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Post by JMX on May 11, 2016 17:53:33 GMT -5
@creel - eerily close. Will PM you on this one.
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Post by Dan on May 11, 2016 18:02:09 GMT -5
How do you manage to socialize normally with the elephant in your life, iykwim? I feel like I am living a lie sometimes - I've got the husband at home who's an asshole and a boozer and I'm supposed to go out there and pretend we're living the dream? I can't do it. It takes too much mental space for me. So, I avoid a lot of community events and gatherings. I spread my friends far away from my daily life so I can be real with them and not have it coming back to my life, if that makes sense. Everyone thinks my husband is perfect and I'm not going to be the one to tell them otherwise. No one would believe how he treats me at home. So there's all that too. Oh yeah, and I when I shop, he gets pissed. I can't win! Umm. Wait. There are many things I don't get here. Your husband's a slug, but everyone thinks he's great. But he never interacts with anyone. So how would they know? And you stay away from community stuff because of him. So they haven't heard anything (either way) about him from you. Why do you have to pretend anything? Just be yourself. Plus, when out: you don't have to defend your husband or make up any stories! I was at a neighbors' holiday party and someone asked where my wife was. "She's allergic to fun," I said. It got a few chuckles, and the conversation was over: perfect. What you NEED is distance from your husband. "Next Wed night is the PTA meeting, dear. I really have to go." Or: "I've decided to help out with the dance studio/Cub Scout/Little League/church picnic thing; I'll be out Monday nights planning it for the next few weeks." I not proposing any deceit: just honestly get yourself out of the house ON ANY PRETENSE. If he is too much of a slug to even make his own dinner, tell him the soup is on the stove... and head out. "There is a new book I want to get, I'm going to Barnes and Nobel." Go sit in the B&N cafe for an hour or two and thumb through a magazine. Upon returning, announce "I decided not to get it." That will even lighten his mood that you didn't "waste money shopping". Join a gym. "I've decided I need to work out two (or three or four) times a week." Or: "I've joined a Zumba class. (Don't worry, my first week is free.)" Can you just FEEL the relief, thinking about these things? |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 18:02:10 GMT -5
@creel - eerily close. Will PM you on this one. You might want to put it here if you're comfortable. This screwed up Mom/Son dealio has so many men totally screwed up. I've always thought it was natural from the Mother's perspective, but it's the responsibility of the Father to temper that, and the son to handle it gently with his mother. My own mother had a bit of a tendency toward that herself. She never particularly liked any of my or my brother's girl friends (not good enough for her boys). When she heard that I had spoken to the USMC recruiter, she forbade me from joining. "Too late mom, I ship out Thursday. I'll be fine." Once when I was home, she asked me to speak to a boy whose mother was concerned about him joining the army. After I met with him she asked how that went. "It went well, I took him down to the Marine Corps recruiter and it looks like he can ship out in a month." That was a narrowly averted disaster. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 18:28:10 GMT -5
This idea that "Everyone loves him" and "Nobody Knows" gets me going.
I see that! LOL. I hear what you're saying. Just know this - those people who go out there and wow everyone with their conversational skills and their witty banter and their quick jokes, that can all be smoke and mirrors. That's my husband. He's not like that at home, but boy do people love that guy. Heck, I fell in love with that too. But there's nothing behind it. He can't (and doesn't) sustain it at home. He has no emotional awareness, no ability to connect on a deeper level - just a lot of great jokes and memorized trivia. He's an entertainer and a used car salesman all rolled into one. Don't get me started on the drinking, the temper, the lies, the hypocrisy, oh - and the SM. I could go on. Just be careful assuming that the ones who go out and are social are all that at home. Not always true, and by contrast, the ones who prefer to stay in and are introverts, that's oftentimes a very deep well full of gold. JMHO. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 18:38:02 GMT -5
How do you manage to socialize normally with the elephant in your life, iykwim? I feel like I am living a lie sometimes - I've got the husband at home who's an asshole and a boozer and I'm supposed to go out there and pretend we're living the dream? I can't do it. It takes too much mental space for me. So, I avoid a lot of community events and gatherings. I spread my friends far away from my daily life so I can be real with them and not have it coming back to my life, if that makes sense. Everyone thinks my husband is perfect and I'm not going to be the one to tell them otherwise. No one would believe how he treats me at home. So there's all that too. Oh yeah, and I when I shop, he gets pissed. I can't win! Umm. Wait. There are many things I don't get here. Your husband's a slug, but everyone thinks he's great. But he never interacts with anyone. So how would they know? And you stay away from community stuff because of him. So they haven't heard anything (either way) about him from you. Why do you have to pretend anything? Just be yourself. Plus, when out: you don't have to defend your husband or make up any stories! I was at a neighbors holiday party and someone asked where my wife was. "She's allergic to fun," I said. It got a few chuckles, and the conversation