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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 9, 2017 20:26:38 GMT -5
Man...sorry to hear about your predicament. Sounds like a relationship worth salvaging though.
If PIV is out if the question. How about other forms of intimacy? Oral, 69, sensual massage, manual, toys etc.
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Post by scrimshaw on Jul 9, 2017 20:33:17 GMT -5
She was clear before we married that oral and anal were not options. Can't say I wasn't warned.  We're both at a point now where we don't really discuss sex much. I'm not going to lie, a HJ just doesn't sound all that appealing. Working on her severe depression is really the first thing, without conquering that, I really don't think much is possible. |
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 9, 2017 20:49:50 GMT -5
Have you tried the massage route? Maybe a couples massage option to start. If that works then maybe you give the massage next time.
Its not the same, but massage does create connectedness. Of course theres always the problem of expectation for sex. You're left with a woody and she's half asleep.
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 10, 2017 0:12:56 GMT -5
Everything made sense except for the last sentence. Marriage is more than just sex, and you and your spouse care for one another. But you threw in the end your lack of self-worth. Is that the price of staying in a sexless marriage?
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Post by McRoomMate on Jul 10, 2017 6:35:24 GMT -5
What the heck is PIV? Penis in Vagina sex. You are not alone . . . thank-you NIKT "Now I Know Too" ; ) |
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Post by beachguy on Jul 10, 2017 10:03:21 GMT -5
About 90% of the SM on this Forum per my viewing (and probably more) is because the Marriage is Disfunctional and the lack of sex is just a symptom of a really toxic relationship lasting too long. I disagree! In fact, a large proportion of members here experienced sexual dysfunction shortly after the wedding. In my case the following day, and I am far from alone on that. In these cases, The only way your statement could be correct is that the relationship was already "really toxic" prior to marriage. While I've seen a few cases of that here, it is not typical. There are many here that seem to be reluctant to accept that, at least in the context of SMs that started very early in the marriage, much or all of this is due to significant sexual dysfunction on the part of one of the spouses. |
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Post by shamwow on Jul 10, 2017 11:07:03 GMT -5
We have no children*, so not staying for the children. I stay for a lot of reasons (somewhat in order); - We aren't just two people living under the same roof. We sleep in the same bed, we cuddle. We treat each other well. We hold hands a lot. A lot of people have said we're an "adorable couple". - It isn't simple refusal. Intercourse is painful for her. Part of the reason we stopped 8 years ago was because I could see the pain in her face. - She is working on it; she sees a pelvic floor therapist, she is working with dilators, she uses a vaginal estrogen cream. I personally don't see that it will work. Add up DES exposure in utero, having her ovaries removed, and then breast cancer so she can't have any hormones at all - and I just don't see intercourse ever not being painful for her. - We do things together; we ride a tandem bike together, around 2,000 miles a year on the tandem. I ride another ~2,000 miles a year on my own, she probably rides 500 to 1,000 on her own bike. - I've worked very hard to get to a point financially where actual, real retirement is likely. Clearly a divorce would mean working the rest of my life. - We live in Southern California - surviving on half my pay would be difficult - I have kids fresh out of college who I supervise, who make substantially more than half my salary, and they all are sharing apartments, living with their parents, or renting a room in someone's house. - Moving to another city isn't an option - I work in a niche industry, I'm good at what I do, and I get to be a part of some really cool stuff. There is only one other company in the U.S. that does what we do, so I'll not be identifying what I do, other than to say I'm an engineer. I'm not about to move to where the other company is, and besides, they are hanging on by a shoestring because we employ most of the best people in the business. - I fear what would happen to her if I left. She hasn't worked outside the home in 7 or 8 years; this was a joint decision. She historically has had troubles holding on to jobs for very long. It would be difficult for her to get much more than a minimum wage job. - She is suffering from major depression. She had a pretty shitty childhood, got date-raped in her 20s, had a crap 1st marriage, was unable to have children, is a breast cancer survivor, I've cheated