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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 9:48:17 GMT -5
But the point is that the desire to help does not really exist in my ex-wife. That doesn't make her a bad person. It just means she isn't one to help. But I am a different person. I am a good man. I see people in trouble. I want to help. Well, now? I have the ability to help and nobody can stop me. That is really interesting. My refuser was the same way. It never occurred to her to be the one to help. And it would irritate her when I did. For example, when we lived in El Paso, at one time, we each had our own vehicles, & had a third vehicle which was a Ford Pickup. Having an extra vehicle is really nice because if one of the other cars needed some work, it was no big deal. Once, a couple from church was moving, and they were putting some things in storage as they moved stuff from one house to the other. I told them they could use my truck for as long as they needed it. They were extremely grateful. They got it on a Wednesday & were using it. My W was very good friends with the W & knew they were borrowing it. On Saturday morning, she decided that she wanted to hit a few garage sales & wanted to use the truck. She did not have anything in mind which would neccesitate needing the truck, but she just wanted it just in case. I tried to tell her that we had agreed to let the couple use the truck and that Saturday was probably the day that they would do a lot of moving, but she did not care. Then I told her that I would be happy to take the seats out of her minivan so if she did find something big, she could put it in there. But that did not dissuade her either. She demanded that I call them right then & ask for the truck back. I refused, so she just got on the phone and told them to bring it back. They brought it back, and were obviously distressed. I told them that as soon as she was back from garage sales, I would take the truck to them. I know this is worse than your ExW, but what you said really reminded me of that. I have not thought about that in over 10 years. |
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Post by shamwow on Sept 5, 2017 12:18:44 GMT -5
But the point is that the desire to help does not really exist in my ex-wife. That doesn't make her a bad person. It just means she isn't one to help. But I am a different person. I am a good man. I see people in trouble. I want to help. Well, now? I have the ability to help and nobody can stop me. That is really interesting. My refuser was the same way. It never occurred to her to be the one to help. And it would irritate her when I did. For example, when we lived in El Paso, at one time, we each had our own vehicles, & had a third vehicle which was a Ford Pickup. Having an extra vehicle is really nice because if one of the other cars needed some work, it was no big deal. Once, a couple from church was moving, and they were putting some things in storage as they moved stuff from one house to the other. I told them they could use my truck for as long as they needed it. They were extremely grateful. They got it on a Wednesday & were using it. My W was very good friends with the W & knew they were borrowing it. On Saturday morning, she decided that she wanted to hit a few garage sales & wanted to use the truck. She did not have anything in mind which would neccesitate needing the truck, but she just wanted it just in case. I tried to tell her that we had agreed to let the couple use the truck and that Saturday was probably the day that they would do a lot of moving, but she did not care. Then I told her that I would be happy to take the seats out of her minivan so if she did find something big, she could put it in there. But that did not dissuade her either. She demanded that I call them right then & ask for the truck back. I refused, so she just got on the phone and told them to bring it back. They brought it back, and were obviously distressed. I told them that as soon as she was back from garage sales, I would take the truck to them. I know this is worse than your ExW, but what you said really reminded me of that. I have not thought about that in over 10 years. It should come as no surprise that the selfishness gene is uber-dominant in the refuser of a sexless marriage. About the only "charitable" thing she ever did during our marriage was to donate stuff to purple heart. And that is just because it was stuff she had bought and now wanted to get rid of. Purple Heart would pick it up from the doorstep. So it was convenience rather than altruism that prompted the action. I'm curious what other people's experiences have been with their ex. Is this type of behavior common? I strikes me this would be a typical behavior since it would be odd to be extremely generous with everyone in their life except their spouse. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 12:54:18 GMT -5
shamwow, the stories I read here and on reddit deadbedroom seem to indicate that selfishness is rampant among sexual refusers. I am still trying to forgive myself for not heeding the warning signs I saw in my refuser.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Sept 5, 2017 15:42:22 GMT -5
I'm so glad your house was spared and I teared up reading the core principles bit. I am so glad you are able to help the family and that your generosity is not able to be impaired by the Ex any longer.
My ex was also stingy. He said "cheap" and made jokes about being Jewish was the reason. He never "gave" things away unless he already wanted to get rid of them (like your Purple Heart example). When his kids lived with us, I was the person who would help them "talk him into" providing extras for them - - I mean, he didn't withhold what was necessary but fun things, yes, he would decline often and some of the time give in. He is very generous now with the grandkids - though, he ought to be, because watching them two days a week is how he pays his "rent" to the daughter he lives with. So again - not exactly different than a trade.
I am so glad to be away from his worried negativity.
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Post by McRoomMate on Sept 5, 2017 16:07:22 GMT -5
"If you are doing good for others, you are doing great for yourself."