was over: perfect. What you NEED is distance from your husband. "Next Wed night is the PTA meeting, dear. I really have to go." Or: "I've decided to help out with the dance studio/Cub Scout/Little League/church picnic thing; I'll be out Monday nights planning it for the next few weeks." I not proposing any deceit: just honestly get yourself out of the house ON ANY PRETENSE. If he is too much of a slug to even make his own dinner, tell him the soup is on the stove... and head out. "There is a new book I want to get, I'm going to Barnes and Nobel." Go sit in the B&N cafe for an hour or two and thumb through a magazine. Upon returning, announce "I decided not to get it." That will even lighten his mood that you didn't "waste money shopping". Join a gym. "I'm decided I need to work out two (or three or four) times a week." Or: "I've joined a Zumba class. (Don't worry, my first week is free.)" Can you just FEEL the relief, thinking about these things? Yes, I can feel the relief thinking about these things. I do need to get out of the house more. Heading out soon in fact - for the entire evening. To call him a slug would probably be oversimplifying. He's totally delightful on the surface and out in public, it's when you get him behind closed doors and try to relate to him that things go awry. Adult child of an alcoholic, alcoholic himself. That's some heavy baggage and there's no relating to that, or so I'm learning. If I leave him soup on the stove, I will hear about it. He's more of a "where's my dinner?" kind of guy, and it better not be soup or sandwiches or pancakes. Sigh. But I make dinner for the kids anyway, so that's fine. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 18:39:20 GMT -5
This idea that "Everyone loves him" and "Nobody Knows" gets me going.
I see that! LOL. I hear what you're saying. Just know this - those people who go out there and wow everyone with their conversational skills and their witty banter and their quick jokes, that can all be smoke and mirrors. That's my husband. He's not like that at home, but boy do people love that guy. Heck, I fell in love with that too. But there's nothing behind it. He can't (and doesn't) sustain it at home. He has no emotional awareness, no ability to connect on a deeper level - just a lot of great jokes and memorized trivia. He's an entertainer and a used car salesman all rolled into one. Don't get me started on the drinking, the temper, the lies, the hypocrisy, oh - and the SM. I could go on. Just be careful assuming that the ones who go out and are social are all that at home. Not always true, and by contrast, the ones who prefer to stay in and are introverts, that's oftentimes a very deep well full of gold. JMHO. I've know those as well. I'm still not sure many are fooled. Especially where a temper or alcohol is involved. |
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Post by unmatched on May 11, 2016 18:39:35 GMT -5
How do you manage to socialize normally with the elephant in your life, iykwim? I feel like I am living a lie sometimes - I've got the husband at home who's an asshole and a boozer and I'm supposed to go out there and pretend we're living the dream? I can't do it. It takes too much mental space for me. So, I avoid a lot of community events and gatherings. I spread my friends far away from my daily life so I can be real with them and not have it coming back to my life, if that makes sense. Everyone thinks my husband is perfect and I'm not going to be the one to tell them otherwise. No one would believe how he treats me at home. So there's all that too. Oh yeah, and I when I shop, he gets pissed. I can't win! Lots of very good advice here so there are only two bits I wanted to add. Firstly our brains are largely habitual and by behaving in the same way for a period of time you kind of wear a groove in them which is hard to get out of. So if you are feeling depressed and unmotivated, you need to slowly start doing more stuff that is just for you. Don't try and do everything at once or you will crash. Just add a few things until they feel completely normal, then add a bit more. If you do that over the course of a few months or a year you will look back and be stunned at where you have come. The second one is about 'living a lie'. The vast majority of people in SMs never talk to anyone about it (except here maybe). We go on for years pretending that we have this great life, and you end up feeling completely false and schizophrenic. It is also a huge barrier for many of us to moving on. If you can talk to a few friends and family members and a few people who are actually in your daily life, then suddenly everything starts to feel more synchronised and your life starts to make sense. And it also really helps with building momentum towards an exit. |
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Post by Dan on May 11, 2016 18:53:14 GMT -5
Yes, I can feel the relief thinking about these things. I do need to get out of the house more. Heading out soon in fact - for the entire evening. To call him a slug would probably be oversimplifying. He's totally delightful on the surface and out in public, it's when you get him behind closed doors and try to relate to him that things go awry. Adult child of an alcoholic, alcoholic himself. That's some heavy baggage and there's no relating to that, or so I'm learning. If I leave him soup on the stove, I will hear about it. He's more of a "where's my dinner?" kind of guy, and it better not be soup or sandwiches or pancakes. Sigh. But I make dinner for the kids anyway, so that's fine. My wife is ACOA. She ascribes all manner of her quirks to that. I "get" some of them. I give her some leeway... but it is not a free pass to drag me down. As for the "reasonable in the streets / slug when at home", I get that, too. I've met lots of "wonderful men" who were AWFUL to their wives. Listen: he really isn't your child. At some point "keeping the peace" crosses the line to an unhealthy co-dependency. It's not for me to say if you are headed towards or even across that. But I do recommend you think about it as you consider your marriage and your options. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 18:54:24 GMT -5
