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Post by darktippedrose on May 14, 2016 2:46:01 GMT -5
I've been told before again and again to stand up for myself.
First I was told that marrying an older man was good, part of the natural order of life. yeah. I ended up having to be his nurse shortly after, and not even in a sexy way either. Where was the older man ravenous for his new wife? yeah. I barely saw him.
Then I was told that communication is the key. Not in my marriage it wasn't. Me communicating meant getting shot down. All these jokes about women always being right and men being wrong. I don't get them. In the beginning of my marriage, If I said the smallest thing that wasn't 100% ok religiously, or my husband didn't like it - he'd leave for hours; 6 or 8 or 24 hours. I'd call the jail house, the hospital, etc. He thought it was funny. I'd have the cower and beg forgiveness.
Any other attempts at communication, he talks at me, not to me.
I have come to the conclusion that maybe I'm not great at debate. I stand up for myself the smallest bit, and my husband whips out his verbal skills and just can make me feel and look stupid at the drop of a hat.
I already feel stupid.
My husband wants us to move to Florida because theres a good religious community there. Its closer to Morocco and I don't want to be more isolated than I already am. He's saying religion but I'm seeing power and control.
He won't wait until my grandparents are better. I don't want to leave. He shoots me down so easily.
I told him we have a better chance of moving to Canada if you-know-who becomes President. I heard that Canada may be opening up programs to open up immigration from America. He texted me "Nice try, try reading next time" I texted back "Whatever helps you sleep at night", and him "bitter"
I don't know what it is. I know the facts, I know my feelings, I feel so strong. He says the smallest things or walks in the door and I either freeze up or feel stupid.
Does this happen to anyone else in their SM?
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Post by deleted on May 14, 2016 2:54:48 GMT -5
Are you in America? Divorce him and sue him for spousal support. If you've got kids, use the courts to have him pay child support. Screw him. You're a woman, you're in control.
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Post by sand5280 on May 14, 2016 3:10:04 GMT -5
I stand up for myself the smallest bit, and my husband whips out his verbal skills and just can make me feel and look stupid at the drop of a hat. I already feel stupid. Everything you have said about your situation, you are under control. And one good thing is that you realize it, and want to stop it. Consider the title of your post Standing up for myself.I am reluctant to possibly compare apples and oranges, but your environment looks remarkably similar to tamara68 All I can suggest, if you have not already, go through her Thread of My Control Freak OCD Husband. It began near the end of Masturbation. I sure wish I had more to say, except for one, please drop the feeling that you are stupid. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 5:02:47 GMT -5
Making you feel stupid is one of his ways of controlling you. My STBX was an absolute master at making me question my own judgement. It got to the point that it wasn't worth arguing with him or even trying to explain how I felt about something because I knew he would a) not listen; or b) make me feel like an idiot. If I got excited about an article I had read and told him about it, he would always search for some small thing that was flawed and point it out, completely ignoring or invalidating anything good about the article. Or here's another example - I had an absolutely terrible boss, the woman was inconsiderate, didn't pay me on time, never followed through on her promises, etc. He would often tell me to quit, but then if I complained about her, then he would turn around and point out some tiny thing she had once done for me so she wasn't really as bad as I was saying. I would end up feeling like I shouldn't really be complaining about her. Once I got some distance from it, I would realize he had just basically contradicted himself and that he was just keeping me off balance, but in the moment I could never manage to see it and call him on it. If you feel stupid and you can't trust your own judgement, you are more likely to let them have their way about things because you don't feel capable of fighting back. And it isn't always an obvious thing like the boss situation. In fact, it's usually more subtle and insidious, and it wears away at your confidence.
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Post by darktippedrose on May 14, 2016 5:19:15 GMT -5
@mountainrunner, yes its so subtle and insidious. When explaining it to other people, they often don't see it because its not like Hannibal Lecter's version of sociopathy. its too subtle.
@sand, I'm going to check out tamara68's posts and such.
