|
|
Post by misssunnybunny on Jun 17, 2017 21:31:36 GMT -5
Politics aside, the mental health field does our very best to help those in need. I have run into red tape myself and it is very frustrating (seems any large organization has politics and red tape!). I have had to diagnose people, and it is an odd position to have, as what clinicians diagnose is basically a label. It can help the person (now I know why), or harm them (by feeling stigmatized). Personality disorders tend to involve a team approach, and all I have seen have been collaborative and ultimately made by a psychiatrist. Back to the point of this thread, seems baza a couple posts up has a good way of looking at it. The rest can boil down to why-chasing, and that can be unhealthy for *us* Guess I am still a "why" chaser because I am about to enter the "dating world" and don't want to make the same mistake. So it's good to spot the red flags, or the "why" in a persons behavior, or the "why" do I like this person so much? And being able to step back and look at the "why's" in my own codependent, giving , behavior. Yes, fear of making the same mistake is there when we reenter the dating world. Probably why I've not really dated, even after being out a while!  We have our past experience to help, and self-awareness of our own issues is huge in making positive life changes. Take your time, and get support--here, individual counseling (either traditional, through your church, whatever is comfortable for you), support groups. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 17, 2017 21:49:33 GMT -5
It would be very interesting to see if I lost some weight, put myself together more often and got myself back to feeling like a sexually desirable woman if it could ever be (a). I'm not sure if it ever could be. Something makes me get a wee bit concerned the way you said this. One reading of what you are saying is: "I know I've put on weight. Any maybe this is the reason my husband has lost desire for me. So maybe I'm to blame. If I lost weight and were more desirable to him, maybe we'd have a sex life." OK. Maybe. But it is BIG maybe. Maybe if you did all that, he would still not desire you. Maybe he should still be desirous for you even if you are heavier than when he first met you. Maybe you'd feel more desirable if you had an affair, because finding someone who loves making love to you just as you are does WONDERS for the sexual confidence! So, sure. Lose some weight. After all, it is good for you. It will help your self-esteem. That will spread in to many facets of your life. But don't count on that as the formula for "getting him back". Don't do it for him. Do it for future you. And do it for whoever you will be with in the future... |
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Jun 17, 2017 23:21:40 GMT -5
It would be very interesting to see if I lost some weight, put myself together more often and got myself back to feeling like a sexually desirable woman if it could ever be (a). I'm not sure if it ever could be. Something makes me get a wee bit concerned the way you said this. One reading of what you are saying is: "I know I've put on weight. Any maybe this is the reason my husband has lost desire for me. So maybe I'm to blame. If I lost weight and were more desirable to him, maybe we'd have a sex life." OK. Maybe. But it is BIG maybe. Maybe if you did all that, he would still not desire you. Maybe he should still be desirous for you even if you are heavier than when he first met you. Maybe you'd feel more desirable if you had an affair, because finding someone who loves making love to you just as you are does WONDERS for the sexual confidence! So, sure. Lose some weight. After all, it is good for you. It will help your self-esteem. That will spread in to many facets of your life. But don't count on that as the formula for "getting him back". Don't do it for him. Do it for future you. And do it for whoever you will be with in the future... I spent the better part of the past 10 years thinking it was me. It did a great job of ripping down my self-confidence and leading me to depression which in turn led me to gain weight and feel worse about myself. I think I am turning the corner on that now. I still don't feel great about myself but I DO understand that the issue is with HIM and not ME. It took me a while to understand that. And that is why I phrased it as "it would be very interesting to see..." Because it truly would be interesting. But I do not really think it would make a difference. We have never had a good sex life. If he didn't desire me when I was more fit and attractive I'm about 99.99% sure he won't even if I lost the 25lbs I've gained since we've been married and slapped on some lipstick. But to be brutally honest (which is probably more than you bargained for when responding to my post), if I were to get back to feeling better about myself physically and felt sexually desirable again then I would no longer be able and willing to endure this SM. And I am not yet ready to face that so my defense mechanism is staying out of shape and therefore less focused on sex and more easily able to pretend I'm not as unhappy as I am. I do appreciate the thoughts/concern @dan . I am working on it. But I do not blame myself. |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 18, 2017 20:35:46 GMT -5
Sister choosinghappy What you say here - "But to be brutally honest (which is probably more than you bargained for when responding to my post), if I were to get back to feeling better about myself physically and felt sexually desirable again then I would no longer be able and willing to endure this SM. And I am not yet ready to face that so my defense mechanism is staying out of shape and therefore less focused on sex and more easily able to pretend I'm not as unhappy as I am" - is one of the most insightful and bravest posts I have ever read here. |
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Jun 18, 2017 20:50:35 GMT -5
