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Post by eternaloptimism on May 8, 2016 11:03:47 GMT -5
So another option I'm musing atm is suggesting an open relationship to my refuser.
If I'm too much of a scaredy pants to leave the father of my kids and he doesn't want me to go anyway, would this be a viable option? I have rejected outsourcing for now as I can't do deceit.
Anyone have any experience of this?
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Post by wewbwb on May 8, 2016 11:16:23 GMT -5
Good luck. Typically doesnt work if the relationship isnt strong to start.
But i could be wrong.
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Post by eternaloptimism on May 8, 2016 11:19:34 GMT -5
Good luck. Typically doesnt work if the relationship isnt strong to start. But i could be wrong. It could be the catalyst I need to get him back in action or gone though. Just don't have a clue how he would react |
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Post by wewbwb on May 8, 2016 11:33:42 GMT -5
Ok as a push maybe not a bad idea. Just make sure you have a fall back plan.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 12:35:48 GMT -5
wewbwb hit the nail on the head here. The whole point of an open relationship, is to be "open." I think that's difficult to accomplish if the communication between the married couple has stagnated or just doesn't exist. Although, I hadn't considered the merits of just having the conversation, until you mentioned it, eternaloptimism. Excellent topic. I am very interested in others' experience with open marriages.
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Post by Dan on May 8, 2016 12:54:01 GMT -5
First, 90% of the open marriages I've heard about is where both members of the couple are high-libido (HL) and have promiscuous tendencies. Their "see other people" arrangements are for the thrill of it... and they still have thrills with each other. I've heard of a small number of situations where the low-libido (LL) spouse lets the HL one fool around in order to appease, in exchange for the benefits of the HL not leaving the marriage. But back to the idea of you asking: I think if you ask for an open marriage, you need to have a "Plan B" ready. Conversation without a "Plan B": - HL: We're not having sex; I want sex. I'd like to see other people for sex. Are you OK with an open marriage?
- LL: No.
Then what? (In my case the reply would certainly be "No! Eww! And now I'm even LESS LIKELY to have sex with you because that is insulting/gross/despicable/icky/mean to me!") Conversation starters with a "Plan B": - HL: We're not having sex; I want sex. Which would you prefer: starting to have sex again (regularly and with enthusiasm), or an open marriage?
or - HL: We're not having sex; I want sex. Which would you prefer: an open marriage (where we can discuss the "parameters" of me having sex outside the marriage) or for me to secretly find sex on the side without you knowing about it?
or - HL: We're not having sex; I want sex. Which would you prefer: an open marriage or a divorce?
or maybe something else you come up with. Seriously, if you're not at the point where you can say a "Plan B" out loud and mean it, then I don't think you're ready to ask for an open marriage in a sexless marriage situation. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on May 8, 2016 13:05:35 GMT -5
First, 90% of the open marriages I've heard about is where both members of the couple are high-libido (HL) and have promiscuous tendencies. Their "see other people" arrangements are for the thrill of it... and they still have thrills with each other. I've heard of a small number of situations where the low-libido (LL) spouse lets the HL one fool around in order to appease, in exchange for the benefits of the HL not leaving the marriage. I think if you ask for an open marriage, you need to have a "Plan B". Conversation without a "Plan B": - HL: We're not having sex; I want sex. I'd like to see other people for sex. Are you OK with an open marriage?
- LL: No.
Then what? (In my case the reply would certainly be "No! Eww! And now I'm even LESS LIKELY to have sex with you because that is insulting/gross/despicable/icky/mean to me!") Conversation starters with a "Plan B": - HL: We're not having sex; I want sex. Which would you prefer: starting to have sex again (regularly and with enthusiasm), or an open marriage?
or - HL: We're not having sex; I want sex. Which would you prefer: an open marriage (where we can discuss the "parameters" of me having sex outside the marriage) or for me to secretly find sex on the side without you knowing about it?
or - HL: We're not having sex; I want sex. Which would you prefer: an open marriage or a divorce?