on her both physically (once) and sexting (once). Got caught both times, it's doubly hard on her because her dad had numerous affairs as she was growing up. - I suffer from anxiety and moderate depression. I have almost no friends who aren't mutual friends. I'm sure that it would come out that I cheated and that would be the end of a lot of friendships and possibly not being welcome at more than a couple cycling groups. I've probably left some stuff out, but those are my reasons for staying. It would be "easier" to leave if our marriage were otherwise crap, and if I had any feelings of self-worth. * technically not true, we adopted a teenager 9 years ago who moved out 2 years later to be with her bio-parents. We hear from her occasionally. That's a long story in an of itself which added a ton of stress to our marriage. But she's not a factor in any decision making. I understand that the pain may make sex unbearable (for her because of the pain, for you because you see her in pain). Have you discussed other avenues of "release"? I understand that from the hormone perspective, it might not "do much for her", but if she cares about you, she will understand (even if just intellectually) that you have needs. After all, your drive is still intact. My wife also suffers from painful intercourse, although I believe hers is psychsomatic since she has never really sought treatment over a 20 year period. Your sounds like a different situation entirely. I do know, though, that when I suggested alternate, non-penetrative methods of intimacy, these were also unceremoniously shut down. My thoughts are that if she is not willing to entertain these other avenues, the issue of painful sex could still be a convenient (or inconvenient for you) cover for a lack of desire to be intimate with someone she has professed to have and hold...in sickness and in health. But there is no need to justify staying, cheating, or leaving. That is entirely a personal decision since you are the only one who knows the true situation, the personalities, and the level of dissatisfaction you are willing / able to endure. My only point is that a "medical" condition is not sufficient reason to unilaterally abandon the marital vows. Not when (to put it crudely) the other "parts" are all still functional. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 10, 2017 11:57:29 GMT -5
You and your wife have a relationship with affection, love, and you do things together as a couple- that makes a huge difference.
Sounds like you have a nice life, family, and wife to cherish.
Enjoy each other and be content with what you have because that's the key to happiness.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 12:07:22 GMT -5
I am so sorry scrimshaw. I really don't know what to say. I hope you are able to stand this for the long term. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Jul 10, 2017 13:35:14 GMT -5
About 90% of the SM on this Forum per my viewing (and probably more) is because the Marriage is Disfunctional and the lack of sex is just a symptom of a really toxic relationship lasting too long. I disagree! In fact, a large proportion of members here experienced sexual dysfunction shortly after the wedding. In my case the following day, and I am far from alone on that. In these cases, The only way your statement could be correct is that the relationship was already "really toxic" prior to marriage. While I've seen a few cases of that here, it is not typical. There are many here that seem to be reluctant to accept that, at least in the context of SMs that started very early in the marriage, much or all of this is due to significant sexual dysfunction on the part of one of the spouses. Thank-you beachguy I will defer to your experience and hell if I have the statistics right. I think there are two camps Camp 1: The Spouse (H or W) is avers to sex in GENERAL not specific to any individual Camp 2: The Spouse (H or W) is averse to sex but ONLY with their SPECIFIC spouse but not others. My assessment is the majority of SM is due to SPECIFIC individual of the spouse and not Anti-Sex with the world. Somewhere in that mix is High libido vs. Low Libido, and actual medical /psychological conditions (past abuse, biological problem, etc.) In my case it was Specific - though my W definitely had a much lower libido - she still could have in a healthy non-dysfunctional relationship a somewhat normal sex life and intimacy - but not the two of us. In your case, was it "General" or "Specific" ? A medical condition or something? |
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Post by scrimshaw on Jul 10, 2017 13:58:10 GMT -5
Everything made sense except for the last sentence. Marriage is more than just sex, and you and your spouse care for one another. But you threw in the end your lack of self-worth. Is that the price of staying in a sexless marriage? No, the lack of self-worth is only partially due to the SM. While the SM has made it worse, I've carried a lack of set-worth for most of my life. I can name off the top of my head probably 20 things I've screwed up or done wrong. I can probably only think of 5-10 accomplishments. It's sadly the way I'm wired. And while I'm now in therapy for that and other issues, I've been this way so long I can't remember ever feeling different. |
