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Post by baza on May 23, 2017 21:47:14 GMT -5
There is a post in this folder titled "The Most Comprehensive Excuses List Known to Man / Woman" posted by Brother doneanddone on April 26, 2017. There are 93 responses to it thus far featuring all manner of bullshit excuses avoidant spouses offer up for their unwillingness to engage. This is what you are up against. An entrenched belief (not without some justification) that avoidant spouses excuses lack validity / credibility and are simply delaying tactics to maintain the status quo. Now it would be foolish to believe that absolutely ALL avoidant spouses excuses are bullshit. But the anecdotal evidence suggests that usually, they are. And, when someone floats a proposition that they have found a fix, or potential fix, it is usually met with a great deal of skepticism. And that skepticism is not without basis. You rarely see in here (at least in my experience) a story along the lines - "my spouse was very concerned about their lack of sex and consulted a medico who diagnosed *X* and I am now happy to report that we are rooting each other silly, and have been for quite some time now". Maybe, after these tests in the summer you mention Brother h , you might post such a story. I certainly hope the cards fall that way for you. Time will tell. |
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Post by h on May 24, 2017 6:40:26 GMT -5
baza, The description of the Resource folder says "Resource for trying to fix a sexless marriage...or get out of one." Both options are given in the description. This thread is for the former. There are many many others for the latter. You even mentioned that other posters have brought up unwillingness to seek treatment in OTHER threads. That discussion is valuable in its context. This thread was created for the willing though, as a resource for information to fix problems. If a person finds their partner is unwilling to seek treatment, there are many many other threads to find guidance for those situations. As I mentioned earlier, this thread isn't intended for everyone or even for most. It is targeted at the very few and rare cases where a solution is desired by both parties.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on May 27, 2017 11:44:06 GMT -5
My wife's primary excuse is her depression. Whenever I bring up our sex life she says "My lack of interest is because of my depression, it's a medical condition, just like your Parkinson's!" This pisses me off for so many reasons. First, I not only have Parkinson's disease but I also have depression and anxiety. I talk about all my issues with my neurologist and my psychologist. I asked her if she discussed libido with her doctor she said her lack of interest is a side effect of her depression, not a symptom. I tried to explain to her that she doesn't know that and by excluding that information she is not giving her doctor a complete picture of her situation. I also mentioned that her refusal to discuss the topic hurts me as it shows that she isn't concerned about the state of our relationship. I got no response to that. Last, but not least, if it is her depression that's the source of the issue, that does not explain why she won't touch, cuddle, or hug me.
Anyhow, I already know the solution to this, I'm not looking for feedback, I'm just sharing.
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Post by baza on May 27, 2017 18:57:13 GMT -5
Good share.
And a great summary.
*If* a spouse really wants to do something about their issue then they seek out the appropriate specialist help, and place the full facts in front of that person.
If the spouse does not do that, then you can safely assume that they really do NOT want to do anything about their issue.
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Post by JonDoe on Jun 2, 2017 19:30:55 GMT -5
I'm convinced that this is a primary issue for my STBX, which only got worse over the years after kids and after I stopped putting her up on a pedastal after the rejection and lack of intimacy started becoming unbearable for me.
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Post by njsojourner on Jun 4, 2017 7:56:49 GMT -5
My wife's lack of sex is mostly physical--she can't have sex any more due to physical changes that cause her severe pain. Numerous doctors have concluded there isn't much that can be done now. As this condition got worse I think she also experienced some psychological affects as well. We used to be able to joke around about sex--she used to like bawdy jokes, comment on sexual situations on TV or in movies, etc. Now anything and everything sexual is off limits. An innocent remark I might make is interpreted as criticism of her. We can't even discuss our situation. I'd like to have a conversation with her and just see what she thinks about us and our future: five years ago her sex drive stopped, mine didn't. Does she really just expect me to forget about it and shut mine down? Or does she think that masturbation should be enough for me? But every time I try to raise it she gets angry and she says she doesn't want to talk about it. I know her condition is not her fault. If I hadn't heard it from the doctor I might have thought it was just her not wanting sex. So I thought about it a different way: if she had some serious disease (e.g., cancer, etc.) which prevented her from having sex would I feel the same way as I do? Honestly I do not know.
