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Post by solodriver on Jul 1, 2017 23:33:46 GMT -5
About a year ago when I joined this group, I read a lot of other's stories and finally came to the conclusion that what my wife did with our sexual relationship was to use it to control me. After about the 5th year of our marriage, she started with the "if" game. And each time I completed the "if" for that round, low and behold there was another round to play. This went on for several years and once in a while I got the consolation prize of sex. "Please hurry up so I can get to sleep" sex.
Then the pre-menopause excuses started. Then the "I don't feel good because ____________ hurts." And then the finale of post menopause with the "I no longer feel sexual and I'm sorry but we won't be able to do that anymore."
So I finally figured out that she had been using sex to control me and the sex we were having after the 5th year wasn't from romantic love, but it was to keep me "off her back" about it (pun probably intended) and also to keep me "hanging on". Looking back on it now, I realized that's when it should been addressed if there was any hope of change. But the problem was there were no places on the internet that discussed sexless marriages.
I guess I shared all of this to say that which has been said on here before many times. When you become aware of the sexless marriage problem, it needs to be addressed immediately! Because when your companion starts using "if" or "no" every time you try to be romantic with them, then they are telling you that they really no longer feel love for you. Even if there was a medical reason or an accident that occurred, you can still be intimate, if that means just laying naked with each other and kissing and touching. That is love. Without that connection that you get and give, there is no more love and it dies. Then what you think is love is more like obligation, not love.
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Post by baza on Jul 2, 2017 0:01:29 GMT -5
This "control" issue, if you have a really objective look at your relationship, is almost certainly present in many aspects of the relationship.
The "problem" is the need for control in various aspects of the deal, things like finances, domestic duties, sex, friendships, family relationships, where you holiday, parenting, etc etc.
The control problem may be present in some of these things, and in extreme cases, in most of these things.
The fact that the control issue is present even in something as simple as your sex life is a symptom of the wider issue.
Rarely, is sex "THE" problem.
But it certainly IS a highly visible, and highly personal, major symptom of the underlying malaise.
And this "control" can be exercised in different ways.
It can be done "nicely" in sneaky passive aggressive fashion by some spouses.
It can be done brutally and aggressively by some spouses.
It can be very subtely by some spouses.
It can even be done "accidently" by some spouses.
But however it is done, it IS done, and you are effectively disenfranchised as a result.
And back to the three choices you go.
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Post by dinnaken on Jul 2, 2017 3:54:42 GMT -5
I agree with these posts.
In my case my wife was insecure but had a clear idea of what her marriage was going to look like. She did not communicate that vision to me (if she had I would have run a mile); instead she exerted control, first by undermining my self-esteem with constant 'constructive' criticism, trying to isolate me from family and friends all 'nicely' done - as Baza puts it.
It's so weird; we read about things like this in books and newspapers or watch it on TV and I would have thought "He's weak and foolish; or that's ridiculous, it would never happen to me" (or some such) and yet it does - to lots of decent, sensible people, people like me (and you?).
After a few years I worked out what was happening and my recovery started from there; unfortunately, by then there was a child...
So I would add to solodriver's recommendation to address the issue of a sexless marriage "immediately" (personally, I'd suggest run far, run fast as the best solution).
Don't get pregnant, babies are incapable of solving you and your spouse' problems - they only add to them and delay their resolution.
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Post by seabr33z3 on Jul 2, 2017 5:19:17 GMT -5
I agree with these posts. In my case my wife was insecure but had a clear idea of what her marriage was going to look like. She did not communicate that vision to me (if she had I would have run a mile); instead she exerted control, first by undermining my self-esteem with constant 'constructive' criticism, trying to isolate me from family and friends all 'nicely' done - as Baza puts it. It's so weird; we read about things like this in books and newspapers or watch it on TV and I would have thought "He's weak and foolish; or that's ridiculous, it would never happen to me" (or some such) and yet it does - to lots of decent, sensible people, people like me (and you?). After a few years I worked out what was happening and my recovery started from there; unfortunately, by then there was a child... So I would add to solodriver's recommendation to address the issue of a sexless marriage "immediately" (personally, I'd suggest run far, run fast as the best solution). Don't get pregnant, babies are incapable of solving you and your spouse' problems - they only add to them and delay their resolution. How many times have we read the lying headline that states " celebrities A and B are trying for another baby to save their marriage/relationship " and I'm thinking " are you INSANE?". Work on the relationship and then only then consider a child. ** disclaimer..I do realise that media wants to sell/ exploit, but even to put that out there into the minds of young, impressionable people.. *shudder* |
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Post by baza on Jul 2, 2017 5:29:50 GMT -5
Babies, generally, are really good at being babies.
