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Post by baza on May 22, 2017 22:36:45 GMT -5
Brother h makes the point - " The medical information becomes a gauge for the refused spouse to measure the refusing spouse's sincerity in any commitment to change." So, you find out that the spouse has an iron clad, fully notarised, water tight, air tight, totally credible, slam dunk, home run reason for not engaging you intimately. Result = "No sex for you" to paraphrase the Soup Nazi in Seinfeld. Or, you have a situation where the spouses "reason" for not engaging you intimately is highly questionable, quite possibly complete bullshit, not particularly credible. Result = "No sex for you". Or, you have a situation where the spouse dispenses with bothering to even make the pretence of an excuse and just gives a blanket "no". Result = "No sex for you". The damage that you - as the disenfranchised spouse - sustain, is the same either way. Similar to some goose deliberately running over you in their RV, or some other goose accidently running over you in their RV. Your options - as the disenfranchised spouse - don't alter. Stay Cheat Leave All perfectly legitimate choices. The fact that your spouse may well have an iron clad, fully notarised, water tight, air tight, totally credible, slam dunk, home run reason for not engaging you intimately does NOT magically create a 4th option. |
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Post by northstarmom on May 22, 2017 22:38:00 GMT -5
I hope that some people do benefit from this thread. Some may benefit by finding information that their refusers put to use to bring mutual sexual passion into their marriage.
Some may benefit from this thread in other ways.
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Post by h on May 22, 2017 22:42:27 GMT -5
baza, you are correct that the options don't change. My point is that the information gained may better inform the one choosing.
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Post by scrimshaw on May 22, 2017 23:52:43 GMT -5
northstarmom , that was the intention: to help the lucky few members or lurkers who may have a chance. I'm aware that odds are not in my favor but if just one other person benefits from this, it will have been worth it. Can't I just have a little slice of optimism in one small corner of the site?☺ Yes, you can have a big slice of optimism. Your wife has presented a valid reason for not wanting sex - her doctor (erroneously) connected her UTIs to sex. She is taking the step to go to the doctor and see if she has diabetes. That is a very positive step and should be so recognized. I honestly don't know how much more you could ask right now. It's WAY too early in the process to go right to the endgame of leave/stay/cheat. That's the endgame when it becomes clear if the medical issues are real or a cover. Sure, the endgame doesn't change regardless of the reason, BUT, the reasons can (and IMHO, should) inform your decision. And hey, if it turns out she's diabetic and regulating her insulin stops the UTIs and you get back to hot banging sex, then you don't have to worry about the endgame. If you knew me, you'd know how incredibly ironic this advice is coming from me, but don't solve problems you don't have yet. Right now, you have a clear medical issue that needs to be solved. Wait until you actually have the problem of your sex life not coming back before you solve that problem. Be good to yourself. |
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Post by merrygoround on May 23, 2017 0:11:31 GMT -5
Undoubtedly, a variety of medical reasons can cause sex problems. However, what is notable in most situations described in ILIASM is that the refusers make no effort to find solutions to their sexual difficulties. In virtually all situations mentioned on this site, the refusers just use their sex problems as an excuse not to engage in any sexual activity with their mates. The refusers don't talk to their doctors or therapists. They don't offer, for instance, hand job so oral sex if they have ED or no libido or if intercourse causes them pain. It's simply not acceptable to be "too embarrassed" to talk to one's doctor if sex is painful or one has ED and meanwhile one's sex-loving partner is suffering. I notice that the refusers described in ILIASM aren't offering open marriages either to help their partners. They just don't care that much. Unfortunately, most of the refused accept their mates' lame excuses and continue to suffer in celibacy. It's understandable if a woman going through chemo and a mastectomy for breast cancer isn't having any kind of sex with her husband. It's not understandable if she had breast cancer 10 years ago and thinks it's fine that since then, she hadn't bothered with any sexual activity even though her husband is interested (This describes one of my women acquaintances). If the such refusers cared about their partners' needs, their partners wouldn't be the ones making the doctor's appointments and scouring the Net for information to try to spark refusers interest in sex. Back when I was in my SM, I thought that my refuser had ED or some other medical problem but was too shy or embarrassed to get help even though I told him that I would be willing to support him emotionally during whatever treatment he needed. It ended up that my refuser was functional enough with another woman to think he'd fathered her child. I'm now years out of my SM and with a wonderful lover. When my lover has had some problems with ED, he talked to his doctor and got help. During a time in which the medication didn't work well, my partner still did things to sexually satisfy me. When depression caused me to have low libido and no interest in intercourse, I still found ways of sexually satisfying my partner. Because I love him. I know that this thread is well intentioned, and I hope that it leads to some lucky people having the kind of sexually fulfilling relationships they long for. However, I believe that if the refused wished to include sex in their marriage, they'd be the ones posting on the Internet looking for solutions. Yes to all of this. H went to the docs yesterday for a blood and urine analysis. This harks back to a doc appointment about a month ago when he finally (with me in tow) talked about his absence/lack of libido. They are testing his levels of testosterone and other things to discount any other illnesses. 1. It's taken 20 years for him to do this. 2. Doc has already said it is more than likely it will come back normal. Confirming what I have known all along and what he has in the past month admitted. Little to no desire. Simply incompatible. 3. If testosterone levels are low he has already said that he refuses to take medication to rectify that because of possible side effects. That tells me that even if I was of a mind to remain, this would always be an issue and I would remain in SM. He doesn't see the point if we are not together either. Basically either way he says he won't take meds. |