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Post by hopingforachange on Jun 4, 2017 8:58:08 GMT -5
My wife's lack of sex is mostly physical--she can't have sex any more due to physical changes that cause her severe pain. Numerous doctors have concluded there isn't much that can be done now. As this condition got worse I think she also experienced some psychological affects as well. We used to be able to joke around about sex--she used to like bawdy jokes, comment on sexual situations on TV or in movies, etc. Now anything and everything sexual is off limits. An innocent remark I might make is interpreted as criticism of her. We can't even discuss our situation. I'd like to have a conversation with her and just see what she thinks about us and our future: five years ago her sex drive stopped, mine didn't. Does she really just expect me to forget about it and shut mine down? Or does she think that masturbation should be enough for me? But every time I try to raise it she gets angry and she says she doesn't want to talk about it. I know her condition is not her fault. If I hadn't heard it from the doctor I might have thought it was just her not wanting sex. So I thought about it a different way: if she had some serious disease (e.g., cancer, etc.) which prevented her from having sex would I feel the same way as I do? Honestly I do not know. If penetration is the issues, have you had an honest talk about doing other activities. While it is not the same, it would still allow for intimacy. |
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Post by scrimshaw on Jun 4, 2017 13:59:24 GMT -5
My wife's lack of sex is mostly physical--she can't have sex any more due to physical changes that cause her severe pain. Numerous doctors have concluded there isn't much that can be done now. As this condition got worse I think she also experienced some psychological affects as well. We used to be able to joke around about sex--she used to like bawdy jokes, comment on sexual situations on TV or in movies, etc. Now anything and everything sexual is off limits. An innocent remark I might make is interpreted as criticism of her. We can't even discuss our situation. I'd like to have a conversation with her and just see what she thinks about us and our future: five years ago her sex drive stopped, mine didn't. Does she really just expect me to forget about it and shut mine down? Or does she think that masturbation should be enough for me? But every time I try to raise it she gets angry and she says she doesn't want to talk about it. I know her condition is not her fault. If I hadn't heard it from the doctor I might have thought it was just her not wanting sex. So I thought about it a different way: if she had some serious disease (e.g., cancer, etc.) which prevented her from having sex would I feel the same way as I do? Honestly I do not know. Nope. You'd just feel guilty about feeling that way. Our SM is due to many medical issues, the proverbial straw was estrogen/progesterone receptive breast cancer. Since she had a hysterectomy/oophorectomy a couple years prior to the cancer, the diagnosis meant she could no longer have hormones ever again, and so intercourse became too painful about 3 years post diagnosis. But you do need to look at it as a serious disease she has - many women are able to enjoy sex painlessly (even if it requires use of a lot of lube) well into their later years. That sex has become painful for her is not normal; that she cannot enjoy a basic function of life is a serious impairment. I will tell you we have also gone to numerous doctors who said "nothing can be done" but she has found a doctor that has her using dilators and creams, and she sees a pelvic floor therapist (I had no idea such a thing existed). Now, do I believe that will, in her case, lead to her ability to have intercourse? No, but why not give it a shot? It's a LONG process. She's been at it literally over a couple years, although she's had surgeries in there that have set her back more than once. I don't think the doctor is scamming us, painful sex for women can become a cycle where the woman expects pain, and then her muscles involuntarily contract (vaginismus) causing more pain. So real pain becomes much worse. I must admit that the impetuous for her going to more doctors was her discovering my online affair (complete with sexting), and then us almost-divorcing. Not the path I'd recommend to get her to go to more doctors. Do you know her actual diagnosis? Vulvodynia? Vaginismus? The anger and not wanting to discuss it are psychological issues she needs to address. Particularly since she used to joke about sex and I presume you had a good sex life, I'd bet a donut she's angry at her body for "betraying her". She probably feels shame over not being able to be intimate. The inability to talk about it at all is harming your marriage in more ways than just no sex - she views innocent comments as criticism. My armchair advice would be for you both to go to a marriage counselor, and have him/her help her and you to communicate better. I'd suspect a marriage counselor would encourage her to see an individual therapist to help her with body image and acceptance. Be good to yourself. |
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Post by njsojourner on Jun 4, 2017 15:52:29 GMT -5
