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Post by greatcoastal on May 24, 2017 18:39:24 GMT -5
I tought about this today when I was in the McDonalds drive through. I paid the guy, he gave me my card back, I said "Thank you" and his response was "My pleasure!" My pleasure?! Really?! It was this guy's idea of pleasure to take my payment and hand my card back to me? If he is telling the truth I don't know if I should feel happy or sad for him. Happy that he can derive pleasure in such simple things, or sad that his life is so bereft of happiness and joy that he is reduced to receiving pleasure from taking payments from people in the drive through at McDonalds. Or maybe he wasn't entirely honest with me and he told me a little white lie. One designed to make me feel good about my transaction so I will come back again. Hmmm... Kinda doubt he took much pleasure in giving you your coffee, but maybe he did 😉 Still just was asserting my opinion that it may be a good idea to avoid potential love interests with a tendency to lie. But, that's only my humble opinion. Society as a whole needs "softening of truths" in general in order to function. Can you imagine if everyone told the absolute truth day in and day out? This isnt hypocritical to the op - it's a completely different thing. But it is an interesting subject to ponder for sure. It is an interesting subject. Yesterday at "Divorce Recovery" we had a guest speaker. He's a psychologist , he spoke about forgiveness. He started with Why people choose not to forgive. One reason was self-protection. That got me thinking about "trust". Over and over again, the word "trust" or the lack of it kept coming to mind. Just a summary. How much trust goes into a marriage, then, how much lack of trust develops over a SM. The narc, manipulative control, etc.... ends up being a whole lot of lying, leading to a decay of the trust that once existed. Looking forward to giving, and receiving trust again. |
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Post by WindSister on May 25, 2017 10:19:40 GMT -5
I tried to be honest with friends about my distaste for showers (in this case an upcoming bridal shower) and was shamed to death. "WHAT?? Showers are a celebration of the happiest of times in life...."
Silence from me.... Then I just agreed.
Actually, showers and weddings take away precious weekends, but hey - maybe I am just not as sweet and social as my friends.
I will show up with a smile and gush over the bride and groom and pretend to have a great time. Liar. lol
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Post by wewbwb on May 26, 2017 8:04:02 GMT -5
I tried to be honest with friends about my distaste for showers (in this case an upcoming bridal shower) and was shamed to death. "WHAT?? Showers are a celebration of the happiest of times in life...." Silence from me.... Then I just agreed. Actually, showers and weddings take away precious weekends, but hey - maybe I am just not as sweet and social as my friends. I will show up with a smile and gush over the bride and groom and pretend to have a great time. Liar. lol Simple solution. Take baths instead. There I'm your "life coach".  I can relate in the sense that I don't like most people and dread the "small talk" However, once I'm actually in the situation I can usually find someone to pass the time with. But in the back of my mind I'm thinking "I could be watching Dr. Who instead." |
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Post by Isabellas39 on May 26, 2017 8:12:45 GMT -5
Interesting topic and well timed ! I have a very hard time trusting, so I hate it when people lie to me. In my opinion if someone can lie about small, insignificant things then how can I trust their word on anything significant? I am not saying that we will all be completely honest all of the time, but I really believe it's all about context. A white lie to protect someone's feelings is fine to some extent. If I don't look good in an outfit, I would prefer to be told. If someone is interested in dating many then don't tell me you're looking for one special woman. This is the shit that can drive me to crazy town.
I think this is why I have such a damn hard time in general !