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Post by h on May 23, 2017 0:21:08 GMT -5
Undoubtedly, a variety of medical reasons can cause sex problems. However, what is notable in most situations described in ILIASM is that the refusers make no effort to find solutions to their sexual difficulties. In virtually all situations mentioned on this site, the refusers just use their sex problems as an excuse not to engage in any sexual activity with their mates. The refusers don't talk to their doctors or therapists. They don't offer, for instance, hand job so oral sex if they have ED or no libido or if intercourse causes them pain. It's simply not acceptable to be "too embarrassed" to talk to one's doctor if sex is painful or one has ED and meanwhile one's sex-loving partner is suffering. I notice that the refusers described in ILIASM aren't offering open marriages either to help their partners. They just don't care that much. Unfortunately, most of the refused accept their mates' lame excuses and continue to suffer in celibacy. It's understandable if a woman going through chemo and a mastectomy for breast cancer isn't having any kind of sex with her husband. It's not understandable if she had breast cancer 10 years ago and thinks it's fine that since then, she hadn't bothered with any sexual activity even though her husband is interested (This describes one of my women acquaintances). If the such refusers cared about their partners' needs, their partners wouldn't be the ones making the doctor's appointments and scouring the Net for information to try to spark refusers interest in sex. Back when I was in my SM, I thought that my refuser had ED or some other medical problem but was too shy or embarrassed to get help even though I told him that I would be willing to support him emotionally during whatever treatment he needed. It ended up that my refuser was functional enough with another woman to think he'd fathered her child. I'm now years out of my SM and with a wonderful lover. When my lover has had some problems with ED, he talked to his doctor and got help. During a time in which the medication didn't work well, my partner still did things to sexually satisfy me. When depression caused me to have low libido and no interest in intercourse, I still found ways of sexually satisfying my partner. Because I love him. I know that this thread is well intentioned, and I hope that it leads to some lucky people having the kind of sexually fulfilling relationships they long for. However, I believe that if the refused wished to include sex in their marriage, they'd be the ones posting on the Internet looking for solutions. Yes to all of this. H went to the docs yesterday for a blood and urine analysis. This harks back to a doc appointment about a month ago when he finally (with me in tow) talked about his absence/lack of libido. They are testing his levels of testosterone and other things to discount any other illnesses. 1. It's taken 20 years for him to do this. 2. Doc has already said it is more than likely it will come back normal. Confirming what I have known all along and what he has in the past month admitted. Little to no desire. Simply incompatible. 3. If testosterone levels are low he has already said that he refuses to take medication to rectify that because of possible side effects. That tells me that even if I was of a mind to remain, this would always be an issue and I would remain in SM. He doesn't see the point if we are not together either. Basically either way he says he won't take meds. And now that you know he has no intention of doing anything to change his situation, you can better decide what options are best for you. No information is bad; it is all helpful in some way. |
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Post by nolongerlonely on May 23, 2017 1:58:06 GMT -5
Similar results for me - initially claims of discomfort, so I tried to be even more gentle, then complaints re-size (Had nothing to do with it, I've used a ruler, nothing other than normal within my Y-fronts), then gradual resistance to any form of sexual activity, apart from holding hands and cuddles. So I finally confronted the situation and asked head on why we didnt have sex any more. Apparently, I'm not attractive, nor 'sexual' whatever that means. Following a bout of suspected depression (me)over the whole sorry situation, I decided to cancel all hugs, hand holding and any form of intimacy in order to see if there was any sign of desire from her side to make it happen again. There wasnt. (we are talking 2008). Request for divorce 3 years ago as couldnt cope with it all any longer. Promise for medical tests and counselling. None were ever executed. I've been living in limbo since then. Am I some sort of sexual predator I used to wonder, looking at attractive women and wondering 'does she like sex' and concluding 'probably not'. And then finally, one day searching google for sexless marriage issues, I find this forum. And it unfolds that I am not crazy at all. But instead have been tolerating this awful existence for far too long. I'm not a lurker, but I havent really given you any medical facts. Maybe there is a medical term for idiot (ie, me) Idiotusgrandus. moronuslargus
I'm definitely on the road to escape however. Besides, I owe it to my poor wrist - sooner or later arthritis is inevitable.
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Post by McRoomMate on May 23, 2017 3:38:19 GMT -5
northstarmom , that was the intention: to help the lucky few members or lurkers who may have a chance. I'm aware that odds are not in my favor but if just one other person benefits from this, it will have been worth it. Can't I just have a little slice of optimism in one small corner of the site?☺ No question the overwhelming majority of "SM" is merely that the lack of sex is a SYMPTOM for a dysfunctional marriage for an infinite of reasons that boil down generally to incompatibility between an H and a W (the SM is not an aversion to Sex in general but sex with the specific H or W and it can eventually gets so bad there is no more refuser and refused there just is no sex). And h I commend you on your initiative because there is a minority of SM cases with real medical/psychological reasons which do have a hope of being cured. |
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Post by baza on May 23, 2017 3:51:36 GMT -5
I think that there are probably many marriages where sexual difficulties existed, were medically identified and were fixed.
