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Post by WindSister on Jun 1, 2017 14:16:31 GMT -5
I've heard the "if your partner digs you, you will try hard to maintain yourself" thesis many times, but it doesn't seem to mesh well with my own lived reality and what I've observed. In my twenties, I was all over my gf, who I loved, while she gained weight, and I stuck with her while it happened. It didn't reverse her weight gain. In my latter twenties and early thirties, when I was not yet aware of the scale of dysfunction in my relationship, I gained weight. When things went celibate and my wife had an affair, and when my buddy's wife also had an affair, we both went full out into fitness and got ourselves back into shape. Among the women I've known who transitioned from marriage to divorce, most of them have gone through a period in which they updated their fitness, fashion, hair, and lifestyle, transforming themselves even though they didn't have a partner, to the point that formerly mousy non-descript women have suddenly popped up on my radar, like "DAAMN!" From what I've seen, I'd deduce that blaming others (like an inattentive partner) for one's OWN appearance and health choices is a prime indicator that one does not take responsibilities for one's own choices. By making your weight your partner's responsibility, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The biggest impetus for change based on what I've observed and experienced, is the prospect that you might have to attract someone new, or the terror that you'll have to be naked in front of someone new that you have attracted. The Divorce Diet. I don't put the responsibility solely on my partner. And I didn't blame my ex, solely, for the weight gain during the great depression years, either. I am saying, he didn't contribute to a healthy lifestyle himself and living with him was damn fucking hard to maintain one when I was trying to both live healthy and stay married to him. I am just saying it's easier for me being with a partner who gives a damn and wants my body -- that motivates ME, anyway (big time). That's my experience. Sex/intimacy/my husband motivate me to have a healthy body more than just doing it "for the health of it." Call it wrong, right, I don't care - it's how I know I am wired. Knowing someone will be touching me, spooning me, initiating sex with me motivates me on a daily basis. But, then, I did great in the Army life -- I ran faster, did more push-ups and had killer muscles when someone motivated me to do it than I ever did on my own. I need external motivation. With my ex I had NONE. With my husband now, I have it, so it works. I still do the work. I still watch what I eat and exercise. I don't blame him if I gain a pound. (not at all) I AM personally responsible as is he. It's easier now, that's all, and there is absolutely no denying that. Some need the gratification of being self-driven and that's beautiful. I am not self-driven and I know it. Know thyself and the rest of life falls into place. I take personal responsibility to ensure I have external factors motivating me... there. That has to work. All that said --- it's not all about looks. And it's great when that is really true between two people as I am experiencing now with my husband (that kind of relationship DOES exist). I am quite certain my skin will get saggy, boobs deflated, brown spots multiplied and my husband will still want me sexually in whatever way we can physically perform together. That's a good damn feeling. Edited to add: To go from a man who actually assigns worthiness of women by an actual freaking number (apparently everyone thinks that's cool???) to a man who treats me like the most beautiful woman in the world as I am (not a head-turner, quite average and unnoticed by most men) both at home and out in the world in front of other more beautiful women feels amazing. Don't settle for someone who doesn't want you. |
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Jun 1, 2017 21:19:51 GMT -5
I have to add that since I have started exercising WITH my H, he has commented on it.
Our frequency has increased a lot (still not what I need but good start) and we were talking about it the other night. He told me it has been a really huge turn on for him to see me exercise and working so hard. He also has commented on some of the little changes my new work has been doing and how much more he has been aroused by the sight of me. Extremely reassuring but also a total shock to hear coming from the refuser of all things sexual.
So it may not just be appearance, maybe it is that we are doing it together or seeing me in a new way, but I honestly don't care. He thinks I am sexier and has been wanting to have sex so that was a huge win! I started doing it for me but now I am even more motivated because it may result in my increased libido having a little bit of an outlet... Maybe.
Anyway, I don't think it is all appearance, but change has been good for me (and us)
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Post by WindSister on Jun 2, 2017 7:10:51 GMT -5
mrslowmaintenance - I am so happy for you that your husband is responding positively and in a re-affirming way! You have an active, willing spouse willing to take on new things and new things add spice to our lives, for sure. I think stagnation is one of the killers of relationships, too, along with neglect. So you guys are taking on something new together, it stands to reason it adds a little excitement. Of course, he's willing with you - that's key. Many of us had or have a partner not willing to go along with us. I hope it continues to work out for you! Oh... and yes, it does stand to reason some of it has to do with looks -- I did state that in my original post that letting ourselves go is not a turn on for our spouses. (and vice versa, no doubt!!) Do I want to see my husband at 300 pounds? No... not really. I would hope he cares about himself (AND US) enough not to go there. (He does)
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Post by h on Jun 2, 2017 7:21:19 GMT -5
I think that it can become a self fulfilling prophecy in some cases. That's what happened for me. Lack of sex led to depression which led to "why bother maintaining my health at all?" At my worst, I figured that a long and healthy but nearly celibate life was going to be a punishment so I quit taking care of myself entirely hoping to take a few years off my life sentence. I'm still digging myself out of that hole both physically and emotionally.
