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Post by bballgirl on Jul 6, 2017 13:56:28 GMT -5
The refusers never come out and say "I don't want to have sex with you". They make excuses that is part of the manipulation so they can continue with the joke of a marriage. We the refused allow them, enable them to continue abusing us most likely because we have our own damn issues of not advocating for ourselves. Actually there are a few cases here where refusers have been that blunt. But in most cases, where the refusal is not an attempt at control, they have other reasons. "I have a headache" or "I'm too tired (or stressed or...)", and every other variation on that theme. That's not control, that's an excuse for lack of desire. That is very different than "I don't have sex with you because you don't do X, Y or Z". Or even more blatantly "I'll have sex if you do X, Y or Z" In either case, the spouse doesn't want to have sex. The difference is what they do with that lack of desire, and how they try to leverage it. Controllers know that their sexual partner's hot button is sex. That is the most potent hot button in any normal marriage. Controllers push that button and they are experts at it. I agree with you, it's a lack of desire and excuses that keep us in a fog and we don't help ourselves to get out of the fog until it's too late. Of course this forum was not available when it al started but I hope for younger people they can get out of the fog sooner. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 6, 2017 14:14:34 GMT -5
The refusers never come out and say "I don't want to have sex with you". They make excuses that is part of the manipulation so they can continue with the joke of a marriage. We the refused allow them, enable them to continue abusing us most likely because we have our own damn issues of not advocating for ourselves. Well okay my friend, "They make excuses so they can continue with the joke of a marriage". It's not a joke for them, they are in control, and reaping the benefits, at their spouses expense. They are taking. All is well , as far as they are concerned. I don't want to have sex with you also means, I don't want to give you the slightest amount of CONTROL over me. I don't want to be on a level playing field, I don't want to be the least bit vulnerable. Yes it is a control thing but sex is just one part of marriage. With my ex PERHAPS it was the one thing he felt like he could control with me because I pretty much ran the household, the finances, the children, the social life, etc. That is just a perhaps, and he did control my sexuality for 2 decades but ultimately it backfired on him and he lost his wife, broke up his family, and will work until he dies because he never saved a dime and won't see a penny of my pension. Honestly we were not sexually compatible, he thought I was pretty and attractive but sexually he needed something else. Sexuality is a very personal thing and different people are triggered by different things. He and I had no business getting married. I'm sure if there were dating apps back then and the way society is more casual about sex today he and I would never have married each other. I don't think it's always about control sometimes we just don't want sex with that person but we made a commitment and they are obligated to that for their own selfish reasons. Who knows maybe my ex was planning to divorce me once the kids were 18 to avoid child support? (I honestly don't think that) Well I beat him to it! All I know is he didn't want sex with me and we really aren't compatible. Once out, it's important to have a variety of sex in a safe way to figure out what you are compatible with. To discover your sexuality. |
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Post by shamwow on Jul 6, 2017 14:20:18 GMT -5
Well okay my friend, "They make excuses so they can continue with the joke of a marriage". It's not a joke for them, they are in control, and reaping the benefits, at their spouses expense. They are taking. All is well , as far as they are concerned. I don't want to have sex with you also means, I don't want to give you the slightest amount of CONTROL over me. I don't want to be on a level playing field, I don't want to be the least bit vulnerable. Yes it is a control thing but sex is just one part of marriage. With my ex PERHAPS it was the one thing he felt like he could control with me because I pretty much ran the household, the finances, the children, the social life, etc. That is just a perhaps, and he did control my sexuality for 2 decades but ultimately it backfired on him and he lost his wife, broke up his family, and will work until he dies because he never saved a dime and won't see a penny of my pension. Honestly we were not sexually compatible, he thought I was pretty and attractive but sexually he needed something else. Sexuality is a very personal thing and different people are triggered by different things. He and I had no business getting married. I'm sure if there were dating apps back then and the way society is more casual about sex today he and I would never have married each other. I don't think it's always about control sometimes we just don't want sex with that person but we made a commitment and they are obligated to that for their own selfish reasons. Who knows maybe my ex was planning to divorce me once the kids were 18 to avoid child support? (I honestly don't think that) Well I beat him to it! All I know is he didn't want sex with me and we really aren't compatible. Once out, it's important to have a variety of sex in a safe way to figure out what you are compatible with. To discover your sexuality. One interesting conversation I had with my wife was when I was explaining that we literally had nothing in common. She asked the question "well, then why did we get married?" The answer of "Maybe we shouldn't ha......" got that far out of my mouth before I trailed off. Like you, my wife and I had no business getting married to each other. Also like you it took WAY too long for us to figure that out. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 6, 2017 14:27:31 GMT -5
