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Post by Dan on Jun 12, 2017 8:59:53 GMT -5
Great advice, thank you. No more "I am fine" for me I used to say "I am fine" a lot too. Women: if you insist on using "I am fine" as a brush off, make sure the man in your life has read this: www.tymson.com.au/dictionary.htmlAs long as he is well aware of your use of "fine" and the other terms listed there everything will be... fine.  |
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 12, 2017 9:00:11 GMT -5
I think women as a stereotype do have a canned answer to "are you ok" type questions, and that canned answer is "I'm fine".
Guys better damn well understand that "I'm fine" is coded language, and it means you are at the top of her shit list.
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Post by WindSister on Jun 12, 2017 9:04:01 GMT -5
I cannot love this topic and the input enough. It is needed in all of life, not just while in a SM. It makes all relationships better, actually.
Know yourself.
Be direct. (don't make people read minds)
Be honest.
Yes - say what you mean and mean what you say.
I also appreciated P's input of learning to argue fairly. You don't have to be "brutal" to be honest.
Breathe. Think. Speak Truth.
I actually get very quiet now when I am confronted or feeling upset/angry. I get quiet, I breathe, I think of how I am feeling and what I want the other person to know and/or do and then I say it.
Part of the ability to do that has come with increased self-love and self-confidence.
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Post by Dan on Jun 12, 2017 9:10:30 GMT -5
Know yourself. Be direct. (don't make people read minds) Be honest. Yes - say what you mean and mean what you say. I particularly like "know yourself". Combining it with item 3, I'd say "be honest with yourself". If you or your doctor misdiagnose an illness, you will likely get the wrong treatment. If you are not honest with yourself, you are likely to choose next steps in life that DON'T make you happier and that ARE NOT the cause of progress in your relationships and life. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 12, 2017 9:13:34 GMT -5
I usually agree with Baz, but this time I have a different viewpoint. He suggested silence would have been a better response by Tiffany when on their anniversary, he asked what was wrong and she lied and said, "I'm fine."
Silence under such situations is stonewalling, one of the 4 predictors of divorce. It seems to be a hallmark of tiffany's behavior in their marriage. Her husband comments about other women's figures and Tiffany bites her tongue. She self published a book and doesn't tell him but feels resentful that he doesn't support her achievements.
Speaking up by saying something like, "I'm hurt that we aren't celebrating our anniversary" could have opened the door to their figuring out a solution.
I know that lots of time her husband comes across as a dick in her posts even though she is the refuser. I think it's important for folks here, who mostly are the refused, to not only realize that her perspective may be similar to that of your refuser but also sometimes the refused are in the wrong. It takes 2 to create or maintain a dysfunctional union. Sometimes the refused' contribution was overlooking red flags and marrying an incompatible partner. Sometimes the refused may have closed their ears to their partner's concerns.
In tiffany's situation, when I try to consider her partner's perspective one major thing stands out: he is the sole wage earner after agreeing to her quitting her job, which she did not like. He also agreed to her not seeking other employment due to her not liking options in her town. Thus, he has the strain of more financial responsibility while she gets more time with her writing hobby.
She has said he starts his day at 5:30 and he gets up and immediately starts complaining, waking her up.
She has said he complains about the untidy house. Her excuse is that she is not good at that sort of thing. Since their kids are teens, the house isn't messy because she is taking care of babies and toddlers.
Now she is feeling resentful because he hadn't made plans for their anniversary celebration on a day that he works.
If we try to look at the marriage through his eyes, he may be feeling resentful and unappreciated since he is carrying more of the economic load when she gets to live a relatively carefree life. He may be feeling resentful also that despite his job, he is working out and keeping a very fit body while it may seem to him that she is just spending her time resting.
He also may feel that since she doesn't work, she should take responsibility for things like their anniversary celebrations. It does go two ways. She could do something special for him on such a day. Just think about how many of the refused here have complained that they didn't get any kind of sex on their anniversary. If she's still menstruating, she could have awakened him with a bj.
As is typical with SMS, problems go deeper than lack of enough sex.