- Old saying I picked up in "The Rooms"
Well I can ring my own bell a little - I hung out with the drunkie who is always hanging out in the gas station I stop at.
He was drinking beer by the can and had his little dog as usual on a leash next to him.
I told him I can help him stop drinking and get his life back if he wants.
He asked for change - I light heartedly asked if it was for "Grandma at the house" and we both had a jovial laugh.
He seemed to want to get sober.
Another 85 Year old retired Captain is meanwhile home drinking himself into oblivion. His wife is hiding and emptying his bottles and marking them with chalk. Bless her heart. Any how an Old Timer and I will be paying the old Captain a visit in a few weeks in the morning before he is drunk.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 5, 2017 16:09:14 GMT -5
T-Plus-55: Divorce Finalized
This one is for those who are staying "for the kids".
Since the divorce, I've had a revelation. My job is not to protect my children from all trauma at all costs. That type of thought has invaded our society to such a degree, we usually don't often question it. It also was the way I thought for many years. The theory is that:
- Divorce is traumatic to children.
- It will cause lasting harm.
- Therefore, it should be avoided until the kids are out of the house.
- This should be done even if you have to martyr yourself to do it.
Bullshit.
It's been almost 2 months since my divorce, and I'd like to poke some big fucking holes in that theory. Let's start with each of the assumptions.
- Divorce is traumatic to children. Yes, even an amicable divorce can be traumatic to children. But life can be traumatic too. We have a tendency to "helicopter parent" our kids, shielding them from all harm. They get "participation trophies" so nobody feels bad. It doesn't work, folks. Kids know early on that good things happen and bad things happen. Just as participation trophies prevent kids from learning sportsmanship (how to win gracefully and lose gracefully), sparing them from every bad thing doesn't give them the necessary tools to deal with the bad things that WILL happen to them in the real world.
- It will cause lasting harm. When you tell the kids you and mom are getting divorced, they are amazingly predictable. Just imagine the most self-centered questions you can, and those will be asked. They will care about moving, being able to keep their friends, their school, their pets. Even if all of these were to change? It will not cause any lasting harm. From what I can tell, kids are amazingly flexible creatures. They will adapt quickly to the "new normal" without lasting harm. That being said, if Mom and Dad are complete assholes to each other, they will learn that their parents have failings too. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
- Therefore, it should be avoided until the kids are out of the house. If you believe divorce will be traumatic and cause lasting harm, it follows that you should defer it until it "can't affect them anymore". Basically, the college plan. The problem with this is that if you have this in mind, it shows in everything you do. What is worse. A quick, but severe break to a bone that will heal once set, or a series of fractures to the same bone month after month, year after year. There are very few examples where extending pain has been helpful.
- This should be done even if you have to martyr yourself to do it. The longer you martyr yourself for your children, the more likely you will cope with your misery in increasingly poor ways. My methods of choice were primarily addiction to alcohol and porn. I'm pretty sure I hid the porn addition, although there were sometimes questions regarding why Dad is in the bathroom so long. I am pretty sure I was unable to hide my alcohol addiction. Very few of us have true martyr blood in their veins. We will cope in some way or another, and almost all of those ways are bad. Invariably, when you split, your kids will eventually say "why didn't you leave earlier?"
Now that my marriage is over, my children are not traumatized husks. They still typical 16 year old and 13 year olds. When home, they spend time in their rooms chatting with friends. They play video games. They do the same activities they always have. They get along with both Mom and I. I no longer need to "cope" with my marriage. I can be more present for them. And when they are with me, I can try to raise them to be the adults I want them to become.
This last point is key. Odds are that if you are an active parent, you disagree with your spouse on some manners of child rearing. This is especially true if you are the dad (we are usually silenced). In the nearly 2 months, since my divorce, my children have learned to do their first loads of laundry. They have learned how to do the dishes. They have learned to make their beds. They have been permitted the independence to drive to a different city alone. These are skills they will NEED when they go out into the world. They are also skills that Mrs. ShamWow REFUSED to teach. Guess what? The kids are not just open to this kind of thing, but actually seem to enjoy it.
Right now, the fact that they are both sacrificing a little bit to help a family made homeless by Hurricane Harvey makes me so amazingly proud. My 13 year old boy has stepped up to the plate, not complaining once about giving up his bedroom and sleeping on the couch to make room for the new family. He is having fun playing XBox with the two older kids and is even playing with the 2 year old. My 16 year old, not so much. It turns out she didn't need to give up her room but complains incessantly that the 2 year old is noisy. This shows me that I've got some work to do as a parent here. But the point is that if I were still married, my ex-wife never would have allowed the family to live with us in the first place, and these lessons would never have had an opportunity to be learned.
