If you were told to choose

Brother worksforme2 makes a telling point.

Your spouse has been driving the agenda in your deal, and based on your postings, he has proven to be a rotten driver, having run the deal into the ditch.

There really doesn't seem to be any good reason to let him stay at the wheel.

If you want this deal to go in another direction, YOU will have to take over the wheel and start driving.
And at this point he is just ballast in the vehicle, happy to stay in the ditch.
Your journey might go a whole lot smoother if you off loaded the ballast.

It's funny, I seem to have ideas for what other people should do with their situations but I cannot manage to do anything about my own situation. I guess I will break this up into chunks:

1. Personally, I don't see the "sex" that you are currently receiving as being sufficient to keep you happy. I think if you agreed to this to sustain the marriage you would be back at this same point again within a year. All you would have ended up doing is delaying the inevitable for the next year.

2. Delaying the inevitable: This is not necessarily a bad thing. I know two people, both have kids that will be out of school soon, that are basically delaying their divorces for a few years until that time has passed. One would lose too much money in child support, the other cannot leave her child alone with her husband. In your case, a year or two may work to put you in a better position to leave. But what will you do until then?

3. What to do until then: Others have already pointed out that there are other options available to you for affection. I'm sure your child is a better source of hugs than your husband is, I know mine is. And from what you have described, the "sex" you are receiving doesn't sound like it's doing much to sustain you at this point anyway. There are obvious pitfalls to outsourcing, online affairs, etc... however, for me, the emotional support I have received has helped me to rebuild my self esteem and self worth and outsourcing has shown me that I am not the horrible lover I thought I was, with the right person things are amazing!

Obviously you need to weigh the pros and cons of your situation but in the short term it would seem that stabilizing and stalling would be in order. Get things back to where they need to be so that this isn't the major issue in your relationship and spend some time focusing on building your plan of action. That's my two cents for whatever it's worth. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do!

Hi mrslowmaintenance,

To be given an ultimatum is unfair and creates even more pressure to an already fragile situation.

If that was me, I will not choose, I will not be told what to do and what my options should be. I need to have my own options to present and make a compromise. If I cant reach any, I will have to regroup, weigh the pros and cons taking into consideration my child and other aspects of it, make a decision and stand by it.

It takes two people to make a marriage work. It takes a joint effort, one will never be enough.

I wish you well and good luck. 😊

I comment on this motif frequently, because I came into an insight around this in the late game that was hidden in plain sight.
Sex isn't difficult to have with people who you want to have sex with. Take yourself, for example. You are in the same marriage as him. You want to have sex - not just in certain quantities as your have described, but within a certain context. When I was in counselling, our councilor said "People focus on the quantity, but ignore the question of quality." Of course, this prompted agreement and then I adapted my demands of her to expand to include the quality and context. I wanted sex that would express her own desire for me. I wanted some heat, rather than tolerance. I wanted sex that she initiated - that she *needed* from me. I wanted to be the object of her desire. I wanted to be used with more frequency than the shower massage. I wanted her to take initiative and find out more about sexual practices and acts that might enrich us, or excite her. I wanted sexual expression to be a genuine priority and exceed my honest expectations of her.

She despaired, became angry at my unreasonable demands.
I think this was the goal of the therapist, to lay bare the truth of our situation in such a way that we'd both see it.

The truth, from her perspective, was that she didn't want sex with me and that she was only enduring it as a way of staying married. Likewise, I was enduring the deficiency of sexual expression as a way of staying married. Thus, asking for more or offering less - while consistent with each of our true inclinations with each other - would provoke disappointment and rage because we were *working hard* at enduring a situation we didn't want or appreciate.

I recalled her utter despair when, the morning after we had sex, I tried to initiate again and was kicked off her. She broke down, expressing despair and rage at my apparent insatiability for wanting it twice - once at night and once again in the morning. "Wasn't that enough?" she pleaded? "It will never be enough!" I recall her telling me each time she proposed (now I realize she was really telling herself), that she would like to "offer loving sex". She was characterizing the sex, in words out loud, before we had it, in such a way that she could find an onramp to it emotionally. Later on, this got switched to "companionable" sex, in her words. Either she was deliberately trying to take sex and frame it in such a way that it would be undesirable for me, or, more generously, she was engaging in a ritual of framing it for herself so it would be endurable.