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Post by WindSister on Jun 12, 2017 9:18:16 GMT -5
Great advice, thank you. No more "I am fine" for me I used to say "I am fine" a lot too. Women: if you insist on using "I am fine" as a brush off, make sure the man in your life has read this: www.tymson.com.au/dictionary.htmlAs long as he is well aware of your use of "fine" and the other terms listed there everything will be... fine. I can appreciate the humor of that link (kinda - but, actually, since surviving a dysfunctional relationship I don't find the standard "relationship jokes" funny at all anymore)... but I hate that the list exists at all. Nothing worse than passive aggressiveness. In men or women, but yes, this is one of those traits that have been pegged on females more. Passive Aggressiveness is lying. You are a LIAR if you are not honest. Point blank. I say it in that extreme to avoid falling into that lying trap myself. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 12, 2017 9:25:29 GMT -5
Women: if you insist on using "I am fine" as a brush off, make sure the man in your life has read this: www.tymson.com.au/dictionary.htmlAs long as he is well aware of your use of "fine" and the other terms listed there everything will be... fine. I can appreciate the humor of that link (kinda - but, actually, since surviving a dysfunctional relationship I don't find the standard "relationship jokes" funny at all anymore)... but I hate that the list exists at all. Nothing worse than passive aggressiveness. In men or women, but yes, this is one of those traits that have been pegged on females more. Passive Aggressiveness is lying. You are a LIAR if you are not honest. Point blank. I say it in that extreme to avoid falling into that lying trap myself. I realize the list is at best tongue-in-cheek, and at worse indulging in a not-so-helpful stereotype of the passive-aggressive female. I think the list's value in this discussion is exactly because it is an uncomfortable stereotype... with its germ of "truth". I'd like ANYONE (male or female) whoever uses "no, I'm fine" or "FINE!" as a brush-off to realize that it is bad news. Don't be passive-aggressive. Be authentic. It is harder. No one ever said that being your true self was going to be EASY... but it is BETTER. |
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Post by petrushka on Jun 12, 2017 9:28:51 GMT -5
Conversion Disorder video trigger warning this is probably disturbing so please don't watch if sensitive. 45 min of this a week for past year to save my marriage yes I tried. This is what C-PTSD is like, conscious and aware through this. Therapist thought it was panic attacks or something. I found conversion disorder by googling flashback seuzure, after a year. I was having a bad in and wife started hitting me and yelling to snap out of it. Not helpful I just wonder this: Has your wife ever had it explained to her by someone who understands what is going on, what is going on? A doctor, an expert, a therapist or counselor? Her reaction is the reaction of someone who does not understand what's happening, or the reaction of someone who is totally insensitive, or the reaction of someone who is herself in a state of panic. I know for a fact that, if you had one of your episodes in front of MY wife, her rational thinking ability would go out the window. Yelling at someone to 'pull yourself together' or 'snap out of it' or 'put your girl/big boy pants on' has never cured anyone of anxiety, depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, .... it just doesn't work that way. To do so just shows ignorance. I wish I could refer you to Prof Reykovsky, but his book has, to the best of my knowledge, never been translated into English (he's Polish, I read a German translation). His book is 'psychology of emotion'. it explains a lot about the facts of how emotions are linked to physical factors, and vice versa. He explains how, if you think about it, the anticipation of seeing a loved one as you are racing up the stairs to her apartment can be the exact physical stimulus of having a big guy charge at you, swinging a hammer. This shit can get really really confusing. So different things going on, can have one and the same outcome (for instance your seizures) while one and the same thing going on can have totally different outcomes (something that makes my wife shut down and blank out will make me ice cold, slow down time and speed me up; something that makes another person melt inside may give me a belly laugh). So what I'm trying to say is: your therapist was guessing at panic attack, because a panic attack can present like this. And something else can, also. But, just hypothetically, it could also be something like ... you once hurt someone terribly, the situation triggers that traumatic experience, you don't want to hurt another person the same way, no, no NO and your body ends up locking up the same way. These are physiologic reactions to trauma or extreme stress. Most rabbits will take off when you scare them. Some rabbits will sit there, paralyzed, shaking. This works for humans too. The trick is coming at this sideways, and getting your mind to reinterpret certain stimuli, or teaching your body to react differently. What they're trying with you is a form of desensitization therapy with a twist. But that doesn't always work. Physical desensitization never got rid of my cat allergy ... which is a weak example, but. Sometimes time is the cure. After a very traumatic breakup I went through about 8 years where, if a woman came on to me, I'd go paralyzed in my arms, limp, standing up, could not hug while at the same time I was perfectly able to hug people of both gender who were not coming on to me. Friends, acquaintances, perfect strangers. I'd been hurt badly, and my mind/body system kind of decided that I should not be hurt the same way again. Eventually that just went away and I learned to trust again. Just time did it for me. I simply didn't do anything stupid because I knew: this, too, shall pass, and there will be better times ahead. Some times it's better to be the willow that bends with the wind than the oak that breaks and falls over. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 12, 2017 9:36:56 GMT -5
My ex stonewalled. For instance,I'd calmly bring up my concerns about or SM. He'd furrow his brow like he was thinking, but would say nothing. If I asked a follow up, he would complain that he felt pressured. I went from waiting a few minutes to follow up to waiting a week, waiting a year and then finally giving up. At that poin,t the marriage was on its death bed. I felt more emotionally connected to even store clerks and other casual acquaintances than I did to him.
