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Post by baza on Jun 11, 2017 23:59:28 GMT -5
In the context of an ILIASM shithole deal, *you*- the more dis-satisfied spouse - do not have a real lot of tricks up your sleeve. You are not holding a real good hand. You do not have a real lot of tools in your bag. One of, if not *the best*, is your credibility. The fact that if you say something, whoever you said it to can take it to the bank that you mean it, and will follow through on it. This credibility is a HUGE - absolutely HUGE - asset to have in dealing with an ILIASM shithole. It puts you in the drivers' seat, you know what the score is, and so does everyone else. It is a huge asset in your armoury. On the other hand, it can be your worst enemy. Particularly if you are prone to saying things you don't mean, or make threats that you are not prepared to carry out. An example, if you say stuff like "I will divorce you if you do that again", or "I will have an affair if that's your attitude", or "I will leave you unless you ----", then the spouses errant behaviour continues and you do not follow through with your statement, then the spouse knows that you are full of shit, and need not be taken seriously. You have shred your cred. And, put yourself backward by months if not years. Trying to re-establish your cred is extraordinarily difficult. The starting point is to adopt a policy of not saying shit that you do not mean, starting small. An example -Sister tiffanyc recently had a rotten wedding anniversary (the story is up if you want to read it) but when her spouse asked what was up, she said "I'm fine". You are probably best served in such a situation to say nothing, or instead say something pretty banal like maybe - "Yeah, I'm a bit pissed off, but I don't feel up to discussing this at this time" - and then do NOT engage in discussing it at this time. In little increments you will rebuild your cred, and be ready to take on the more challenging issues. Keep saying what you mean, and back it up with confirming action. Avoid - at all costs - saying shit that you do not mean. Don't shred your cred. Practice practice practice. Do not say shit you do not mean. Do not make threats that you are not prepared to carry out. Cultivate a persona where your spouse knows that if you say something, it's true, and you'll act on it if need be. It will make things a whole lot more manageable when you get to the big issues at the end game. If you get to the point where you are going to play the best card in the pack - "I am leaving you" - then you absolutely have to be in a place where you are not bullshitting, and mean every word of it, and have a do-able plan to execute it. That's quite a while off for most of us probably. But in the here and now, today, "Do not say shit that you do not mean" Don't shred your cred. It is potentially the best tool in your kit. |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 12, 2017 0:05:14 GMT -5
In the context of an ILIASM shithole deal, *you*- the more dis-satisfied spouse - do not have a real lot of tricks up your sleeve. You are not holding a real good hand. You do not have a real lot of tools in your bag. One of, if not *the best*, is your credibility. The fact that if you say something, whoever you said it to can take it to the bank that you mean it, and will follow through on it. This credibility is a HUGE - absolutely HUGE - asset to have in dealing with an ILIASM shithole. It puts you in the drivers' seat, you know what the score is, and so does everyone else. It is a huge asset in your armoury. On the other hand, it can be your worst enemy. Particularly if you are prone to saying things you don't mean, or make threats that you are not prepared to carry out. An example, if you say stuff like "I will divorce you if you do that again", or "I will have an affair if that's your attitude", or "I will leave you unless you ----", then the spouses errant behaviour continues and you do not follow through with your statement, then the spouse knows that you are full of shit, and need not be taken seriously. You have shred your cred. And, put yourself backward by months if not years. Trying to re-establish your cred is extraordinarily difficult. The starting point is to adopt a policy of not saying shit that you do not mean, starting small. An example -Sister tiffanyc recently had a rotten wedding anniversary (the story is up if you want to read it) but when her spouse asked what was up, she said "I'm fine". You are probably best served in such a situation to say nothing, or instead say something pretty banal like maybe - "Yeah, I'm a bit pissed off, but I don't feel up to discussing this at this time" - and then do NOT engage in discussing it at this time. In little increments you will rebuild your cred, and be ready to take on the more challenging issues. Keep saying what you mean, and back it up with confirming action. Avoid - at all costs - saying shit that you do not mean. Don't shred your cred. Practice practice practice. Do not say shit you do not mean. Do not make threats that you are not prepared to carry out. Cultivate a persona where your spouse knows that if you say something, it's true, and you'll act on it if need be. It will make things a whole lot more manageable when you get to the big issues at the end game. If you get to the point where you are going to play the best card in the pack - "I am leaving you" - then you absolutely have to be in a place where you are not bullshitting, and mean every word of it, and have a do-able plan to execute it. That's quite a while off for you probably. But in the here and now, today, "Do not say shit that you do not mean" Don't shred your cred. It is potentially the best tool in your kit. You're right. I probably should have remained silent. Yet "I'm fine" seems to be my fallback whenever I don't wish to discuss something with him. Maybe I need to find a different one.🤔 |