Yes it is a control thing but sex is just one part of marriage. With my ex PERHAPS it was the one thing he felt like he could control with me because I pretty much ran the household, the finances, the children, the social life, etc. That is just a perhaps, and he did control my sexuality for 2 decades but ultimately it backfired on him and he lost his wife, broke up his family, and will work until he dies because he never saved a dime and won't see a penny of my pension. Honestly we were not sexually compatible, he thought I was pretty and attractive but sexually he needed something else. Sexuality is a very personal thing and different people are triggered by different things. He and I had no business getting married. I'm sure if there were dating apps back then and the way society is more casual about sex today he and I would never have married each other. I don't think it's always about control sometimes we just don't want sex with that person but we made a commitment and they are obligated to that for their own selfish reasons. Who knows maybe my ex was planning to divorce me once the kids were 18 to avoid child support? (I honestly don't think that) Well I beat him to it! All I know is he didn't want sex with me and we really aren't compatible. Once out, it's important to have a variety of sex in a safe way to figure out what you are compatible with. To discover your sexuality. One interesting conversation I had with my wife was when I was explaining that we literally had nothing in common. She asked the question "well, then why did we get married?" The answer of "Maybe we shouldn't ha......" got that far out of my mouth before I trailed off. Like you, my wife and I had no business getting married to each other. Also like you it took WAY too long for us to figure that out. We did have some things in common in the beginning. We went to movies, date night, we both love sports, same kind of movies, but they were his things that I happened to like too. He never took any interest in other things that I liked - going for walks, museums, traveling, etc. As he got older, all he cared about was coaching baseball, watching baseball it was obsessive with zero balance and we grew apart. As well I was 18 when I met him and love is blind. Live and learn. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jul 10, 2017 12:38:12 GMT -5
If it were simply that she wanted to avoid sex then she would say so. She would say "I don't want to have sex with you". When the refusal becomes transactional (I'll have sex if you do X) then it is a form of control. It really is as simple as that. I'm surprised you have trouble getting that. You think it would be that straightforward? It's considered a rare gift on this board when a spouse is straight up enough to say out loud, "I don't want to have sex with you." Few are that declarative, and even then - this is often ignored. Most often, it's posed as some kind of complicated imbalance, with someone being "more sexual" than the other, at least until the separation happens. As for transactional sex, the transactions themselves can simply be another chaffe cloud of hurdles intended to delay and defer. Especially when the goalposts move once the first task is done - and that's also a common result. Eventually it becomes clear that it isn't about the tasks, it's about the deferment of an unwanted task, such as having sex with their spouse. Usually task oriented excuses are buried in a fuzzy cloud of other excuses, like - I'm just about to have my period, having my period, just had my period etc etc etc. Not sure why task oriented excuses need to be taken in a totally different context. With that said, the RESULT is control - if the person enlists in being controlled and having sex based of a transactional basis. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 11:27:58 GMT -5
The refusers never come out and say "I don't want to have sex with you". They make excuses that is part of the manipulation so they can continue with the joke of a marriage. We the refused allow them, enable them to continue abusing us most likely because we have our own damn issues of not advocating for ourselves. Well okay my friend, "They make excuses so they can continue with the joke of a marriage". It's not a joke for them, they are in control, and reaping the benefits, at their spouses expense. They are taking. All is well , as far as they are concerned. I don't want to have sex with you also means, I don't want to give you the slightest amount of CONTROL over me. I don't want to be on a level playing field, I don't want to be the least bit vulnerable. The thread is a little older but I had to chime in. The vulnerability piece is HUGE as far as i'm concerned. Unfortunately, unraveling all of these mysteries takes time so I think it's usually better to just attack the symptom. No willing sex then no marriage. The reasons don't matter unless you've been married 28 years and are trying to justify the whys and hows so your resentment isn't unmanageable. |
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Post by merrygoround on Jul 26, 2017 1:24:20 GMT -5
In my case, it was only in the last two months of my marriage during a very heated discussion that he finally admitted that he had lost desire for me 18 years previously after our youngest was born.