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Post by WindSister on Jun 2, 2017 7:28:44 GMT -5
I think that it can become a self fulfilling prophecy in some cases. That's what happened for me. Lack of sex led to depression which led to "why bother maintaining my health at all?" At my worst, I figured that a long and healthy but nearly celibate life was going to be a punishment so I quit taking care of myself entirely hoping to take a few years off my life sentence. I'm still digging myself out of that hole both physically and emotionally. Yup. It's hell. Keep digging, life and you are worth it!! |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 2, 2017 7:49:10 GMT -5
I can only imagine what goes through a refusers mind. We often like to say that a refuser/controller is happy for that year of no sex after the reset. But are they? Especially if they are a taker, a goal post mover, once you start resisting, learning of their manipulation they have to start looking for ways to strengthen their control, or find another victim. That upsets their dominants.
In my case my spouse could care less about her looks, clothing, make up, exercise, weight gain, fun activities, hardly anything involving "us" as a couple only. She is one of those, "all about the children", moms.
Personnaly, I believe in going to the gym, not sitting around the house so much, and being outdoors. I want my sons to see that. They may not follow me right now, but in the future they can look back and I will set an example for them.
I am beginning to think the same for my STBX. To show my teens that you don't have to "settle" and remain for someone who lets themselves go, by doing little for themselves, physically, and always manipulating others to do household work for her.
Now just because I see a really fit woman who goes to the gym everyday, doesn't mean she is going to have a strong desire for sex and intimacy with a man or anyone. Or that they will want to be a team player when it comes time to making decisions and fulfilling their responsibilities.
However, my mind is tainted with an image of the person who doesn't take care of themselves as being lazy in a relationship too. Marriage and a relationship is hard work.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 2, 2017 10:59:09 GMT -5
I am often fascinated by the difference between social narrative and reality - folklore that denies lived experience.
I'm often intrigued by the peculiar amount of hyperbole that weaves throughout this thread and discussions around this subject, subtly shifting to focus and argument against against a point that literally nobody actually makes. Here's a quick scan so far:
-Anyway -- the point is, it's not all about "looks." Not at all.
-"I don't think it is all appearance", or
-"All that said --- it's not all about looks"
-There is NO correlation between looks and sexual performance. (though in context, this one, I think, was more about sexual performance within the context of the same marriage, before/after improving looks)
-Looks are (admittedly, only to a certain extent) superficial and shouldn't be the primary reason for denying
-LOOKS simply do not tell a whole story.
-I know for a fact that it has nothing to do with how you look. (same as the above, in context - likely more about returning to a sexual relationship in marriage.)
There's only 2 and a bit pages of comments here, but there is this apparent urgency to proclaim that looks have nothing at all to do with sexual desirability, and I think that's an astounding claim.
I've seen analyses of OKCupid's data and wider psych and evolutionary psychology studies indicating something to the effect of the top 10% of rated attractiveness among men get upwards of 80% of the unsolicited introductions from the opposite sex, and around the same amount of actual sex, compared to average men. The top rated attractive women on such sites, and even women of average attractiveness tend to get more introductions than they can feasibly respond to - to the point that they change their profiles to solely filter out the less desirables, without even writing anything about themselves.
I've traded stories with a single female friend, in which we both discussed exploring sexually with different kinds of bodies (partners who were objectively and significantly obese, but who otherwise had something sexy that interested us and who were intriguing as people). We both had the same comment (she offered hers first), which was that it was physically challenging to fuck a person who is significantly overweight, limiting in positions and angles, and awkwardly obvious as to the reason why that was so. In the hypergamic and fast moving waters of adult online dating (at least in a metropolitan city, which brings its own benefits and problems), that alone introduces a complication that the next 30 candidates in one's orbit doesn't have.
I totally agree that it isn't ALL about looks. Is anyone making that argument though, that it IS?
I gather that the idea is to be reassuring there - but I think it's actually much more challenging.