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Post by bballgirl on May 26, 2017 9:16:12 GMT -5
Interesting topic and well timed ! I have a very hard time trusting, so I hate it when people lie to me. In my opinion if someone can lie about small, insignificant things then how can I trust their word on anything significant? I am not saying that we will all be completely honest all of the time, but I really believe it's all about context. A white lie to protect someone's feelings is fine to some extent. If I don't look good in an outfit, I would prefer to be told. If someone is interested in dating many then don't tell me you're looking for one special woman. This is the shit that can drive me to crazy town. I think this is why I have such a damn hard time in general ! Yeah with dating people tell you they want a relationship but they don't mean it. A lot of liars are out there. It seems most men in their 40's or early 50's are just looking for fun, they are divorced and trying to recoup their loses financially and I understand that but don't say you want a relationship if you just want to get laid every now and then. Honesty is tough to find in the dating world. |
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Post by wewbwb on May 26, 2017 10:03:45 GMT -5
Interesting topic and well timed ! I have a very hard time trusting, so I hate it when people lie to me. In my opinion if someone can lie about small, insignificant things then how can I trust their word on anything significant? I am not saying that we will all be completely honest all of the time, but I really believe it's all about context. A white lie to protect someone's feelings is fine to some extent. If I don't look good in an outfit, I would prefer to be told. If someone is interested in dating many then don't tell me you're looking for one special woman. This is the shit that can drive me to crazy town. I think this is why I have such a damn hard time in general ! Yeah with dating people tell you they want a relationship but they don't mean it. A lot of liars are out there. It seems most men in their 40's or early 50's are just looking for fun, they are divorced and trying to recoup their loses financially and I understand that but don't say you want a relationship if you just want to get laid every now and then. Honesty is tough to find in the dating world. So this is the difference that I am talking about. A lie about who I am - well not good. A lie about how I feel to my partner - not good. A lie about how I had to fight a gang of roving librarians on the way to your house and that's why I'm late - I'm okay with that. A lie about how "Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting" - I'm okay with that. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 26, 2017 11:32:50 GMT -5
Trust.
I had a trust issue at my Divorce Recovery class about a year ago. They start off with a good format, "everyone gets to have a say, no one will be judged, feel free to ask questions, state your case, feelings, concerns. If you have a different opinion, save it for the right time, remember we are here to help one another.".Sounds good, right?
I stated one of my legal concerns about my STBX taking the kids more than 50 miles from the house, overnight, along with some other things. I quoted what the law says, and what my attorney informed me. One of the lady volunteers at the group, interrupted me to say, " I hate to burst your bubble, but that is not true at all". Then went on to say what she thought about it. I tried to challenge her on it with the facts. She would not let me speak, or answer a question. I finally started looking at the other people in the room and said to her, "you're not going to let me speak are you? You're not going to answer anything are you?"
I then gathered my things, stood up and left the building, saying, " I will take the advice of our speaker we just listened too, I will put action to my words, and no longer be a victim here".
I made a phone call the next day, and spoke with the person in charge. They apologized, confirmed my actions, and that person is no longer there, and is not allowed to volunteer there anymore. I am back and things are better. People are given the right to be heard now.Time limits are enforced, some are politely asked to remain quiet.
There's more trust going on in our group now. My trust level was quickly stripped away when the same people dominated the conversations, and belittled others. You don't feel like opening up, being the least bit vulnerable around someone like that! Trusting someone is also a way of seeking encouragement. That woman gave me zero encouragement. Instead I felt instant defense and resentment. A huge lack of trust and respect.
Honestly...I later thought of that lady, "no wonder you're divorced, you sound like a manipulative controller, your ex probably had no voice"
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Post by baza on May 26, 2017 20:05:09 GMT -5
I have a very good friend I'll call "Fred".
One day a few months ago, we went for a ride up the valley, and encountered a mob of roo's on the road, and there was a bit of an incident, requiring some pretty hard braking and avoidant maneuvering.
The next day, I was talking to another mate, (Rusty) and he asked how our ride up the valley had gone.
I said "Pretty good. Lunch at the Eldorado pub was good but the ride got a bit lively due to roo's near Simmins Plains"
Apparently, a day after that, Fred was talking to (Rusty) and recounted a tale of screaming tyres, high speed swerving, near misses, sideways sliding, and altogether a situation of high drama and adventure.
Now the truth of the matter was somewhere between the two viewpoints.
Fred has a tendency to "over-cook" things, and I have a tendency to under state things.
And the difference between the two views of the same incident might give cause for Rusty to wonder if I and Fred were actually talking about the same event.
And, by definition, I guess both Fred, and I, were lying in our own way.