Sister choosinghappy What you say here - "But to be brutally honest (which is probably more than you bargained for when responding to my post), if I were to get back to feeling better about myself physically and felt sexually desirable again then I would no longer be able and willing to endure this SM. And I am not yet ready to face that so my defense mechanism is staying out of shape and therefore less focused on sex and more easily able to pretend I'm not as unhappy as I am" - is one of the most insightful and bravest posts I have ever read here. Wow coming from you baza that is a compliment indeed! Thank you. I like to think I'm at least relatively self aware about my issues even if I'm not brave enough to face them yet. |
|
|
|
Post by JMX on Jun 18, 2017 21:10:08 GMT -5
Personality disorders tie in very strongly to the frequently used saying on here, " except for the sex, we have a great marriage, there a terrific mother or father great husband or wife". Then with a little probing the truth comes out. Doesn't it seem to tie in? Isn't that what comes into play with the SM, the personality disorder? Sure - but I would gather - the personality disorder or "all great bar the sex" actually lies with the refused. |
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Jun 19, 2017 11:17:00 GMT -5
If your spouse is averse to you sexually, there is no chance of you having any sort of sexual life with them. Your chances here are actually WORSE than the chances of a random stranger walking down the street. I'd really like to underline this, because I don't think people truly grasp it -dismissing it as hyperbole. I've seen this illustrated quite literally, on both sides of the equation. Since my separation I've dated quite a few women who were turned off or checked out from their husbands in various ways. "I thought I was a cold fish for a while," and "I was just not really into him at all". Meanwhile, they were VERY into me and didn't strike me as cold fish at all. I'm not a model, but I'm maybe cute/handsome with a dadbod average level of fitness. Most of their husbands were *remarkably* handsome men. Invariably, there was some kind disconnection or falling out in a distant past that became clear much later, out of the relationship. And of course, there was Mrs Apocrypha, who despite over a decade in which intimacy was increasingly and issue until it reached crisis levels - she jumped VERY quickly and easily into dating and having sex on whatever terms she wanted. She was passive-aggressively indiscrete and I got to see how heart breakingly easy it was for her to get to "yes" - both after the marriage and during our relationship 2.0 period in which we were consensually non-monogamous. I'd wager few people on this forum have ever had it laid out so clearly and with such undeniable proof. Once there, I realized that my chances were literally worse, than that of a random stranger of having a robust sex life with that woman. Consider, our spouses at this point realize that the marriage, their home, the family, their lifestyle, your esteem and hurt feelings if they do care for you and respect you as a person (which many do, even love you) - that it ALL is at risk. And they still won't fuck you. That's not indifference. It's not that sex is unimportant. It's that AVOIDING the sex with YOU is so important that it is worth risking all that. It's worth the cost of overriding their OWN libido, to them. As such, they experience it as YOU blowing up the marriage selfishly because YOU won't play ball with them and endure the avoidance of sex quietly. It might be helpful for those who still cling to the lottery ticket of "one day, it might be different again if I do X". Think of someone you dated in your past who you later became disinterested in to the point that you avoided sex that they wanted. Can you EVER imagine suddenly wanting sex with them again, as compared with a randoms stranger with whom you did not feel avoidant? |
|
|
|
Post by h on Jun 19, 2017 14:24:07 GMT -5
Something makes me get a wee bit concerned the way you said this. One reading of what you are saying is: "I know I've put on weight. Any maybe this is the reason my husband has lost desire for me. So maybe I'm to blame. If I lost weight and were more desirable to him, maybe we'd have a sex life." OK. Maybe. But it is BIG maybe. Maybe if you did all that, he would still not desire you. Maybe he should still be desirous for you even if you are heavier than when he first met you. Maybe you'd feel more desirable if you had an affair, because finding someone who loves making love to you just as you are does WONDERS for the sexual confidence! So, sure. Lose some weight. After all, it is good for you. It will help your self-esteem. That will spread in to many facets of your life. But don't count on that as the formula for "getting him back". Don't do it for him. Do it for future you. And do it for whoever you will be with in the future... I spent the better part of the past 10 years thinking it was me. It did a great job of ripping down my self-confidence and leading me to depression which in turn led me to gain weight and feel worse about myself. I think I am turning the corner on that now. I still don't feel great about myself but I DO understand that the issue is with HIM and not ME. It took me a while to understand that. And that is why I phrased it as "it would be very interesting to see..." Because it truly would be interesting. But I do not really think it would make a difference. We have never had a good sex life. If he didn't desire me when I was more fit and attractive I'm about 99.99% sure he won't even if I lost the 25lbs I've gained since we've been married and slapped on some lipstick. But to be brutally honest (which is probably more than you bargained for when responding to my post), if I were to get back to feeling better about myself physically and felt sexually desirable again then I would no longer be able and willing to endure this SM. And I am not yet ready to face that so my defense mechanism is staying out of shape and therefore less focused on sex and more easily able to pretend I'm not as unhappy as I am. I do appreciate the thoughts/concern @dan . I am working on it. But I do not blame myself. I've been doing the same thing for different reasons. I'm not putting any effort into my own health or fitness in an effort to curb testosterone levels. I'm not much different than when I got married but I know I am overweight. Why get healthy or in shape and possibly ramp up my sex drive if I know for a fact that it won't be fulfilled? I'll admit, I am getting more sex now since I started pressing the issue but still not enough to satisfy my already diminished drive. I certainly don't want to do anything that could increase my drive. |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 19, 2017 22:30:02 GMT -5