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Post by baza on Jun 12, 2017 0:30:29 GMT -5
Sister tiffanyc - nothing wrong with having a fallback position, and silence IS better than saying something you don't mean. See, in your specific case, I'd be betting that your spouse poses the question "Are you alright ?" in the full knowledge that you are going to say "I'm fine" which means you give him a free pass. "There's no issue, I need do nothing. She says she's fine". And, of course there is the possibility that he is putting you under subtle pressure to say "I'm fine", thus awarding himself a free pass. You've said in another post words to the effect that you don't talk to people about his jerk behaviour because you are afraid it might get back to him. What do you figure would happen *if* you talked to someone and *if* it did get back to him ? What are you frightened of ? |
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 12, 2017 7:27:05 GMT -5
Great advice, thank you. No more "I am fine" for me
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 12, 2017 7:55:21 GMT -5
Sister tiffanyc - nothing wrong with having a fallback position, and silence IS better than saying something you don't mean. See, in your specific case, I'd be betting that your spouse poses the question "Are you alright ?" in the full knowledge that you are going to say "I'm fine" which gives him a free pass. "There's no issue, I need do nothing. She says she's fine". And, of course there is the possibility that he is putting you under subtle pressure to say "I'm fine", thus awarding himself a free pass. You've said in another post words to the effect that you don't talk to people about his jerk behaviour because you are afraid it might get back to him. What do you figure would happen *if* you talked to someone and *if* it did get back to him ? What are you frightened of ? It causing an argument. I hate fighting over stupid crap like that |
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Post by baza on Jun 12, 2017 8:00:05 GMT -5
Might as well keep digging I guess Sister tiffanyc. - "Why" do you hate it causing an arguement ? What are you frightened of ? |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 12, 2017 8:01:36 GMT -5
Might as well keep digging I guess Sister tiffanyc. - "Why" do you hate it causing an arguement ? What are you frightened of ? He's not physical if that's what you're thinking. It's just arguing doesn't accomplish anything and I hate getting all mad and rilled up |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 12, 2017 8:04:29 GMT -5
tiffanyc - how you feel is not "stupid crap" If you won't say what you think or how you feel, nothing changes & all of life gets lived "his way" I say this for/to myself as much as to you. I was my own worst enemy when I used to think this way. I'm not completely changed over yet, but I have made progress on becoming a better advocate for myself. How I feel about stuff IS important. I'm still slow to figure it out, within my own head & heart. But if I have it figured out, & try to share it with someone I think is important in my life, & they won't listen or don't care - then I have placed my faith in the wrong person. I want to be around people who DO care what I'm feeling & want to hear it. You deserve to have people in your life who are supportive. But you do have find the courage to do your part by sharing your true self in words. People can't read my mind. I have to learn to SAY what I feel (once I have figured it out). You count, sweetheart, & the people in our lives should be the ones that agree that we do count. Good luck!
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 12, 2017 8:06:53 GMT -5
I used to say
I am fine a lot too.
It got me nowhere. It's a lack of communication and I was pretty far from fine!
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 12, 2017 8:10:27 GMT -5
tiffanyc - how you feel is not "stupid crap" If you won't say what you think or how you feel, nothing changes & all of life gets lived "his way" I say this for/to myself as much as to you. I was my own worst enemy when I used to think this way. I'm not completely changed over yet, but I have made progress on becoming a better advocate for myself. How I feel about stuff IS important. I'm still slow to figure it out, within my own head & heart. But if I have it figured out, & try to share it with someone I think is important in my life, & they won't listen or don't care - then I have placed my faith in the wrong person. I want to be around people who DO care what I'm feeling & want to hear it. You deserve to have people in your life who are supportive. But you do have find the courage to do your part by sharing your true self in words. People can't read my mind. I have to learn to SAY what I feel (once I have figured it out). You count, sweetheart, & the people in our lives should be the ones that agree that we do count. Good luck! Thanks for this. I know my feelings and thoughts matter. |
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 12, 2017 8:22:41 GMT -5
I think I am going to change I am fine to You're f**$$ killing me. I wish I was exaggerating but I'm not. Not taking me to emergency room when I was in xanax withdrawal when I because she doesn't believe in Xanax withdrawal. Then said she was happy I was suffering because maybe I would get over it. Said happy. Awake for 36 hours until could get refill. Google xanax withdrawal and then combine that with C-PTSD, words can't describe...
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Post by petrushka on Jun 12, 2017 8:26:45 GMT -5
I, too, hate arguments. I really, really hate arguments.
But does that mean I will abuse myself, abase myself? Allow myself to be abused?
No.
actually: NO.
I can be non confrontational about it (learning to fight, fight fair, is ever so important).
I can say "I am not very happy just now, but I don't want to talk about it this instance" I will not say "I'm fine" when I am not.