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Post by beachguy on Jul 10, 2017 14:06:54 GMT -5
I disagree! In fact, a large proportion of members here experienced sexual dysfunction shortly after the wedding. In my case the following day, and I am far from alone on that. In these cases, The only way your statement could be correct is that the relationship was already "really toxic" prior to marriage. While I've seen a few cases of that here, it is not typical. There are many here that seem to be reluctant to accept that, at least in the context of SMs that started very early in the marriage, much or all of this is due to significant sexual dysfunction on the part of one of the spouses. Thank-you beachguy I will defer to your experience and hell if I have the statistics right. I think there are two camps Camp 1: The Spouse (H or W) is avers to sex in GENERAL not specific to any individual Camp 2: The Spouse (H or W) is averse to sex but ONLY with their SPECIFIC spouse but not others. My assessment is the majority of SM is due to SPECIFIC individual of the spouse and not Anti-Sex with the world. Somewhere in that mix is High libido vs. Low Libido, and actual medical /psychological conditions (past abuse, biological problem, etc.) In my case it was Specific - though my W definitely had a much lower libido - she still could have in a healthy non-dysfunctional relationship a somewhat normal sex life and intimacy - but not the two of us. In your case, was it "General" or "Specific" ? A medical condition or something? OK, let's take your Camp 2. Let's say the marriage went sexless shortly after the wedding, which happened to me and is very common here. If this is camp 2 then the refusing newlywed is averse only to their spouse but otherwise has a normal functional sex drive. Now explain to me WHY a person with a normal functional sex drive would enter into a monogamous relationship with someone they have no plans to have sex with. Under what scenario would they do that? Why would they commit themselves to a pre-planned lifetime of celibacy? Let's leave out someone intending to outsource regularly to satisfy their sexual needs. I've spent considerable time contemplating this question because it is clear to me that on my wedding day my W had no intention of anything near a "normal" sex life. And for clarity I don't consider once a month a normal, healthy sex drive but feel free to agree to disagree on that if you wish. |
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Post by scrimshaw on Jul 10, 2017 14:10:56 GMT -5
You and your wife have a relationship with affection, love, and you do things together as a couple- that makes a huge difference. Sounds like you have a nice life, family, and wife to cherish. Enjoy each other and be content with what you have because that's the key to happiness. I agree that's how I _should_ feel, and from a logical standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Not to be too flip, but if I could only teach my body to not crave sex, it would be an easy solution for me. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jul 10, 2017 14:50:58 GMT -5
Everything made sense except for the last sentence. Marriage is more than just sex, and you and your spouse care for one another. But you threw in the end your lack of self-worth. Is that the price of staying in a sexless marriage? No, the lack of self-worth is only partially due to the SM. While the SM has made it worse, I've carried a lack of set-worth for most of my life. I can name off the top of my head probably 20 things I've screwed up or done wrong. I can probably only think of 5-10 accomplishments. It's sadly the way I'm wired. And while I'm now in therapy for that and other issues, I've been this way so long I can't remember ever feeling different. I can easily name 20 things that i have screwed up, and i might not even be able to name one thing that i have done right. Ever. But, i will be damned if i ever let myself feel defective or less of a man on the basis of what my stbx thinks again. I just won't see myself as unworthy anymore. |
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Post by beachguy on Jul 10, 2017 15:52:47 GMT -5
@mcroommate, you say your wife has a "somewhat normal but low libido". I tried to find your sexual history somewhere in your posts but it seems to be scattered about. Please tell me how low her libido is. As best you understand her, what is (was) her preferred frequency? (before the toxicity set in- during the good days that lead up to marriage, or maybe the first year of marriage, or whatever)
I have a specific reason for asking this.
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