"I've been doing the same thing for different reasons. I'm not putting any effort into my own health or fitness in an effort to curb testosterone levels. I'm not much different than when I got married but I know I am overweight. Why get healthy or in shape and possibly ramp up my sex drive if I know for a fact that it won't be fulfilled? I'll admit, I am getting more sex now since I started pressing the issue but still not enough to satisfy my already diminished drive. I certainly don't want to do anything that could increase my drive" There is an air of resignation in the above Brother h Like an assumption that your marriage is always going to be this way (probably a correct assumption) but further assumes that you are always going to be in this marriage (which is not necessarily so - or need not necessarily be so). Humour me here in this scenario. Mrs h goes under a bus in 2019. In 2020, you meet this chick at a Barry Manilow concert. She's a cracker. Scenario #1 You, having taken diligent care of yourself since 2017 present quite an attractive package to this chick, and you think she is pretty cool too. I wonder what might then happen. Scenario #2 You have neglected yourself since 2017 and present as a fat unkempt slob to this chick. What would then happen - or rather NOT happen - I think is pretty predictable. Whatever choices you make today, will have their pay off (or penalty) in your future. |
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Jun 19, 2017 22:35:17 GMT -5
"I've been doing the same thing for different reasons. I'm not putting any effort into my own health or fitness in an effort to curb testosterone levels. I'm not much different than when I got married but I know I am overweight. Why get healthy or in shape and possibly ramp up my sex drive if I know for a fact that it won't be fulfilled? I'll admit, I am getting more sex now since I started pressing the issue but still not enough to satisfy my already diminished drive. I certainly don't want to do anything that could increase my drive" There is an air of resignation in the above Brother h Like an assumption that your marriage is always going to be this way (probably a correct assumption) but further assumes that you are always going to be in this marriage (which is not necessarily so - or need not necessarily be so). Humour me here in this scenario. Mrs h goes under a bus in 2019. In 2020, you meet this chick at a Barry Manilow concert. She's a cracker. Scenario #1 You, having taken diligent care of yourself since 2017 present quite an attractive package to this chick, and you think she is pretty cool too. I wonder what might then happen. Scenario #2 You have neglected yourself since 2017 and present as a fat unkempt slob to this chick. What would then happen - or rather NOT happen - I think is pretty predictable. Whatever choices you make today, will have their pay off (or penalty) in your future. I think the real question here though is: Do we really think brother h would ever be at a Barry Manilow concert?  anonymous image hosting |
|
|
|
Post by h on Jun 20, 2017 5:23:08 GMT -5
I think the real question here though is: Do we really think brother h would ever be at a Barry Manilow concert? anonymous image hostingI'm not much of a concert goer anyway but I can put a great big NO on Barry Manilow. |
|
|
|
Post by merrygoround on Jun 20, 2017 5:59:10 GMT -5
C'mon now, I can see us all singing along to Copa Cabana at the ILIASM karaoke!
|
|
|
|
Post by nolongerlonely on Jun 20, 2017 7:52:58 GMT -5
Never mind Mr. Manilow, I want these unicorns to put in an appearance, like the ones' in beachguy 's garden. Woohoo. As far as the rest of the thread is concerned, I'm definitely at the end of the scale baza created, asking 10 random people for sex would have a more likely success rate than my spouse. In fact, I'm off to the supermarket in a few minutes. I'm buying steak, ready for my black eye :-) |
|
|
|
Post by WindSister on Jun 20, 2017 8:08:43 GMT -5
Robust? I'm going to go with slim to none with my current partner... I believe (b) is the accurate selection for my H but I have, of course, let myself go over the years due to feeling unwanted, depressed, plus 2 pregnancies, etc. It would be very interesting to see if I lost some weight, put myself together more often and got myself back to feeling like a sexually desirable woman if it could ever be (a). I'm not sure if it ever could be. Sad (but helpful) realization. Thanks baza . I struggled my whole first marriage with depression and weight and anxiety. It was the environment (and my marriage) NOT all my fault. But it was all my responsibility to remedy the situation. (get out) Turns out I don't have to struggle so hard to be a healthy weight and/or happy after all. Depression (looks a lot like "letting ourselves go") is telling us something always. |
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Jun 20, 2017 8:21:42 GMT -5
Personality disorders tie in very strongly to the frequently used saying on here, " except for the sex, we have a great marriage, there a terrific mother or father great husband or wife". Then with a little probing the truth comes out. Doesn't it seem to tie in? Isn't that what comes into play with the SM, the personality disorder? Sure - but I would gather - the personality disorder or "all great bar the sex" actually lies with the refused. I agree with you there. Most women would not have stayed married to my H. Some would have left him year one. I had reason to. It was a lack of self confidence and being embarrassed that my H doesn't want to have sex with me that led to my self imprisonment. I recognize my role in the dysfunction of the marriage. |
|
We have our past experience to help, and self-awareness of our own issues is huge in making positive life changes. Take your time, and get support--here, individual counseling (either traditional, through your church, whatever is comfortable for you), support groups. 