or maybe something else you come up with. Seriously, if you're not at the point where you can say a "Plan B" out loud and mean it, then I don't think you're ready to ask for an open marriage in a sexless marriage situation. I already tried one version. I dumped him proper (in my head anyway) a couple months back. At which point he declared child abuse when he was aged 9-12 as the reason for our issues. My response was utter horror for him as a little boy. I'm a natural empath and giver so I encouraged him into therapy and gave another chance. Still no improvement. I'm looking to shock him into action I think. I'd be over the moon if he turned to me and said he agrees that we are incompatible and we should go our separate ways. But he has it too easy here with me. I'm a bloody doormat Where he is concerned. But to everyone else I'm confident and feisty and fun and caring. Only a couple of very close friends know the truth. He just has to look at me the right way and I slide back down the slope of thinking it can work. I really have to address my self esteem issues. It's daft because I'm not even a little bit scared of being on my own. I just can't bear to hurt him intentionally. I feel Pathetic as I type that because he is so damaging for me and my kids. I wish someone would pack me off out for a day and do the dumping deed properly for me on my behalf. Someone who doesn't fall for his bloody eyes!!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 13:44:07 GMT -5
So another option I'm musing atm is suggesting an open relationship to my refuser. If I'm too much of a scaredy pants to leave the father of my kids and he doesn't want me to go anyway, would this be a viable option? I have rejected outsourcing for now as I can't do deceit. Anyone have any experience of this? He'll probably never agree to it. Open marriages are not solutions. They are something you do by mutual agreement at the beginning. If he refuses (as usual) what do you do then? Demand it? Bad idea to announce to your spouse you are going to have sex with other people. Depending on your jurisdiction that could come back to bite you in the event of a divorce. Some people swear it works for them though. All you can do is ask. But I'm seeing in your stories a classic case of desperation to find any way to find intimacy and also avoid ending the marriage. There usually isn't. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 13:48:57 GMT -5
One other thing, are you ok with him boinking someone else? Don't think he won't.
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Post by eternaloptimism on May 8, 2016 14:25:27 GMT -5
So another option I'm musing atm is suggesting an open relationship to my refuser. If I'm too much of a scaredy pants to leave the father of my kids and he doesn't want me to go anyway, would this be a viable option? I have rejected outsourcing for now as I can't do deceit. Anyone have any experience of this? He'll probably never agree to it. Open marriages are not solutions. They are something you do by mutual agreement at the beginning. If he refuses (as usual) what do you do then? Demand it? Bad idea to announce to your spouse you are going to have sex with other people. Depending on your jurisdiction that could come back to bite you in the event of a divorce. Some people swear it works for them though. All you can do is ask. But I'm seeing in your stories a classic case of desperation to find any way to find intimacy and also avoid ending the marriage. There usually isn't. I think you are right in that I'm desperately seeking intimacy without finishing this relationship. My ideal is to stay with him happily. But I'm never going to get happiness here. I'm just waiting for something to happen to kick me one way or the other. We are not actually married btw. Got together in 1999. Son born 2001. Had 2002 - 2006 off... I left him due to his gambling and borrowing money and violence. He pestered me every day of that split to get back. I managed to keep myself on track with that until one weak moment and he was back. Feet under my table before I could blink. Son 2 came in 2008. Basically had no sex since. The gambling and violence has been replaced by a weed addiction. It's messy! |
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Post by eternaloptimism on May 8, 2016 14:41:57 GMT -5
One other thing, are you ok with him boinking someone else? Don't think he won't. I truly would love for him to boink someone else. That would be my window of opportunity to leg it. I'm just spineless I think. Gotta give him kudos for finding someone so stupid to look after him his whole adult live without having to give anything in return! Smart man ha ha. |
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Post by Dan on May 8, 2016 14:48:03 GMT -5
First, 90% of the open marriages I've heard about is where both members of the couple are high-libido (HL) and have promiscuous tendencies. Their "see other people" arrangements are for the thrill of it... and they still have thrills with each other. Maybe a higher percentage! More like almost 100% of them? OK, I'll amend my estimates: - ~90% of open marriages are two HL spouses with a shared sense of sexual thrill seeking.
- ~10% of open marriages are two HL spouses who really have given up on (even hate) each other, but the arrangement to "stay married and have separate love lives" suits them.