Out in the general population, this would be quite common I should think.
Further, I think that there would be many instances of jaded marriages out in the general population where scented candles therapies were applied and the marriage was gotten back on track. I don't think this would be unusual at all.
Marriages that have the capability of being fixed, get fixed.
Long before one of the spouses googles "sexless marriage" and ends up here.
Marriages that don't have the capability of being fixed, don't get fixed.
And these marriages DO end up here.
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Post by h on May 23, 2017 7:23:17 GMT -5
I think that there are probably many marriages where sexual difficulties existed, were medically identified and were fixed. Out in the general population, this would be quite common I should think. Further, I think that there would be many instances of jaded marriages out in the general population where scented candles therapies were applied and the marriage was gotten back on track. I don't think this would be unusual at all. Marriages that have the capability of being fixed, get fixed. Long before one of the spouses googles "sexless marriage" and ends up here. Marriages that don't have the capability of being fixed, don't get fixed. And these marriages DO end up here. This is where I disagree. I think that me finding this place led me to push for a change that wouldn't have happened otherwise. By completely shutting down the possibility of getting a positive response, you are dissuading people on the fence from even trying. I get it, your marriage was terrible and you got out. Not everyone is the same as you and all I was trying to do was show an alternative that some people may want to explore. You are actively encouraging people to not bother trying. The point of this thread was to provide information for those who ARE WILLING to seek solutions and treatment, not to re-hash the same arguments over again. |
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Post by hopingforachange on May 23, 2017 9:00:37 GMT -5
bazaI found here and had to fix myself before I could attempt to fix my marriage. I don't know yet if it can be did, but we are trying. It has been 5 months of trying and while we are in a better place, we are not there yet. I would say that most of the people that find the forum are in very disfunctional relationships that lost likely can't be saved.
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Post by northstarmom on May 23, 2017 9:25:28 GMT -5
H,
If your wife has diabetes, she needs to be diagnosed as quickly as possible so she can get the treatment she needs. Untreated, diabetes is a dangerous disease that damages eyesight, kidneys and other body parts. You said that because she is almost out of sick leave, she plans to wait to the summer to follow-up with the doctor . That could be dangerous since if she is diabetic, she has had it for a long time. Also, due to doctors' vacations, it's hard to get appointments over the summer. Even if she has to take leave without pay, she needs to see her doctor as soon as possible. I've been tested for diabetes a couple of times, and both times, it took about a day. I had to fast and then drink a very sweet liquid and have, I think, my blood or urine tested. The whole procedure was not painful and didn't take that much time.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 9:53:24 GMT -5
Hope is the appropriate approach if your spouse is dealing with medical issues(and I mean actually has a medical condition and IS dealing with it). The real challenge is to sort out if that's true or if you're being manipulated. northstarmom had it right, hope is good but most of us are dealing with someone who has zero motivation to address any issues, even medical ones. Once my wife had uncomfortable sex entering peri-menopause it was just the end. There are many treatment options but her motivation to seek treatment doesn't exist and I don't bitch about it anymore and haven't for years. Therefore, life goes on without an intimate life.
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Post by h on May 23, 2017 9:56:34 GMT -5
H, If your wife has diabetes, she needs to be diagnosed as quickly as possible so she can get the treatment she needs. Untreated, diabetes is a dangerous disease that damages eyesight, kidneys and other body parts. You said that because she is almost out of sick leave, she plans to wait to the summer to follow-up with the doctor . That could be dangerous since if she is diabetic, she has had it for a long time. Also, due to doctors' vacations, it's hard to get appointments over the summer. Even if she has to take leave without pay, she needs to see her doctor as soon as possible. I've been tested for diabetes a couple of times, and both times, it took about a day. I had to fast and then drink a very sweet liquid and have, I think, my blood or urine tested. The whole procedure was not painful and didn't take that much time. The diabetes is being taken care of. The summer appointment is with the gyno to find out about the pain during intercourse. Separate issues that both affect sex. |
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Post by h on May 23, 2017 10:00:23 GMT -5
Hope is the appropriate approach if your spouse is dealing with medical issues(and I mean actually has a medical condition and IS dealing with it). The real challenge is to sort out if that's true or if you're being manipulated. northstarmom had it right, hope is good but most of us are dealing with someone who has zero motivation to address any issues, even medical ones. Once my wife had uncomfortable sex entering peri-menopause it was just the end. There are many treatment options but her motivation to seek treatment doesn't exist and I don't bitch about it anymore and haven't for years. Therefore, life goes on without an intimate life. I fully understand that there needs to be a willingness to get treatment. That wasn't why I started the thread. I intended it as a resource for those who are willing but didn't know the right questions to ask. |
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