The second one is about 'living a lie'. The vast majority of people in SMs never talk to anyone about it (except here maybe). We go on for years pretending that we have this great life, and you end up feeling completely false and schizophrenic. It is also a huge barrier for many of us to moving on. If you can talk to a few friends and family members and a few people who are actually in your daily life, then suddenly everything starts to feel more synchronised and your life starts to make sense. And it also really helps with building momentum towards an exit. Good point about the brain and habits. Noted. And thank you. So sad that so many people are living a lie. But I suspect you are right. I am not a person who can easily live incongruently. I like it all to match up, iykwim. I'm pretty sincere and very honest, unless I need to spare someone's feelings which I will always do if I am aware of it. But anyway, that living a lie business isn't good for the psyche and I think therein lies my hesitance to be more social in my immediate community. If the topic comes up, I am a miserable liar! I can't pretend things are groovy when they aren't, so I just avoid. Not saying it's healthy, but it's what I do. I agree with what rhapsodee said about shame. I am ashamed of my marriage and my husband, so I hide. That's probably something to work on in therapy. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 18:57:37 GMT -5
As for the "reasonable in the streets / slug when at home", I get that, too. I've met lots of "wonderful men" who were AWFUL to their wives. Listen: he really isn't your child. At some point "keeping the peace" crosses the line to an unhealthy co-dependency. It's not for me to say if you are headed towards or even across that. But I do recommend you think about it as you consider your marriage and your options. Thank you for getting that. Honestly. It's one of the things that has kept me here for so long - the fear that no one would understand how I could leave such a great guy. And, yes, I'm well aware of co-dependency and the unhealthy pattern that we have going on here. I'm 2 years into a 4 year exit plan. I'm just trying to cope and get through it and make sense of it. And gain the courage and strength I need to follow through with said exit plan, yk? |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 19:02:34 GMT -5
The second one is about 'living a lie'. The vast majority of people in SMs never talk to anyone about it (except here maybe). We go on for years pretending that we have this great life, and you end up feeling completely false and schizophrenic. It is also a huge barrier for many of us to moving on. If you can talk to a few friends and family members and a few people who are actually in your daily life, then suddenly everything starts to feel more synchronised and your life starts to make sense. And it also really helps with building momentum towards an exit. This! Yes! I can't even tell you how much it helped me once I started to tell a few people the truth. First my sister, then my cousins, eventually a couple of close friends - what a relief to not pretend, at least with a few people. I didn't even start to consider divorce until I'd shared the truth of my situation, and even then, it's taken years to actually leave my marriage. And on the subject of what others think of your marriage: Every single person I told about the divorce, every single one said, "Well, this has been coming for a while." It got almost comical at some point. When my own daughter said the same thing, I just about lost it. "WTF? Why am I the last one on this bus?" I asked her. She said, "Well, there's Dad." Okay, so at least I beat him onto the bus, but seriously, not one single one of my friends was fooled about the state of my marriage (and I'm talking about the ones I never told about the SM). |
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Post by unmatched on May 11, 2016 19:03:07 GMT -5
So sad that so many people are living a lie. But I suspect you are right. I am not a person who can easily live incongruently. I like it all to match up, iykwim. I'm pretty sincere and very honest, unless I need to spare someone's feelings which I will always do if I am aware of it. But anyway, that living a lie business isn't good for the psyche and I think therein lies my hesitance to be more social in my immediate community. If the topic comes up, I am a miserable liar! I can't pretend things are groovy when they aren't, so I just avoid. Not saying it's healthy, but it's what I do. I agree with what rhapsodee said about shame. I am ashamed of my marriage and my husband, so I hide. That's probably something to work on in therapy. So how would it be to be more social without lying? You don't have to tell everybody all the nasty details about your life and your marriage, but you can also do it without putting on your plastic face and pretending it is all good. Do you feel you have somehow failed in life because you chose the wrong husband or haven't managed to turn him into someone he isn't? That is definitely something to talk about in therapy. And that kind of internalised failure is something that is massively compounded by not talking to people. If you can get out there a bit and start being a bit more open about it, you might find it is much easier to let that go and realise that he is the failure here, not you. |
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Post by Dan on May 11, 2016 19:05:02 GMT -5
@elle : I'm really glad you are here. And, well, I'm glad EVERYONE is here.