- ~2% of open marriages would be considered "polyamorous"
- ~2% of open marriages are LL spouse accedes this concession to keep HL spouse in the sexless marriage.
(Yeah, yeah: I know that totals to over 100%. You can deduct 4% wherever you'd like!) The first group is easy to find/read about, especially in "swinger" or "lifestyle" communities. My first AP was in the second category: both spouses where actively seeing others. I've know one person personally in a polyamoruos relationship, and think I interacted with one on EP. ( What's 'polyamory'?) I spoken with women in the last category personally; a few EP friends, others a while ago. A few of them I even "tutored" on how to find a suitable AP. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on May 8, 2016 15:32:17 GMT -5
Maybe a higher percentage! More like almost 100% of them? OK, I'll amend my estimates: - ~90% of open marriages are two HL spouses with a shared sense of sexual thrill seeking.
- ~10% of open marriages are two HL spouses who really have given up on (even hate) each other, but the arrangement to "stay married and have separate love lives" suits them.
- ~2% of open marriages would be considered "polyamorous"
- ~2% of open marriages are LL spouse accedes this concession to keep HL spouse in the sexless marriage.
(Yeah, yeah: I know that totals to over 100%. You can deduct 4% wherever you'd like!) The first group is easy to find/read about, especially in "swinger" or "lifestyle" communities. My first AP was in the second category: both spouses where actively seeing others. I've know one person personally in a polyamoruos relationship, and think I interacted with one on EP. ( What's 'polyamory'?) I spoken with women in the last category personally; a few EP friends, others a while ago. A few of them I even "tutored" on how to find a suitable AP. Interesting. I'd like to find out more about polyamory. I just don't see how a human can get everything they need from 1 other human ... This doesn't quite sit right with me. Society has rules. We are conditioned into them without any consultation. I want to make my own rules. Actually... Not even rules...everything in life changes and is fluid so why are we so hell bent on beating ourselves up because one human doesn't quite fit what we want? I want options ha ha |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 15:39:21 GMT -5
eternaloptimism, it sounds like there are other good reasons (in addition to the no-sex bullshit) for you to end this relationship. Like, violence and drugs. Let me ask you this - and I hope you won't be offended: are you in therapy, or have you ever been in therapy? I get the feeling that you are having trouble letting go of this situation with a childish man that you have to take care of (in ways that no adult should have to take care of another adult.) Why is that, exactly? Why is it so hard for you to leave a situation where you give so much and receive so little? What are you getting out of this?
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 15:42:08 GMT -5
He'll probably never agree to it. Open marriages are not solutions. They are something you do by mutual agreement at the beginning. If he refuses (as usual) what do you do then? Demand it? Bad idea to announce to your spouse you are going to have sex with other people. Depending on your jurisdiction that could come back to bite you in the event of a divorce. Some people swear it works for them though. All you can do is ask. But I'm seeing in your stories a classic case of desperation to find any way to find intimacy and also avoid ending the marriage. There usually isn't. I think you are right in that I'm desperately seeking intimacy without finishing this relationship. My ideal is to stay with him happily. But I'm never going to get happiness here. I'm just waiting for something to happen to kick me one way or the other. We are not actually married btw. Got together in 1999. Son born 2001. Had 2002 - 2006 off... I left him due to his gambling and borrowing money and violence. He pestered me every day of that split to get back. I managed to keep myself on track with that until one weak moment and he was back. Feet under my table before I could blink. Son 2 came in 2008. Basically had no sex since. The gambling and violence has been replaced by a weed addiction. It's messy! If he did fook someone else and you dumped him, would be just do the same thing and suck you back in? One thing I read about sociopaths, not only can they make you think they love you, they can make you think you love them. Do you think you love him? If so, I strongly suggest some sober reflection on whether that's really the case. I also question that he has a weed "addiction." Bud isn't addictive like alcohol or cocaine. You can become psychologically dependent on it, but just as a wild guess maybe he's psychologically dependent on his nanny. And he knows how to push her buttons. You need people around you to keep you in reality. That's what we're here for :-). |
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