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Post by seabr33z3 on May 26, 2017 20:50:41 GMT -5
I have a very good friend I'll call "Fred". One day a few months ago, we went for a ride up the valley, and encountered a mob of roo's on the road, and there was a bit of an incident, requiring some pretty hard braking and avoidant maneuvering. The next day, I was talking to another mate, (Rusty) and he asked how our ride up the valley had gone. I said "Pretty good. Lunch at the Eldorado pub was good but the ride got a bit lively due to roo's near Simmins Plains" Apparently, a day after that, Fred was talking to (Rusty) and recounted a tale of screaming tyres, high speed swerving, near misses, sideways sliding,  and altogether a situation of high drama and adventure. Now the truth of the matter was somewhere between the two viewpoints. Fred has a tendency to "over-cook" things, and I have a tendency to under state things. And the difference between the two views of the same incident might give cause for Rusty to wonder if I and Fred were actually talking about the same event. And, by definition, I guess both Fred, and I, were lying in our own way. I was at a funeral recently of an old friend. A man in his 80's. I have to say it was the funniest funeral I've ever been at. He was well know for his tall tales. A great story made better by wild exaggeration. Even the minister who took the service was amused for many years by his stories. One of his favourites was to tell of how when the Luftwaffe were bombing his city during WW2 he waved up at the German fighter pilot who waved back down at him.🙄 He was always a great one to invite to dinner parties.Kept everyone amused. |
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Post by baza on May 26, 2017 20:59:06 GMT -5
Similar to one of my Uncles stories back in the day.
He was saying how as an airforce pilot he shot down 3 Japanese aircraft over Tokyo and got into heaps of trouble about it.
Someone said "I thought you'd be hailed as an "ace" for such an act, how come you got into trouble about it ?"
"It was in 1967" - he replied.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 26, 2017 21:27:58 GMT -5
I have a very good friend I'll call "Fred". One day a few months ago, we went for a ride up the valley, and encountered a mob of roo's on the road, and there was a bit of an incident, requiring some pretty hard braking and avoidant maneuvering. The next day, I was talking to another mate, (Rusty) and he asked how our ride up the valley had gone. I said "Pretty good. Lunch at the Eldorado pub was good but the ride got a bit lively due to roo's near Simmins Plains" Apparently, a day after that, Fred was talking to (Rusty) and recounted a tale of screaming tyres, high speed swerving, near misses, sideways sliding, and altogether a situation of high drama and adventure. Now the truth of the matter was somewhere between the two viewpoints. Fred has a tendency to "over-cook" things, and I have a tendency to under state things. And the difference between the two views of the same incident might give cause for Rusty to wonder if I and Fred were actually talking about the same event. And, by definition, I guess both Fred, and I, were lying in our own way. Your example sounds like a "Is the cup half full, or is the cup half empty?" situation. Neither one is right or wrong. www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html I found this to be an interesting article about both sides of a marriage. www.alternet.org/sex-amp-relationships/report-women-happier-after-divorce-men |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 27, 2017 7:17:45 GMT -5
Is lying something to overlook?
More about the lying and trust. Food,snacks,eating out,groceries, has been a big issue, and remains a big issue in our marriage and house.
My spouse declared years ago that eating out was too expensive. That snacks for the kids is a "luxury". That we need a healthier diet. That all food will be eaten in the kitchen and remain in the kitchen.
So where's the lie in that? Well... shortly after these boundaries and rules are dictated by one spouse, that same spouse begins to break all those rules along with her live in Daddy.
The family notices and starts asking, "how come she and he gets away with it?" So they start doing it too.
Even myself. I started keeping my own private stash of Fudge Rounds and Recesses Cups! Was my "lie" justified? My one or two sons would down a whole box in a day, that would last me a week. My spouse was putting thousands of dollars away while I felt guilty about buying $10.00 of snacks?
Sin is a sin. Weather it's $10.00 or $10,000.00.
Did I feel vindicated on spending my $10.00 on snacks when I would see my spouse come home with McDonald latte' cups in her hand every day?.... YES!!
Did all that continue to erode the trust, and make me suspicious of the lies? .....totally.