I deeply appreciate the help.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 14, 2016 8:12:33 GMT -5
Making you feel stupid is one of his ways of controlling you. My STBX was an absolute master at making me question my own judgement. It got to the point that it wasn't worth arguing with him or even trying to explain how I felt about something because I knew he would a) not listen; or b) make me feel like an idiot. If I got excited about an article I had read and told him about it, he would always search for some small thing that was flawed and point it out, completely ignoring or invalidating anything good about the article. Or here's another example - I had an absolutely terrible boss, the woman was inconsiderate, didn't pay me on time, never followed through on her promises, etc. He would often tell me to quit, but then if I complained about her, then he would turn around and point out some tiny thing she had once done for me so she wasn't really as bad as I was saying. I would end up feeling like I shouldn't really be complaining about her. Once I got some distance from it, I would realize he had just basically contradicted himself and that he was just keeping me off balance, but in the moment I could never manage to see it and call him on it. If you feel stupid and you can't trust your own judgement, you are more likely to let them have their way about things because you don't feel capable of fighting back. And it isn't always an obvious thing like the boss situation. In fact, it's usually more subtle and insidious, and it wears away at your confidence. Not to bash men here, but I have read this many times and find myself doing it. When a women complains about her day, she wants sympathy, someone to listen to her and say, " that's terrible, I hate that person, you handled that well, come here let me hold you a while". Instead what do men do? They try to help you by trying to solve the problem, they take a practical non-emotional approach. Men and women are wired different, it's supposed to compliment each other, but it sure doesn't work out that way! During our therapy my wife said, " we should compromise". I crossed my arms and said," no way, your idea of compromise is getting your way and being in control!" Call me, stubborn, but experience proves otherwise. my confidence in computers was never there. I never learned to type well, and I have to be shown two or three times before I " get it". Plus I don't want to be in front of a screen in the house all day. In today's society a computer can give you a lot of control. Budget, spending, finances, planning, education, dating, buying, socializing, job hunting, etc... Yet look what a down side it has to relationships. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 9:53:15 GMT -5
darktippedrose, you need an exit plan. He is verbally and emotionally abusing you. You've got manipulation and control in spades there. Definitely smells of a narcissist and a sociopath. My husband has those tendencies as well, if not to that extreme. In a way, subtle manipulation is worse because it's slippery. I can never quite pin him down. Never legitimately claim that he is manipulating or controlling me because what he does is so subtle that he can always spin it to look like nothing, to make himself look innocent and to make me look crazy. His behavior and conversational style (if it can be elevated to that level of decency) is a lot like what @mountainrunner describes. May sound crazy, but I have wished many times that my husband would just hit me. Then I'd have a socially-recognized and undeniable reason to leave. These white-collar narcissists are too smart for that though. I don't know your situation, but I will share some very wise advice my therapist gave me a few years back when my husband and I were considering a move out of state away from family and friends. She said, "be careful about isolating yourself with him." I have never forgotten that she said that. It gave me chills. I knew exactly what she meant and we did not end up moving, thankfully, nor will I ever consider moving with him again. I am thinking the very same thing in your situation - be careful. Becoming isolated in a new place with him will allow him even more control over you. Can you make a concrete exit plan?
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Post by sand5280 on May 14, 2016 10:07:44 GMT -5
You need an exit plan. He is verbally and emotionally abusing you. You've got manipulation and control in spades there. Definitely smells of a narcissist and a sociopath. Be careful about isolating yourself with him. Now that I have recalled, and re-read some of your older posts, I have to team with @elle on this. Tough love here: This is becoming more clear of someone losing their identity, while being held down. Again, the way you refer to yourself as stupid, I would bet you did not feel that way before. |
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Post by deleted on May 14, 2016 11:19:35 GMT -5
Look, you aren't stupid. I understand he makes you feel that way, but you aren't. You are a beautiful, intelligent and articulate woman that is crazy sexy. You are married to an abusive creep that has a way with words. I apologize if I came across as mean.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 12:20:32 GMT -5
Ive read your stories for a long time and always wondered the same thing, how he can control you and wither your resolve in a few words. Are you like this in other areas of life? Because I have seen this, strong women who don't take any bullshit and cut arrogant men down to size for lunch, who just shrink into nothing with their husband.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 15:24:04 GMT -5