From my side of it, it came down to several points:
- regardless of how often I was "given" sex, as she put it, how did it make me feel that she clearly DID NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH ME.
- I had attributed the quantity of sex toward evidence of her desire (and I was incorrect in this), but what I really wanted was for my partner to desire me in the way I desired her. There was a lot more happening there than once every two weeks.
- Consistently, the worst disappointments and despair occurred when I thought there might be a chance we might have sex. I began to associate my natural attraction to her with humiliation and anger, and eventually this turned toward my own body. I began to see my own bodily responses as humiliating betrayals of my intentions, and "self love" as a disgusting disappointment. I began to resent my own body, and began delaying "self love" as much as I could, because I would cry - it made me feel lonely. I will admit this avoidance has not completely abated some 3+ years later. This was alleviated somewhat when I deliberately gave up and began sleeping in a different room.
- Our other therapist "tricked me" into admitting my deepest truth about the marriage when she asked me in an intense moment "Well what would happen if you just quit trying to pull this rope?". I responded without thinking, from the heart, "Then there would be no marriage." I kept turning it over in my mind all day, because it revealed that I was trying to enact a mutual attraction single-handed. All of our efforts were happening because of me. With the destruction of our family and lifestyle at stake, she still wasn't present, and wasn't doing her "homework" from the therapist. I asked her if she still wanted to be married to me. She said, "I don't know." I explained, calmly, that "I don't know," falls well short of even a second date with me, let alone a marriage, and said "We are getting a divorce."

Sounds like you need to figure out what your boundaries and minimums are too. Rather than fixing on quantities, look farther upstream at the feeling that supplies those quantities and the context, and look farther downstream at how their lack makes you feel about yourself - what it means to you.

That brings up the 'trust"  and "respect" issue, doesn't it? It's no longer just sex and intimacy.

This forum continues to amaze me with the warmth and overflowing wisdom.

I really appreciate everything you all have said.

I posted a but of my story on another platform and it was overwhelmingly negative and all about leaving at whatever cost, but I have to say I love how grounded this group is. You all are so much more understanding and open to knowing why it may be of more value to give myself a few years, why this is even something I am deciding. I know a lot of people could say that this is an easy ticket out, but a ticket out at this point in my life could do much more harm than good for me right now. I wish I knew how the next few years going one way or the other could play out, but I don't.

For now though, right now, I have a little girl who is about to have her 4th birthday. And all she knows is a life with two parents dedicated to her, who still live each other, she is spoiled with time and attention and I don't want to cause her a great deal of damage if I can avoid it.

I think I am strong enough (and maybe I will add in a side resource) to last a few years, to give my home stability while I slowly work towards my little having more independence and me, having a viable income.



Now, do I think I will have a great sex life for those years and actually feel satisfied? Nope. I don't.
I am being realistic here, after I tell him divorce is off the table as long as he keeps to his expectations, I imagine he is almost certainly going to sink exactly to those within a short period of time. The frequency that he is forcing right now (every 6-10 days) is only because he thinks I am about to walk out the door. However, I will have cuddling back, which is actually a lot more important to me than I had realized.

Anyway, thank you for reading this novel and for always being here for me.
I have a lot to do, but I find comfort in knowing this group will be here to help and support me.

Waiting a year or two until your daughter is in public school can make a difference. No day care costs, free transportation, after school activities, opportunities to meet other moms-and potential new husbands- while staying in the same school zone. Your daughter can also have friends who understand what she will go through.

Still a tough, emotional decision. What helps me is the priority scale. 1) God 2) Marriage 3) Family. In that order. This helps you (and myself) to look out for myself without guilt. Knowing that I am helping the family as well.