It's more accurate (in most cases) to say that it IS about looks PLUS a whole lot of other factors that need to be satisfied at least to a minimum level, IMO.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 2, 2017 11:52:22 GMT -5
Apocrypha, I suspect it may be both at the same time - even those who are tolerant are also superficially judgmental. As you point out, when given a choice of 30 candidates, you start weeding somehow, and the only criteria available in many cases is visual. Only after one takes the time to engage with another person can they start to dig deeper. Even someone who focuses on inner qualities cannot possibly take the time to evaluate everyone that way; those prejudicial filters exist even when we refuse to acknowledge them. I've had this same discussion with my kids in their teens many times... you may be brilliant and a hard worker, but if you show up looking like a vagrant you won't even get an interview. Or, your degree may not be relevant, but if everyone else has a degree you'd better at least meet that bar to make it past the filter. People have zero obligation to scratch through our veneer to see the "true person" inside - the burden is on us to give them a reason to make that effort. In the world of relationships, your odds improve if you are more attractive - that's not the PC thing to say, but it's reality and denying it doesn't change it. If that's not you, it doesn't mean you're doomed, it just means the game needs to be played differently. E.g., nothing I sell will ever be the cheapest option, yet we sell millions a year; we find ways to appeal beyond the superficial (i.e., looks). But that approach means we need to work for it - we can't just slap up a listing on Amazon (i.e., Tinder, etc.) and wait for the orders to pour in.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 2, 2017 12:30:40 GMT -5
I'm much the same way, greatcoastal about staying active. My STBX has put on probably 60-70 pounds since we started dating, but I still found her desirable and attractive, even as she was shooting me down, doing the opposite of taking care of herself, and complaining about me "judging her" when I was trying to help her take better care of herself. I posted all about this in one of my much earlier posts, but it was a series of patterns that began to emerge that slowly and surely drove me away. It started with her complaining about gaining weight (she had to buy a second dress a couple of months before our wedding, because she was unable to fit into her original one), but didn't respond well to my gentle efforts to help arrest and reverse what was happening. It started with her pledging to eat healthier, then instead of eating the breakfasts and lunches I was prepping and packing for her, picking up fast food for those meals. Or, instead of eating the dinners I was cooking, she was picking up takeout pizza, Chinese, or other foods - those infamous containers that built up in the bedroom. She complained about how she used to run, and kept signing up for half-marathons, but when I'd invite her for walks or runs with the dogs or through the neighborhood, she'd decline because she didn't feel well, was too tired, or felt like I was pressuring her to do things. We even worked out as a couple with a trainer - she spent most of the time criticizing me for "trying too hard" or "showing off" before, during, or after the sessions. It was finally realizing that this was just who she was, and it's very much not who I am, that was the final nail on the coffin. Especially when I realized that these weren't traits that I ever wanted to be present in a partner, or in the future mother of my children. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 2, 2017 13:02:02 GMT -5
After rereading what cagedtiger and myself stated about our STBX's, it makes me want to be blunt. I'm a skinny ,trim , fit guy. (I weigh 2 to 5lbs more than I did in college) What's wrong with me looking for the same in a woman? What's wrong with me expecting trim, fit woman to see me the same way? At this stage , looks do matter, all over again. Along with the intelligence that character and morals are just as important. Being in a SM with a woman much heavier than myself has done years of damage to my self esteem and thinking process about how other woman are going to desire me. Another learning process, like High School all over again. |
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Post by WindSister on Jun 2, 2017 13:20:34 GMT -5
The point has been lost. No need to defend preferences. 😊
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 2, 2017 13:31:00 GMT -5
The point has been lost. No need to defend preferences. 😊 Not exactly sure who that's meant for? For me, preference is a very "touchy, confusing?" (for lack of a better word) subject. Not something you bring up easily in small circles of surface conversation. I am thankful to have this place to air things out, and get a response. If the point has been lost, sorry about that. |
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Post by WindSister on Jun 2, 2017 13:43:11 GMT -5
The point has been lost. No need to defend preferences. 😊 Not exactly sure who that's meant for? For me, preference is a very "touchy, confusing?" (for lack of a better word) subject. Not something you bring up easily in small circles of surface conversation. I am thankful to have this place to air things out, and get a response. If the point has been lost, sorry about that. I didn't mean anything bad. No need for sorry. It just did go in a whole other direction and that's cool. Nothing wrong with it. And not because of you. We all waivered all over. Everyone has preferences and attraction is a real thing. There's a few different themes in this thread. in terms of getting back out there again: Know yourself. Be yourself. There is a market for every face, shape and size. Dont fret the ones who don't want you. Reject with kindness. Peace out- have a great weekend, I'm off to go camping!! 😎 |
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Post by WindSister on Jun 2, 2017 13:47:58 GMT -5
Oh. And obviously the conversation can and should carry on in whatever direction it flows. Hope it helps someone/everyone. I shouldn't have insinuated it shouldn't keep going because it strayed a bit. I apologize.
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Post by WindSister on Jun 2, 2017 14:45:59 GMT -5
Since we strayed, I'll keep straying. Then I'm really leaving till Monday. Take care crew. I'll leave this here. No hidden agenda or message as to why I am. I just think it's beautiful.    |
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