Generally, babies are rotten relationship counsellors.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 2, 2017 14:37:22 GMT -5
Things to hope for: -the end of wars -congress will fix healthcare -refusers will have a change of heart -pigs will fly A sign in my local Jimmy John's sandwich shop: "It turns out, pigs *can* fly... you just have to turn them into sandwiches first." It's a matter of perspective, and solving the problem in an unexpected way. Just like many refusers *can* learn to enjoy sex and intimacy again... with their next partner. We are just stuck trying the obvious option. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jul 6, 2017 12:40:53 GMT -5
So I finally figured out that she had been using sex to control me
How were you able to determine her motivation? |
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Post by solodriver on Jul 6, 2017 12:56:14 GMT -5
So I finally figured out that she had been using sex to control me
How were you able to determine her motivation? Because she no longer initiated intimacy and when I would try to initiate intimacy she would say "Well you need to do such and such, or change such and such" and then when I did and tried to initiate intimacy, she would say it was a bad time, she didn't feel good, or she was having another problem that I needed to work on or something else I needed to change.
After reading about other's experience here, I realized that she was trying to control me, and in fact, she really lost her loving feelings for me. But for many years, I kept trying to do what she asked and then was hurt badly when it never seemed to be enough. I blamed myself for not meeting her "requirements".
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Post by shamwow on Jul 6, 2017 13:01:47 GMT -5
How were you able to determine her motivation? Because she no longer initiated intimacy and when I would try to initiate intimacy she would say "Well you need to do such and such, or change such and such" and then when I did and tried to initiate intimacy, she would say it was a bad time, she didn't feel good, or she was having another problem that I needed to work on or something else I needed to change.
After reading about other's experience here, I realized that she was trying to control me, and in fact, she really lost her loving feelings for me. But for many years, I kept trying to do what she asked and then was hurt badly when it never seemed to be enough. I blamed myself for not meeting her "requirements".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ouch! That one hit close to home. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jul 6, 2017 13:09:57 GMT -5
How were you able to determine her motivation? Because she no longer initiated intimacy and when I would try to initiate intimacy she would say "Well you need to do such and such, or change such and such" and then when I did and tried to initiate intimacy, she would say it was a bad time, she didn't feel good, or she was having another problem that I needed to work on or something else I needed to change.
After reading about other's experience here, I realized that she was trying to control me, and in fact, she really lost her loving feelings for me. But for many years, I kept trying to do what she asked and then was hurt badly when it never seemed to be enough. I blamed myself for not meeting her "requirements".
You speculated that her reason was that she was "trying to control you". The motivations for those behaviours are likely unknown. It's hard to discern another person's motivation. It's often hard to even discern one's own motivation. Not having feelings for someone is a different reason than "trying to control" them. I'd suggest at a simple level that it could be safely assumed that her motivation was to avoid sex with you. That the likely reason to avoid sex with you was because she didn't want to have sex with you, because if you were willing and you had opportunity, it would be an easy thing to do, with few downsides. I can sympathize with "feeling controlled" by one's partner, but that does not mean that one IS controlled by one's partner, nor that control is the intention, rather than a byproduct. |
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Post by beachguy on Jul 6, 2017 13:26:00 GMT -5
Because she no longer initiated intimacy and when I would try to initiate intimacy she would say "Well you need to do such and such, or change such and such" and then when I did and tried to initiate intimacy, she would say it was a bad time, she didn't feel good, or she was having another problem that I needed to work on or something else I needed to change.
After reading about other's experience here, I realized that she was trying to control me, and in fact, she really lost her loving feelings for me. But for many years, I kept trying to do what she asked and then was hurt badly when it never seemed to be enough. I blamed myself for not meeting her "requirements".