I can say, if the other person starts to dig: "I told you I don't want to talk about it because I don't want to get into an argument,
but if you keep digging that is what will happen".
I get to pick and choose. I don't have to get angry about crumbs on the chopping board if I choose not to. I don't have to
get angry about a stack of dirty dishes on the bench, because I can wash them. But if somebody crosses a line that is actually
important to my life, my wants, my needs: why on earth would I not come out about it. That would make me complicit
in destroying my happiness, that would make me complicit in - relationship wise - pissing my life against the wall because
if I don't speak up for myself I will never have a chance at getting what I want.
Also: I hate lies even more than arguments. So if somebody asks me how I feel and I'm sad, or working up a head of steam,
or just generally miserable --- they will get the truth. They may get "I need alone time" or they may get "I don't really want
to get into it right now" if I think it would be fruitless to talk, but they will get the real answer. If I just gloss over it, how
will they ever be able to figure out what is going on and react appropriately? If I pretend to be fine when I am not, how
are they supposed to figure out that they need to care for me?
Lastly: I do have days where I wake up and I'm in pain, or just very grumpy, or peevish ... it happens about once every other
year. I will tell people to just leave me alone and not poke the sleeping bear with a stick. That way, if they cop a load, a frown
or a grumpy answer, they can not claim they weren't warned .....
All this is part of your credibility too, you know. To be a genuine, truthful person. The reactions can be surprising, although I also
find that some people just can't cope with it and it scares them off. Fine by me, to be honest, I don't really think those are the
people who have much of a contribution to make to my life.
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 12, 2017 8:33:02 GMT -5
Conversion Disorder video trigger warning this is probably disturbing so please don't watch if sensitive. 45 min of this a week for past year to save my marriage yes I tried. This is what C-PTSD is like,
conscious and aware through this. Therapist thought it was panic attacks or something. I found conversion disorder by googling flashback seuzure, after a year. I was having a bad in and wife started hitting me and yelling to snap out of it. Not helpful
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Post by shamwow on Jun 12, 2017 8:38:47 GMT -5
baza, How does this apply to a relationship in which nothing is said? Roommates living together, not fighting. Not arguing, not talking, not really giving a shit. Or in relationship when just one side ever talks (this is closer to mine... I'll let you guess who the talker is).
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 12, 2017 8:48:41 GMT -5
I, too, hate arguments. I really, really hate arguments. But does that mean I will abuse myself, abase myself? Allow myself to be abused? No. actually: NO. I can be non confrontational about it (learning to fight, fight fair, is ever so important). I can say "I am not very happy just now, but I don't want to talk about it this instance" I will not say "I'm fine" when I am not. I can say, if the other person starts to dig: "I told you I don't want to talk about it because I don't want to get into an argument, but if you keep digging that is what will happen". I get to pick and choose. I don't have to get angry about crumbs on the chopping board if I choose not to. I don't have to get angry about a stack of dirty dishes on the bench, because I can wash them. But if somebody crosses a line that is actually important to my life, my wants, my needs: why on earth would I not come out about it. That would make me complicit in destroying my happiness, that would make me complicit in - relationship wise - pissing my life against the wall because if I don't speak up for myself I will never have a chance at getting what I want. Also: I hate lies even more than arguments. So if somebody asks me how I feel and I'm sad, or working up a head of steam, or just generally miserable --- they will get the truth. They may get "I need alone time" or they may get "I don't really want to get into it right now" if I think it would be fruitless to talk, but they will get the real answer. If I just gloss over it, how will they ever be able to figure out what is going on and react appropriately? If I pretend to be fine when I am not, how are they supposed to figure out that they need to care for me? Lastly: I do have days where I wake up and I'm in pain, or just very grumpy, or peevish ... it happens about once every other year. I will tell people to just leave me alone and not poke the sleeping bear with a stick. That way, if they cop a load, a frown or a grumpy answer, they can not claim they weren't warned ..... All this is part of your credibility too, you know. To be a genuine, truthful person. The reactions can be surprising, although I also find that some people just can't cope with it and it scares them off. Fine by me, to be honest, I don't really think those are the people who have much of a contribution to make to my life. Yes that's the biggest thing I took away from what I did wrong in my marriage. I was too complacent. Too many " I am fine's". If I'm ever in another relationship, "this is bothering me", will be my go to line. I think there were different reasons why I was not more proactive about my unhappiness- I just don't believe in making someone do something they don't want to do. With my ex, it was not just about lack of sex, it was lack of attention to the kids unless it was for baseball, lack of responsibility and reliability with gambling problems, tardiness, he was like a child. I would on occasion complain about the lack of sex and all the other issues but for the most part I just picked up the slack, worked harder and got things taken care of. I would tell him that one day I'll be done with him. He didn't believe it obviously but that day came in the Fall of 2015, and I am better off for it. |
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