In recent weeks, I think I've posted more advice/replies that started threads on "my own stuff". But most of what I write is stuff I need to tell myself; learn myself; hear myself say. I see that in most of what I've posted to you today.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 19:21:22 GMT -5
Of course I feel a sense of failure at having chosen the wrong man. But I'm also keenly aware that I chose him from a place of my own pain and that I've grown and I've changed and he hasn't. Do men evolve? I'm not trying to be insulting. I just don't have that experience with the man in my life. He has not evolved or grown up or become deeper. I've spent years evolving, learning about myself, growing, changing, hopefully maturing - all this while he watches TV and drinks beer. He has not grown one iota. I don't feel I failed in changing him because that was never my job to begin with. But I did fail to understand who he is/was and what he would be able to give to me - I expected he could be emotionally connected. Why? Because I thought that was the default for people. So, I accept part of the blame in our problems - I chose him, my bad. We were never a good match and I was too young and too naive and too optimistic to understand that and too damaged myself. Anyway, those are things to discuss in therapy, I suppose. Those and the shame. I need to lose the shame. I don't think I'm defending him in saying this, but I really do think he's doing his best (his best just sucks). He's a wounded man. Everything he does, including the way he treats me, comes from a place of pain and disconnect and psychological damage. I see that. I feel that. I have compassion for that. But I cannot be on the receiving end of it much longer.  (There I go, crying again. Did I mention I'm a crier??) Sorry, I think I digress a bit here. I need to leave the house. I'll check in again tomorrow. |
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Post by obobfla on May 11, 2016 19:24:47 GMT -5
Thank you for the replies, the validation, the suggestions. You have no idea (or maybe you do) how enormously helpful it was for me to even post here. It was like validating myself for all the crap he has put me through over the years. Al-Anon, been to a few meetings. Probably need to go back for more. Individual therapy, done it (still doing it). It has helped me get through the last 8 years. Maybe I need a new therapist or maybe it's just time to finally get out from under this black cloud of a marriage. Lawyer - check. I know my rights. Financial planner, hmm, that's a good one. I'll have to look into it. Problem is doing all this on the downlow so HE doesn't get suspicious. I have been working on an exit plan for the last 2 years. I have 2 more to go. It's a long process and it's complicated by children and the fact that I have been home trying to be June Cleaver for several years now. Poor June - she didn't realize she was painting herself into a corner. Trying to get out of that corner is an arduous task, to put it mildly. Just this morning, after posting, I made a doctor appointment for a checkup and I'm talking to the local gym about joining their fitness challenge. Time to get this train moving again. Life's too short to let the dead weight of my marriage pull me down into oblivion. Thanks everyone for taking the time to post. Honestly, it looks like this forum is going to pull me up by my bootstraps and get me through the next 2 years. I just need hope (for my OWN life) and sometimes I lose sight. Especially when HE says he's going to change. I swear, if I hear that one more time, I'm either going to laugh in his face or vomit. He's never going to change. And I am sick of waiting around. I was going to suggest Al-Anon or CODA (for co-dependents). I've been in AA for 21 years. It saved my life, literally. The biggest lesson I learned is that I was beating myself up over nothing. My self-worth stank because I thought I was supposed to run the world. Since the world was running well, I thought I was doing a bad job. Plus, God and the people around me were preventing me from being the true Emperor of the World. I had to realize that I just had to run me, screw everything else. As an alcoholic, I can say the best thing you can do for your husband is leave him. The sooner, the better. Let him wallow in his own misery. He might even thank you later. |
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(There I go, crying again. Did I mention I'm a crier??) Sorry, I think I digress a bit here. I need to leave the house. I'll check in again tomorrow.