Staying together for the kids? IMHO? Overrated, and potentially actually harmful.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 10:43:57 GMT -5
T-Plus-55: Divorce Finalized This one is for those who are staying "for the kids". Since the divorce, I've had a revelation. My job is not to protect my children from all trauma at all costs. That type of thought has invaded our society to such a degree, we usually don't often question it. It also was the way I thought for many years. The theory is that: - Divorce is traumatic to children. - It will cause lasting harm. - Therefore, it should be avoided until the kids are out of the house. - This should be done even if you have to martyr yourself to do it. Bullshit. It's been almost 2 months since my divorce, and I'd like to poke some big fucking holes in that theory. Let's start with each of the assumptions. - Divorce is traumatic to children. Yes, even an amicable divorce can be traumatic to children. But life can be traumatic too. We have a tendency to "helicopter parent" our kids, shielding them from all harm. They get "participation trophies" so nobody feels bad. It doesn't work, folks. Kids know early on that good things happen and bad things happen. Just as participation trophies prevent kids from learning sportsmanship (how to win gracefully and lose gracefully), sparing them from every bad thing doesn't give them the necessary tools to deal with the bad things that WILL happen to them in the real world. - It will cause lasting harm. When you tell the kids you and mom are getting divorced, they are amazingly predictable. Just imagine the most self-centered questions you can, and those will be asked. They will care about moving, being able to keep their friends, their school, their pets. Even if all of these were to change? It will not cause any lasting harm. From what I can tell, kids are amazingly flexible creatures. They will adapt quickly to the "new normal" without lasting harm. That being said, if Mom and Dad are complete assholes to each other, they will learn that their parents have failings too. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. - Therefore, it should be avoided until the kids are out of the house. If you believe divorce will be traumatic and cause lasting harm, it follows that you should defer it until it "can't affect them anymore". Basically, the college plan. The problem with this is that if you have this in mind, it shows in everything you do. What is worse. A quick, but severe break to a bone that will heal once set, or a series of fractures to the same bone month after month, year after year. There are very few examples where extending pain has been helpful. - This should be done even if you have to martyr yourself to do it. The longer you martyr yourself for your children, the more likely you will cope with your misery in increasingly poor ways. My methods of choice were primarily addiction to alcohol and porn. I'm pretty sure I hid the porn addition, although there were sometimes questions regarding why Dad is in the bathroom so long. I am pretty sure I was unable to hide my alcohol addiction. Very few of us have true martyr blood in their veins. We will cope in some way or another, and almost all of those ways are bad. Invariably, when you split, your kids will eventually say "why didn't you leave earlier?" Now that my marriage is over, my children are not traumatized husks. They still typical 16 year old and 13 year olds. When home, they spend time in their rooms chatting with friends. They play video games. They do the same activities they always have. They get along with both Mom and I. I no longer need to "cope" with my marriage. I can be more present for them. And when they are with me, I can try to raise them to be the adults I want them to become. This last point is key. Odds are that if you are an active parent, you disagree with your spouse on some manners of child rearing. This is especially true if you are the dad (we are usually silenced). In the nearly 2 months, since my divorce, my children have learned to do their first loads of laundry. They have learned how to do the dishes. They have learned to make their beds. They have been permitted the independence to drive to a different city alone. These are skills they will NEED when they go out into the world. They are also skills that Mrs. ShamWow REFUSED to teach. Guess what? The kids are not just open to this kind of thing, but actually seem to enjoy it. Right now, the fact that they are both sacrificing a little bit to help a family made homeless by Hurricane Harvey makes me so amazingly proud. My 13 year old boy has stepped up to the plate, not complaining once about giving up his bedroom and sleeping on the couch to make room for the new family. He is having fun playing XBox with the two older kids and is even playing with the 2 year old. My 16 year old, not so much. It turns out she didn't need to give up her room but complains incessantly that the 2 year old is noisy. This shows me that I've got some work to do as a parent here. But the point is that if I were still married, my ex-wife never would have allowed the family to live with us in the first place, and these lessons would never have had an opportunity to be learned. Staying together for the kids? IMHO? Overrated, and potentially actually harmful. My friend, I am afraid you are exactly right. If I had left when I first considered it, back in 2000, I would have only been 35. Yes, it would have been hard on the kids, but they would not have seen two parents who could hardly stand to be in each other's company. I could have really enjoyed my time with them instead of walking on eggshells when my refuser was around. However, I decided that waiting was the best choice for me at the time. It seems to have worked out fairly well. At least I am free now. The divorce is still pending. |