He may as well have sucker punched me. All those years - 20 plus years of me why chasing, trying all sorts to gain his interest, making his life super comfortable and working myself to the bone, losing my personality in the meantime, the facade, confused as he still liked to cuddle and hold hands and kiss....
That one sentence he came out with in that argument and I saw the light. There was no fixing this. All those wasted years. The final nail in the coffin.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 26, 2017 2:39:22 GMT -5
This, to me, is the most unforgivable part about refuser behavior. They will deny the truth and instead have us waste years of our life - discarding something priceless for their selfish benefit. |
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padre
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Age Range: 46-50
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Post by padre on Jul 26, 2017 3:23:22 GMT -5
This, to me, is the most unforgivable part about refuser behavior. They will deny the truth and instead have us waste years of our life - discarding something priceless for their selfish benefit. Although I take my share of the blame in the failure of my first (SM) marriage, and my share of blame in failing to see the signs early (for indeed they were there in spades), this is the part that makes me particularly wistful. You're never too old to find happiness if you're determined; but I'd love to have a few of those years back so I could share them with my current wife. That said, I can't / don't dwell on it. (Perhaps I'm at a stage of my life now where I have that luxury.) The sexless years were very wasted in terms of effort, hope, time, tears. But I can't get them back, no matter how hard I try, and honestly it took what it took to get me to a place where I could see what was going on. In the end, given the right set of events, I could have stayed in that sexless marriage till the day I died, and been honourable enough not to outsource. The fact that I got a different set of events, and made a different set of choices in the face of them, meant that I still had a chance at happiness with (with any luck) around half my life left. My current (and final) wife turned up when the time was right, and so I just plan to enjoy life -- and her -- and do it with gusto. |
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Post by tiredoftears on Jul 26, 2017 4:19:34 GMT -5
In my case, it was only in the last two months of my marriage during a very heated discussion that he finally admitted that he had lost desire for me 18 years previously after our youngest was born. He may as well have sucker punched me. All those years - 20 plus years of me why chasing, trying all sorts to gain his interest, making his life super comfortable and working myself to the bone, losing my personality in the meantime, the facade, confused as he still liked to cuddle and hold hands and kiss.... That one sentence he came out with in that argument and I saw the light. There was no fixing this. All those wasted years. The final nail in the coffin. This seems to be the very path I am headed on. He is still affectionate, holding hands, a peck at bedtime, his hand resting near my knee while we watch t.v., but his sexual interest for me died my third month of pregnancy, and our son is almost 14 months old now. I have repeatedly confronted him about the issue, but nothing gets resolved. I feel like I have no control in my life. No personal pleasures, no personality, and voy, did I have a wild personality before all this. |
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Post by nolongerlonely on Jul 26, 2017 8:08:25 GMT -5
Yes I agree, its the wasted years that I am most upset about. I too was in the 'fog' for years. Imagining it was all my fault, trying to fix it, working even harder at the 'relationship' (More of a dictatorship in fact). Only to confront the question a few years ago and be told I am sexually unattractive, undesirable, dont have the right power of touch etc. Sent me into a downhill psychological spin. Only finding this forum and reading everything reported by everyone else finally got me to wake up and realise I had been wasting my time for well over 20 years. Lets just say, meeting people with common views and similar experiences, spurred me on to get out. And on an ASAP basis. I was scared of facing up to this for years. How stupid was I. I now cant wait to get out. My sex life died the moment we conceived our child, and even that was planned on a calendar. It took me years to figure it out. What a waste. But the future is bright, fantastic in fact.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 26, 2017 11:37:07 GMT -5
This thread is powerful. I feel sad at reading the experiences shared by everyone. Im sorry that you had to live through this.