When I finally asked for a divorce, he easily acquiesced. He had left me emotionally long before I took the hint. Our marriage was ashes.
I had long thought he was resentful and angry with me about something. I'd ask, but he denied feeling that way. I still think his stonewalling was a passive display of anger. I no longer care why. I'm just glad I'm out of that arid marriage.
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 12, 2017 9:43:45 GMT -5
Conversion Disorder video trigger warning this is probably disturbing so please don't watch if sensitive. 45 min of this a week for past year to save my marriage yes I tried. This is what C-PTSD is like, conscious and aware through this. Therapist thought it was panic attacks or something. I found conversion disorder by googling flashback seuzure, after a year. I was having a bad in and wife started hitting me and yelling to snap out of it. Not helpful I just wonder this: Has your wife ever had it explained to her by someone who understands what is going on, what is going on? A doctor, an expert, a therapist or counselor? Her reaction is the reaction of someone who does not understand what's happening, or the reaction of someone who is totally insensitive, or the reaction of someone who is herself in a state of panic. I know for a fact that, if you had one of your episodes in front of MY wife, her rational thinking ability would go out the window. Yelling at someone to 'pull yourself together' or 'snap out of it' or 'put your girl/big boy pants on' has never cured anyone of anxiety, depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, .... it just doesn't work that way. To do so just shows ignorance. I wish I could refer you to Prof Reykovsky, but his book has, to the best of my knowledge, never been translated into English (he's Polish, I read a German translation). His book is 'psychology of emotion'. it explains a lot about the facts of how emotions are linked to physical factors, and vice versa. He explains how, if you think about it, the anticipation of seeing a loved one as you are racing up the stairs to her apartment can be the exact physical stimulus of having a big guy charge at you, swinging a hammer. This shit can get really really confusing. So different things going on, can have one and the same outcome (for instance your seizures) while one and the same thing going on can have totally different outcomes (something that makes my wife shut down and blank out will make me ice cold, slow down time and speed me up; something that makes another person melt inside may give me a belly laugh). So what I'm trying to say is: your therapist was guessing at panic attack, because a panic attack can present like this. And something else can, also. But, just hypothetically, it could also be something like ... you once hurt someone terribly, the situation triggers that traumatic experience, you don't want to hurt another person the same way, no, no NO and your body ends up locking up the same way. These are physiologic reactions to trauma or extreme stress. Most rabbits will take off when you scare them. Some rabbits will sit there, paralyzed, shaking. This works for humans too. The trick is coming at this sideways, and getting your mind to reinterpret certain stimuli, or teaching your body to react differently. What they're trying with you is a form of desensitization therapy with a twist. But that doesn't always work. Physical desensitization never got rid of my cat allergy ... which is a weak example, but. Sometimes time is the cure. After a very traumatic breakup I went through about 8 years where, if a woman came on to me, I'd go paralyzed in my arms, limp, standing up, could not hug while at the same time I was perfectly able to hug people of both gender who were not coming on to me. Friends, acquaintances, perfect strangers. I'd been hurt badly, and my mind/body system kind of decided that I should not be hurt the same way again. Eventually that just went away and I learned to trust again. Just time did it for me. I simply didn't do anything stupid because I knew: this, too, shall pass, and there will be better times ahead. Some times it's better to be the willow that bends with the wind than the oak that breaks and falls over. She refused to see my therapist, she said dont need to know anything about it you just need to get better. Indint that no she cares if I am better, only that I can keep working so she can stay home and party with her friends. Refused xanax withdrawal info , this is bit sounding good is it. She has seen dozens of seizures sometimes have several a night |
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Post by petrushka on Jun 12, 2017 9:45:21 GMT -5
The other side of the "I'm fine" coin. &^%$#(
I'm fine. I am sitting [whereever] reading a book / working on a problem in my head / concentrating.
I tend to frown when I concentrate. It just happens. Just like the angles of my mouth move out and up
when I am amused. I sit and frown.
Wife goes "why are you angry"
"I am not angry, I'm fine {brief smile}"
"yes you are angry, I can see it"
Will you believe that this is the prelude to the most rampant arguments we had?