Ive read your stories for a long time and always wondered the same thing, how he can control you and wither your resolve in a few words. Are you like this in other areas of life? Because I have seen this, strong women who don't take any bullshit and cut arrogant men down to size for lunch, who just shrink into nothing with their husband. You could be talking about me here, too. It's so hard to explain how this happens. It starts with small moments like him gently mocking your political views as naive and builds with him always pointing out every flaw in your logic, or disagreeing with you while making you feel stupid for having a different opinion in the first place. It takes time, like water dripping, carrying away a tiny bit of your self confidence with each correction. I can remember agreeing with my husband on a particular issue, then having him change sides and make me feel foolish for having not thought it through thoroughly enough to realize his original stance was flawed. I can't tell you what it's like to feel confused when you walk away, wondering what you even think anymore. It would sometimes take overnight for me to realize that he was mind-fucking me. It took years for him to wear me down to the point that I didn't even try to disagree with him anymore (unless it was about the kids - then I could face him down). A few years ago, I had a biking accident and shattered my collarbone into over 30 pieces. It was a severe injury requiring emergency reconstructive surgery. Afterward, I was in a sling with instructions to not move the shoulder at all (long story why). The third day after the surgery, he somehow made me feel terrible for the house being a mess so I started washing dishes with my one arm until my teenage daughter caught me and ripped him to shreds. I realized then how beat down I had become that I couldn't face his censure even with an injury that should have excused me from housework for more than a few days. I know this doesn't fully explain it. I can't do any better with less verbiage than a novel, and in all honesty, I'm still figuring it out. I've only been out of the marital house since the end of March and the fog is still in the process of clearing. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 14, 2016 16:37:40 GMT -5
You could be talking about me here, too. It's so hard to explain how this happens. It starts with small moments like him gently mocking your political views as naive and builds with him always pointing out every flaw in your logic, or disagreeing with you while making you feel stupid for having a different opinion in the first place. It takes time, like water dripping, carrying away a tiny bit of your self confidence with each correction. I can remember agreeing with my husband on a particular issue, then having him change sides and make me feel foolish for having not thought it through thoroughly enough to realize his original stance was flawed. I can't tell you what it's like to feel confused when you walk away, wondering what you even think anymore. It would sometimes take overnight for me to realize that he was mind-fucking me. It took years for him to wear me down to the point that I didn't even try to disagree with him anymore (unless it was about the kids - then I could face him down). Total agreement with you! This flies in the face of the theory, " you can't change someone". Controllers sure have a knack for it. i read off two pages too the therapist and my wife, concerning all the attempts to do things for our relationship that were rejected by her controlling logic. ( disappointed the therapist did not hold her feet to the fire, it just gets dismissed as" the past") Buying flowers, cards, candy, clothes, going to movies, dinner, trips, vacations, etc.. Years of hearing, can't afford it, waste of money, makes me fat, too tired, too boring, nothing fits me, not the right time, etc, etc.. Who wants to bring these things up again and again, the feeling of rejection holds you back. While your spouse blames you for not taking the Leeds! drip,drip,drip, chip,chip,chip, away at your self esteem,and ability to make decisions. lets add on a bright side, that happens less and less, there is no communication, I spend more and do what pleases me and the rest of the family without her. When the job happens, then comes my own bank account and more realization that the day is coming. |
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Post by darktippedrose on May 14, 2016 17:51:52 GMT -5
deleted No. You're not rude. I didn't feel stupid before marriage. I don't have genius level IQ but its slightly above average. It would probably be much higher if I was better at math and science lol. as an ASD mother, I value being nice and having good manners over being highly intelligent. @mountainrunner - omg, you get it. Its like putting a frog in boiling water and it'll get out. I'm the frog that was put in cool water and slowly boiled to death. and you don't realize the water's getting hot until its too late. when you're away from him you feel strong and as soon as he walks in the door, you freeze up. I describe it as a mental block. My counselor found out my husband has said things that threatened me physically and asked me if I'd ever hit back, like if I secretly became a tae kwon do master or something. I said probably not. In all of my fantasies, my husband is dead lol. My kidz are all in special programs to help them. And I have returned to belly dancing. And of course, my audience loves me. yeah ....... my husband judging me has nothing to do with him being a man. Trust me. If you're aman, listen to her problems, hold her or F**k her or both. Tell her its gonna be alright. unfortunately my idea of men doing his woman right is kind of unrealistic. or maybe it is. I don't know - I want it but I've never had it.
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Post by obobfla on May 14, 2016 18:04:17 GMT -5
I am guess that he said he wanted to be closer to Morocco, he is Muslim. Mohammed listened to his wives and allowed for divorce.
Glad to see your children are in good programs. I am an ASD dad in Florida, and there are some good programs here. But if your children are doing well where you are, don't leave. Your husband sounds like an extremely selfish man who sets a bad example for his sons.
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Post by petrushka on May 14, 2016 18:08:09 GMT -5
Rose, what you are describing is battered woman's syndrome. You are the rabbit, looking at a snake. Paralyzed. The brain shuts down, as a defense mechanism against pain, against fury that it knows would get you killed ...
It's gotten to a very bad level with you. It's just good that you've come to the point where you can talk more freely about it [here] and that you have found a therapist who works with you and tries to help. In so many cases it ends with murder.
Have you considered the possibility that [some of] your kids problems may be partly caused by your husband's behaviour towards you? I don't know your kids, so I have no idea if that's the case, but the thought occurs. E.G. We know for a fact that many kids who just shut down in a classroom situation come from severely abusive families - and severely abusive only begins to cover what goes on at your house.
All I can say is I am so glad, hearing that you're beginning to be a bit more active about getting help. You've changed.
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