I do want to express gratitude at the generosity of those that share their stories and experience. There are many of us that are not as far along in the journey that benefit and learn from your experience. I for one and Im sure there are many others that dont even post, am truly grateful for this forum and its predecessor, the EP ILIASM group. It has been a beacon, a lighthouse and foghorn amidst the FOG.
Along the same lines, I chose to journal here for my benefit and sanity. But if those journal entries help others in their journey, well all the better. Thats what this community means to me.
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Post by iceman on Jul 26, 2017 12:14:34 GMT -5
Like you, my wife and I had no business getting married to each other. Also like you it took WAY too long for us to figure that out. For me the really sad part is that I knew we had no business getting married before we were married but I went ahead with for some insane reason I still can't figure out. I've been living with that knowledge for over 20 years. Exhausting ... |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 26, 2017 12:43:09 GMT -5
You speculated that her reason was that she was "trying to control you". The motivations for those behaviours are likely unknown. It's hard to discern another person's motivation. It's often hard to even discern one's own motivation. Not having feelings for someone is a different reason than "trying to control" them. I'd suggest at a simple level that it could be safely assumed that her motivation was to avoid sex with you. That the likely reason to avoid sex with you was because she didn't want to have sex with you, because if you were willing and you had opportunity, it would be an easy thing to do, with few downsides. I can sympathize with "feeling controlled" by one's partner, but that does not mean that one IS controlled by one's partner, nor that control is the intention, rather than a byproduct. I understand your point. And I allowed myself to be controlled by the situation. So I guess my fault. Silly me.
But for sure it's not going to be a problem going forward
My prayer, and hope, for you and me, is that it will not continue in the sexual relation and every other aspect of a relationship, and every aspect of our daily lives. A good turning point is seeing how you are relating to standing up for yourself when dealing with others. Complete strangers, neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc..... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 13:19:27 GMT -5
In my case, it was only in the last two months of my marriage during a very heated discussion that he finally admitted that he had lost desire for me 18 years previously after our youngest was born. He may as well have sucker punched me. All those years - 20 plus years of me why chasing, trying all sorts to gain his interest, making his life super comfortable and working myself to the bone, losing my personality in the meantime, the facade, confused as he still liked to cuddle and hold hands and kiss.... That one sentence he came out with in that argument and I saw the light. There was no fixing this. All those wasted years. The final nail in the coffin. This seems to be the very path I am headed on. He is still affectionate, holding hands, a peck at bedtime, his hand resting near my knee while we watch t.v., but his sexual interest for me died my third month of pregnancy, and our son is almost 14 months old now. I have repeatedly confronted him about the issue, but nothing gets resolved. I feel like I have no control in my life. No personal pleasures, no personality, and voy, did I have a wild personality before all this. If I could offer a bit of hope then. With new/young children it's very hard to determine what path you're on as a couple. If your life as a couple was working fairly well before kids then the stress level (not to mention hormones) has just been turned up which is hard on almost everyone. When my wife was pregnant and then a new Mom, it wasn't that my attraction to her and desire for her had waned, I was just worried about hurting her or the baby. It's also quite easy for Dads to feel a little left out now that the Mom/kid bond is around. If he won't say what the problem is then it's certainly hard for you to sort it out so please persist. Hopefully things will smooth out. Also, take care of yourself. |
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