My wife's lack of sex is mostly physical--she can't have sex any more due to physical changes that cause her severe pain. Numerous doctors have concluded there isn't much that can be done now. As this condition got worse I think she also experienced some psychological affects as well. We used to be able to joke around about sex--she used to like bawdy jokes, comment on sexual situations on TV or in movies, etc. Now anything and everything sexual is off limits. An innocent remark I might make is interpreted as criticism of her. We can't even discuss our situation. I'd like to have a conversation with her and just see what she thinks about us and our future: five years ago her sex drive stopped, mine didn't. Does she really just expect me to forget about it and shut mine down? Or does she think that masturbation should be enough for me? But every time I try to raise it she gets angry and she says she doesn't want to talk about it. I know her condition is not her fault. If I hadn't heard it from the doctor I might have thought it was just her not wanting sex. So I thought about it a different way: if she had some serious disease (e.g., cancer, etc.) which prevented her from having sex would I feel the same way as I do? Honestly I do not know. If penetration is the issues, have you had an honest talk about doing other activities. While it is not the same, it would still allow for intimacy. She has said we could do "other activities" and I guess once I get over it more I will see if she really means it. I think right now I am so disappointed and angry that I haven't followed up. |
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Post by njsojourner on Jun 4, 2017 15:57:46 GMT -5
My wife's lack of sex is mostly physical--she can't have sex any more due to physical changes that cause her severe pain. Numerous doctors have concluded there isn't much that can be done now. As this condition got worse I think she also experienced some psychological affects as well. We used to be able to joke around about sex--she used to like bawdy jokes, comment on sexual situations on TV or in movies, etc. Now anything and everything sexual is off limits. An innocent remark I might make is interpreted as criticism of her. We can't even discuss our situation. I'd like to have a conversation with her and just see what she thinks about us and our future: five years ago her sex drive stopped, mine didn't. Does she really just expect me to forget about it and shut mine down? Or does she think that masturbation should be enough for me? But every time I try to raise it she gets angry and she says she doesn't want to talk about it. I know her condition is not her fault. If I hadn't heard it from the doctor I might have thought it was just her not wanting sex. So I thought about it a different way: if she had some serious disease (e.g., cancer, etc.) which prevented her from having sex would I feel the same way as I do? Honestly I do not know. Nope. You'd just feel guilty about feeling that way. Our SM is due to many medical issues, the proverbial straw was estrogen/progesterone receptive breast cancer. Since she had a hysterectomy/oophorectomy a couple years prior to the cancer, the diagnosis meant she could no longer have hormones ever again, and so intercourse became too painful about 3 years post diagnosis. But you do need to look at it as a serious disease she has - many women are able to enjoy sex painlessly (even if it requires use of a lot of lube) well into their later years. That sex has become painful for her is not normal; that she cannot enjoy a basic function of life is a serious impairment. I will tell you we have also gone to numerous doctors who said "nothing can be done" but she has found a doctor that has her using dilators and creams, and she sees a pelvic floor therapist (I had no idea such a thing existed). Now, do I believe that will, in her case, lead to her ability to have intercourse? No, but why not give it a shot? It's a LONG process. She's been at it literally over a couple years, although she's had surgeries in there that have set her back more than once. I don't think the doctor is scamming us, painful sex for women can become a cycle where the woman expects pain, and then her muscles involuntarily contract (vaginismus) causing more pain. So real pain becomes much worse. I must admit that the impetuous for her going to more doctors was her discovering my online affair (complete with sexting), and then us almost-divorcing. Not the path I'd recommend to get her to go to more doctors. Do you know her actual diagnosis? Vulvodynia? Vaginismus? The anger and not wanting to discuss it are psychological issues she needs to address. Particularly since she used to joke about sex and I presume you had a good sex life, I'd bet a donut she's angry at her body for "betraying her". She probably feels shame over not being able to be intimate. The inability to talk about it at all is harming your marriage in more ways than just no sex - she views innocent comments as criticism. My armchair advice would be for you both to go to a marriage counselor, and have him/her help her and you to communicate better. I'd suspect a marriage counselor would encourage her to see an individual therapist to help her with body image and acceptance. Be good to yourself. Not sure the exact diagnosis but the term atrophy was used. She has been seeing her own counselor for a few years but I am not sure whether or not she discusses this. One would think she would but I have no way of knowing. I am on here because my therapist recommenced it as one possibility. |
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Post by scrimshaw on Jun 4, 2017 16:18:59 GMT -5