You speculated that her reason was that she was "trying to control you". The motivations for those behaviours are likely unknown. It's hard to discern another person's motivation. It's often hard to even discern one's own motivation. Not having feelings for someone is a different reason than "trying to control" them. I'd suggest at a simple level that it could be safely assumed that her motivation was to avoid sex with you. That the likely reason to avoid sex with you was because she didn't want to have sex with you, because if you were willing and you had opportunity, it would be an easy thing to do, with few downsides. I can sympathize with "feeling controlled" by one's partner, but that does not mean that one IS controlled by one's partner, nor that control is the intention, rather than a byproduct. If it were simply that she wanted to avoid sex then she would say so. She would say "I don't want to have sex with you". When the refusal becomes transactional (I'll have sex if you do X) then it is a form of control. It really is as simple as that. I'm surprised you have trouble getting that. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 6, 2017 13:36:35 GMT -5
You speculated that her reason was that she was "trying to control you". The motivations for those behaviours are likely unknown. It's hard to discern another person's motivation. It's often hard to even discern one's own motivation. Not having feelings for someone is a different reason than "trying to control" them. I'd suggest at a simple level that it could be safely assumed that her motivation was to avoid sex with you. That the likely reason to avoid sex with you was because she didn't want to have sex with you, because if you were willing and you had opportunity, it would be an easy thing to do, with few downsides. I can sympathize with "feeling controlled" by one's partner, but that does not mean that one IS controlled by one's partner, nor that control is the intention, rather than a byproduct. If it were simply that she wanted to avoid sex then she would say so. She would say "I don't want to have sex with you". When the refusal becomes transactional (I'll have sex if you do X) then it is a form of control. It really is as simple as that. I'm surprised you have trouble getting that. The refusers never come out and say "I don't want to have sex with you". They make excuses that is part of the manipulation so they can continue with the joke of a marriage. We the refused allow them, enable them to continue abusing us most likely because we have our own damn issues of not advocating for ourselves. |
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Post by solodriver on Jul 6, 2017 13:44:29 GMT -5
Because she no longer initiated intimacy and when I would try to initiate intimacy she would say "Well you need to do such and such, or change such and such" and then when I did and tried to initiate intimacy, she would say it was a bad time, she didn't feel good, or she was having another problem that I needed to work on or something else I needed to change.
After reading about other's experience here, I realized that she was trying to control me, and in fact, she really lost her loving feelings for me. But for many years, I kept trying to do what she asked and then was hurt badly when it never seemed to be enough. I blamed myself for not meeting her "requirements".
You speculated that her reason was that she was "trying to control you". The motivations for those behaviours are likely unknown. It's hard to discern another person's motivation. It's often hard to even discern one's own motivation. Not having feelings for someone is a different reason than "trying to control" them. I'd suggest at a simple level that it could be safely assumed that her motivation was to avoid sex with you. That the likely reason to avoid sex with you was because she didn't want to have sex with you, because if you were willing and you had opportunity, it would be an easy thing to do, with few downsides. I can sympathize with "feeling controlled" by one's partner, but that does not mean that one IS controlled by one's partner, nor that control is the intention, rather than a byproduct. I understand your point. And I allowed myself to be controlled by the situation. So I guess my fault. Silly me.
But for sure it's not going to be a problem going forward
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 6, 2017 13:46:21 GMT -5
If it were simply that she wanted to avoid sex then she would say so. She would say "I don't want to have sex with you". When the refusal becomes transactional (I'll have sex if you do X) then it is a form of control. It really is as simple as that. I'm surprised you have trouble getting that. The refusers never come out and say "I don't want to have sex with you". They make excuses that is part of the manipulation so they can continue with the joke of a marriage. We the refused allow them, enable them to continue abusing us most likely because we have our own damn issues of not advocating for ourselves. Well okay my friend, "They make excuses so they can continue with the joke of a marriage". It's not a joke for them, they are in control, and reaping the benefits, at their spouses expense. They are taking. All is well , as far as they are concerned. I don't want to have sex with you also means, I don't want to give you the slightest amount of CONTROL over me. I don't want to be on a level playing field, I don't want to be the least bit vulnerable. |
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Post by beachguy on Jul 6, 2017 13:48:05 GMT -5
If it were simply that she wanted to avoid sex then she would say so. She would say "I don't want to have sex with you". When the refusal becomes transactional (I'll have sex if you do X) then it is a form of control. It really is as simple as that. I'm surprised you have trouble getting that. The refusers never come out and say "I don't want to have sex with you". They make excuses that is part of the manipulation so they can continue with the joke of a marriage. We the refused allow them, enable them to continue abusing us most likely because we have our own damn issues of not advocating for ourselves. Actually there are a few cases here where refusers have been that blunt. But in most cases, where the refusal is not an attempt at control, they have other reasons. "I have a headache" or "I'm too tired (or stressed or...)", and every other variation on that theme. That's not control, that's an excuse for lack of desire. That is very different than "I don't have sex with you because you don't do X, Y or Z". Or even more blatantly "I'll have sex if you do X, Y or Z" In either case, the spouse doesn't want to have sex. The difference is what they do with that lack of desire, and how they try to leverage it. Controllers know that their sexual partner's hot button is sex. That is the most potent hot button in any normal marriage. Controllers push that button and they are experts at it. |
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