I start explaining to her that when I am angry, I stop talking, I get white around the nose,
I do not frown, I walk away because I don't want to explode on someone"
"But you look angry".
So at this point - she's calling me a liar, and she's disrespecting my explanation .....
.... and if you really want to get me angry, all you need to do is call me a liar. It's my
soft spot.
'nuff said. So stupid.
You tell me you're fine, I'll take that as The Truth. Arguing about it is extremely disrespectful.
So if you're not fine, don't tell me you are, at your own peril. I will not pursue the matter.
Another aspect of 'don't say shit you don't mean'.
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Post by petrushka on Jun 12, 2017 10:06:01 GMT -5
Well brother rdp62 - I guess she's made it pretty clear that she's not interested in helping you, not really interested in you as a person alltogether?!? If she cared, she'd want to learn and to help. I can't help being sarcastic at times, but my thought was: you might be better off spending your money on prostitutes, you'd get more support, care and help there, and some nookie as well. Pull the money plug on this 'wife' and see what happens. Really, I am that disgusted by her attitude. |
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 12, 2017 10:28:23 GMT -5
Well brother rdp62 - I guess she's made it pretty clear that she's not interested in helping you, not really interested in you as a person alltogether?!? If she cared, she'd want to learn and to help. I can't help being sarcastic at times, but my thought was: you might be better off spending your money on prostitutes, you'd get more support, care and help there, and some nookie as well. Pull the money plug on this 'wife' and see what happens. Really, I am that disgusted by her attitude. Thanks I switched direct deposit to my personal account last week. she is going to flip when she finds out |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 12, 2017 11:34:08 GMT -5
I usually agree with Baz, but this time I have a different viewpoint. He suggested silence would have been a better response by Tiffany when on their anniversary, he asked what was wrong and she lied and said, "I'm fine." Silence under such situations is stonewalling, one of the 4 predictors of divorce. It seems to be a hallmark of tiffany's behavior in their marriage. Her husband comments about other women's figures and Tiffany bites her tongue. She self published a book and doesn't tell him but feels resentful that he doesn't support her achievements. Speaking up by saying something like, "I'm hurt that we aren't celebrating our anniversary" could have opened the door to their figuring out a solution. I know that lots of time her husband comes across as a dick in her posts even though she is the refuser. I think it's important for folks here, who mostly are the refused, to not only realize that her perspective may be similar to that of your refuser but also sometimes the refused are in the wrong. It takes 2 to create or maintain a dysfunctional union. Sometimes the refused' contribution was overlooking red flags and marrying an incompatible partner. Sometimes the refused may have closed their ears to their partner's concerns. In tiffany's situation, when I try to consider her partner's perspective one major thing stands out: he is the sole wage earner after agreeing to her quitting her job, which she did not like. He also agreed to her not seeking other employment due to her not liking options in her town. Thus, he has the strain of more financial responsibility while she gets more time with her writing hobby. She has said he starts his day at 5:30 and he gets up and immediately starts complaining, waking her up. She has said he complains about the untidy house. Her excuse is that she is not good at that sort of thing. Since their kids are teens, the house isn't messy because she is taking care of babies and toddlers. Now she is feeling resentful because he hadn't made plans for their anniversary celebration on a day that he works. If we try to look at the marriage through his eyes, he may be feeling resentful and unappreciated since he is carrying more of the economic load when she gets to live a relatively carefree life. He may be feeling resentful also that despite his job, he is working out and keeping a very fit body while it may seem to him that she is just spending her time resting. He also may feel that since she doesn't work, she should take responsibility for things like their anniversary celebrations. It does go two ways. She could do something special for him on such a day. Just think about how many of the refused here have complained that they didn't get any kind of sex on their anniversary. If she's still menstruating, she could have awakened him with a bj. As is typical with SMS, problems go deeper than lack of enough sex. Yes, there are things I know I could work on and am currently doing that. As for the work thing, it was HIS suggestion I not seek other employment not mine. I don't mind working, it's the people here I don't like working with. It's a small town and most of the people here think they just have to show up and get their paycheck. No one wants to EARN it. Any job I've had I EARN my damn check and with all but two jobs I've had in this town, I'm usually doing my work PLUS that of my co-workers with little to show for my hard work. That's why I wasn't upset when H said for me not to go back to work |
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 12, 2017 12:39:50 GMT -5
In my defense saying anything other than I am fine, the response is disinterest or just deal with it. After a while not much point to say anything else and she doesn't ask often so not that much of a problem, at least for her. Now it will be.
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