Nope. You'd just feel guilty about feeling that way. Our SM is due to many medical issues, the proverbial straw was estrogen/progesterone receptive breast cancer. Since she had a hysterectomy/oophorectomy a couple years prior to the cancer, the diagnosis meant she could no longer have hormones ever again, and so intercourse became too painful about 3 years post diagnosis. But you do need to look at it as a serious disease she has - many women are able to enjoy sex painlessly (even if it requires use of a lot of lube) well into their later years. That sex has become painful for her is not normal; that she cannot enjoy a basic function of life is a serious impairment. I will tell you we have also gone to numerous doctors who said "nothing can be done" but she has found a doctor that has her using dilators and creams, and she sees a pelvic floor therapist (I had no idea such a thing existed). Now, do I believe that will, in her case, lead to her ability to have intercourse? No, but why not give it a shot? It's a LONG process. She's been at it literally over a couple years, although she's had surgeries in there that have set her back more than once. I don't think the doctor is scamming us, painful sex for women can become a cycle where the woman expects pain, and then her muscles involuntarily contract (vaginismus) causing more pain. So real pain becomes much worse. I must admit that the impetuous for her going to more doctors was her discovering my online affair (complete with sexting), and then us almost-divorcing. Not the path I'd recommend to get her to go to more doctors. Do you know her actual diagnosis? Vulvodynia? Vaginismus? The anger and not wanting to discuss it are psychological issues she needs to address. Particularly since she used to joke about sex and I presume you had a good sex life, I'd bet a donut she's angry at her body for "betraying her". She probably feels shame over not being able to be intimate. The inability to talk about it at all is harming your marriage in more ways than just no sex - she views innocent comments as criticism. My armchair advice would be for you both to go to a marriage counselor, and have him/her help her and you to communicate better. I'd suspect a marriage counselor would encourage her to see an individual therapist to help her with body image and acceptance. Be good to yourself. Not sure the exact diagnosis but the term atrophy was used. She has been seeing her own counselor for a few years but I am not sure whether or not she discusses this. One would think she would but I have no way of knowing. I am on here because my therapist recommenced it as one possibility. 1st, I am not a doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, or anything like that. My opinions are just that, opinions; born of being down this road but obviously I've centered on the medical issues my wife has, so my opinions are biased by that. 2nd, go to a sex & marriage counselor to work out the problems with discussing this issue. Even if she is discussing with her therapist, joint sessions on communication would be helpful. I'm gonna bet you could learn a few things about effective communication also (I certainly did, and I'm still learning). Don't present it as only talking about sex. Present it as talking about better communication. 3rd, assuming it's vaginal atrophy (vaginitis), go to (yet again) a different doctor, a sex & marriage counselor may be able to suggest one more well-versed with these subjects (ours was able to suggest a couple). Believe it or not, your average Ob/Gyn may not be, because their practice generally centers around pre-menopausal women of child-bearing age. If she's post-menopausal, vaginal atrophy is not abnormal, but there are estrogen creams she can at least try if she doesn't want to take estrogen orally (I think there are legitimate reasons not to want to). If no doctor yet has discussed or suggested vaginal estrogen creams or vaginal estrogen suppositories, you've not talked to a knowledgeable doctor. If she's pre-menopausal, she has a severe estrogen deficiency, and they probably should find out why that is - lack of estrogen may have other deleterious side effects, or may be caused by a serious problem, such as endometriosis. 4th, I can tell you from experience that the longer you let the anger and resentment build, the more difficult it will be to engage in "alternate activities" for both you and her. |
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Post by njsojourner on Jun 4, 2017 18:09:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice and feedback. Nothing ventured, nothing gained I suppose.
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Post by h on Jun 22, 2017 6:27:58 GMT -5
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Post by h on Aug 9, 2017 17:26:57 GMT -5
Ovarian cyst. At a recent doctor visit he said that the location and size of an ovarian cyst can cause intercourse to be very painful. Some of them can cause scar tissue to form inside and even after removal, it can take up to a year to heal. Doctor found lots of scar tissue during the W's exam but said it would most likely heal now that the cyst was removed. Since the scarring is localized, changing positions or angles could help avoid the pain.
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Post by baza on Aug 9, 2017 22:18:59 GMT -5
The cynic in me would have my money on "at least a year to heal" in this scenario Brother h . I also hope that I am proved conclusively and quickly wrong. |
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