Just more pieces of the puzzle added on to the big puzzle piece of decades of SM lies,and manipulation.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 28, 2017 6:46:10 GMT -5
Interesting topic and well timed ! I have a very hard time trusting, so I hate it when people lie to me. In my opinion if someone can lie about small, insignificant things then how can I trust their word on anything significant? I am not saying that we will all be completely honest all of the time, but I really believe it's all about context. A white lie to protect someone's feelings is fine to some extent. If I don't look good in an outfit, I would prefer to be told. If someone is interested in dating many then don't tell me you're looking for one special woman. This is the shit that can drive me to crazy town. I think this is why I have such a damn hard time in general ! Yeah with dating people tell you they want a relationship but they don't mean it. A lot of liars are out there. It seems most men in their 40's or early 50's are just looking for fun, they are divorced and trying to recoup their loses financially and I understand that but don't say you want a relationship if you just want to get laid every now and then. Honesty is tough to find in the dating world. You know, I am still quiet nervous about this subject, dating, and looking for that one special person. To quote Isabellas 39 "If someone is interested in dating many than don't tell me you're looking for one special woman" Doesn't that go back to the old saying?, "you've got to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince." Aren't you going to run into both? The person who's living a lie, and will never settle for one special woman or man. Then there's the person who is actively seeking that special person , but has to go through the "trial, and error" dating process. Beware of the third, the narc. who's looking for another victim. My nervousness/fears are, that I will continue to be a strong giver, and will find a taker. Someone who acts all gracious and giving in return, love bombing, then I discover I have been had by another narc. another taker. Makes it difficult to come out of the cave, but it's slowly ,cautiously happening. |
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Post by hopingforachange on May 28, 2017 7:16:44 GMT -5
Yeah with dating people tell you they want a relationship but they don't mean it. A lot of liars are out there. It seems most men in their 40's or early 50's are just looking for fun, they are divorced and trying to recoup their loses financially and I understand that but don't say you want a relationship if you just want to get laid every now and then. Honesty is tough to find in the dating world. You know, I am still quiet nervous about this subject, dating, and looking for that one special person. To quote Isabellas 39 "If someone is interested in dating many than don't tell me you're looking for one special woman" Doesn't that go back to the old saying?, "you've got to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince." Aren't you going to run into both? The person who's living a lie, and will never settle for one special woman or man. Then there's the person who is actively seeking that special person , but has to go through the "trial, and error" dating process. Beware of the third, the narc. who's looking for another victim. My nervousness/fears are, that I will continue to be a strong giver, and will find a taker. Someone who acts all gracious and giving in return, love bombing, then I discover I have been had by another narc. another taker. Makes it difficult to come out of the cave, but it's slowly ,cautiously happening. I totally understand, it is hard to open up after forcing your self in a closed off fortress from the SM shit. I wonder if I get out, if i will look for a person that has been thru a SM as well. The common background I think would be helpful in understanding where some of my actions come from. Unless you have lived this life, I don't think a normal person would understand. Living in a near SM has made me much more sympathetic to a cheater/ outsourcer then I was a decade ago |
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Post by bballgirl on May 28, 2017 7:27:36 GMT -5
Yeah with dating people tell you they want a relationship but they don't mean it. A lot of liars are out there. It seems most men in their 40's or early 50's are just looking for fun, they are divorced and trying to recoup their loses financially and I understand that but don't say you want a relationship if you just want to get laid every now and then. Honesty is tough to find in the dating world. You know, I am still quiet nervous about this subject, dating, and looking for that one special person. To quote Isabellas 39 "If someone is interested in dating many than don't tell me you're looking for one special woman" Â Doesn't that go back to the old saying?, "you've got to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince." Aren't you going to run into both? The person who's living a lie, and will never settle for one special woman or man. Then there's the person who is actively seeking that special person , but has to go through the "trial, and error" dating process. Beware of the third, the narc. who's looking for another victim. My nervousness/fears are, that I will continue to be a strong giver, and will find a taker. Someone who acts all gracious and giving in return, love bombing, then I discover I have been had by another narc. another taker. Makes it difficult to come out of the cave, but it's slowly ,cautiously happening. I do believe that old saying. The other day I told a friend of mine that you can't find something unless you are actively looking. However it is discouraging at times when you want to find someone and they tell you they want a relationship and to do things with you but all they want is to get you into bed. I understand your apprehension too about women that are users and takers and there are plenty of them out there that just want a man for his money. A man I went out with a couple of times on date one told me that he doesn't want to be a father to my children, blah blah. I was a little surprised that on date 1 he's telling me this but it may have been a knee jerk reaction based on other women he met. I told him that they have a father and he's very involved in the kids lives and we work very well together raising them. So I understand your apprehension about users because they are out there. The key is to recognize them and protect yourself. I also think love languages say a lot about who someone is. A woman that wants gifts is definitely a taker. |
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