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Post by WindSister on Sept 6, 2017 12:28:35 GMT -5
shamwow - great revelations.  Life is moving along for you and your kiddos just fine. Hope Texas can continue to recover from Harvey.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 11, 2017 8:59:52 GMT -5
T-Plus-60: Divorce Finalized Three cheers for the TSA! So I decided a little while ago that I wasn't going to give any further play by play accounts with ballofconfusion and I. Now that we have moved on from our SMs, it seems sufficient to mention that we visit each other occassionally rather than describe each visit in lurid detail (as I did the first couple). Since my divorce finalized, we have seen each other 4 times (she has flown to me twice and I have flown to see her twice). We have another flight booked in two weeks and yet another in October. I actually wasn't going to mention this past weekend's visit, but on my way back, something funny happened. We got me to the airport late yesterday - we lost track of time talking...seriously...just talking. I got there only about 30 minutes before takeoff. Normally, it isn't a big deal. I'd be rushed, but still make my flight. Well, I got to the ticket counter and they told me it was too late to check my bag. I said "that's fine" and proceeded to the TSA checkpoint to run my bag through and check it at the plane. Well, I'd forgotten that I was transporting contraband. Not guns, explosives, drugs, etc...I was transporting something much much worse. I was transporting various massage oils and lube. As I was putting my bag on the conveyor belt I realized this (oh shit moment) and pulled it from my suitcase. They were all in a clear ziplock bag. I figured they would be confiscated and just wanted to get it over with as quick as I could since at this point, I only had 20 minutes before wheels up. The bag goes through the conveyor and the TSA guys start to smile. I explain I'm in a hurry and he can just confiscate the "contraband". One of them holds it up to the light and starts looking at it. He tells me that he's not sure that I can bring these through. Duh. I just told him I'm running late and to take it and let me get to my flight. He was trying to embarrass me. Now, if I were a woman, I guarantee he wouldn't have held up by bag for all to see and discuss. Fortunately, Shammy don't embarrass easily. I told him that it was a great weekend with my girlfriend, but we still didn't use enough to lower the amounts to "government acceptable levels". If he'd like a play-by-play I'd be happy to give it to him. Now it was his turn to flush. He was still kind of a dick, leaving my bag just sitting on the table as he moved to the next person. I had to ask a supervisor to move me along. This is the first time I've ever tried to sneak contraband onto a flight (even though I really didn't). However, I'm glad this didn't happen on our first visit where I had almost a salesman's display suitcase of adult toys, lotions, handcuffs, and even a knife to cut away clothing (I even had some clothes). That stash would have been much more interesting to put on parade (are handcuffs forbidden on flights?). So I lost about $50 of oils and other "exotic fluids", but I did get a pretty decent story out of it and finally got to "stick it to the man". On another note. Things in Houston are getting back to normal. Tons of cleanup, of course, but traffic is starting to return to normal (merely horrible versus cataclysmic). The kids started back to school today. I had a good time explaining to my ex-wife that when the school's open house happens next week, I'll be sure to take them (It's my time with the kids) but she's welcome to come with and we can meet her at the school. I will extend to her the courtesy she denied me (on the first school event she rushed through it while I vainly tried to find her in the school). This courtesy isn't for her, but so that the kids can see that I'm playing nice. Kids are pretty smart about these things and don't need it explicitly explained. It's strange that it's a Monday morning and I'm feeling pretty damn good. That's been happening a lot since the divorce. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Sept 11, 2017 10:48:00 GMT -5
Very funny story - Reminds me of "Fight Club" Movie and Vibrator going off in the bag at the Luggage Claim.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 11, 2017 10:53:48 GMT -5
Very funny story - Reminds me of "Fight Club" Movie and Vibrator going off in the bag at the Luggage Claim. My previous visit, I had a Max in my suitcase (as in Max and Nora - look it up). That would have been interesting had it gone off LOL. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 11:35:58 GMT -5
LOL at your airport story!
I'm always tempted to pack a large dildo when I have to fly somewhere. Just in case the TSA decides I look like a suspicious character, and gets nosy.
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Post by hopingforachange on Sept 11, 2017 11:44:04 GMT -5
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Post by McRoomMate on Sept 11, 2017 11:44:25 GMT -5
Very funny story - Reminds me of "Fight Club" Movie and Vibrator going off in the bag at the Luggage Claim. My previous visit, I had a Max in my suitcase (as in Max and Nora - look it up). That would have been interesting had it gone off LOL. Hoooooly Sh-------t !!! Wow that is serious High Tech connecting at a distance. LMAO. |
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Post by hopingforachange on Sept 11, 2017 11:49:18 GMT -5
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Life is moving along for you and your kiddos just fine. Hope Texas can continue to recover from Harvey. 