendencies.
and I've heard co-dependents are magnets for narcissists
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Post by unmatched on Mar 28, 2016 19:58:54 GMT -5
I was first born. On the other hand my younger brother also managed to get into a marriage with no sex, so I am more inclined to blame our role models for giving us the stupid idea that you should 'do whatever it takes to make your marriage work harmoniously.'
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Post by tamara68 on Mar 29, 2016 8:20:19 GMT -5
I am the first born and only child.
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Post by rain on Mar 29, 2016 20:46:57 GMT -5
Both me and my husband -the refuser are the babies of our families.
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Post by DryCreek on Mar 29, 2016 23:19:24 GMT -5
Both me and my husband -the refuser are the babies of our families. That's an interesting angle, and shines the light on their behavior as well... W is the youngest of 4. |
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Post by wewbwb on Mar 30, 2016 10:27:31 GMT -5
I'm curious. How many refused are firstborn? I ask this because I am the eldest of four. The first three of us are very close in age. I was left standing alone at 2-1/2 while my poor mother tended to a one year old and a newborn. I learned to fend for myself. I learned to accept what I couldn't control and not ask for anything. I also learned how to get what I wanted by taking advantage of situations. I always ran under the radar. They could never figure me out. I never stole anything or hurt anyone. I always told the truth, but not the whole truth. I understood that if I was doing something I wasn't supposed to be doing, such as getting birth control pills, I needed to have two reasons for being there. One the real reason and the other the alibi. These skills continue to serve me well. But I wonder if they also enable my husband to refuse me. Here I am again. The little girl left standing alone fending for myself. He is a very busy man. He has a company and 30 employees to attend to. This is something I cannot change. I have learned to not ask for anything. I can see how busy he is. I learned to take care of my own sexual needs. I had never cheated or lied but I don't tell the whole truth. I am still flying under the radar with my online friends and ILIASM. I still make sure I have two reasons for being wherever I am if I'm doing something I'm not supposed to be doing. While not a "firstborn" It was clear that I was an issue. My sister got all the attention (Still does). Yes I fended for myself, yes I spent a lot of time alone and yes I think you may be right about a connection to whom I married. Looking back on it, I see that I found a woman who gave me a little attention while keeping me at arms length to deal with more "important" things. Much like my childhood was spent. |
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Post by wewbwb on Mar 30, 2016 10:31:52 GMT -5
I am the first born and only child. Regardless of the first born or only child, did you find yourself, as a child, left alone? More of a "She can take care of herself" home? Just curious. I may be looking for common traits that aren't there. |
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Post by sweetplumeria on Mar 30, 2016 23:09:49 GMT -5
I am a first born. My circumstances are always outliers though. My siblings are 10 and 14 years younger than me, my father vehimetely claims his manic depressive side... I see the reach but not sure it works.
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