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Post by dinnaken on May 2, 2017 1:38:31 GMT -5
Religious people are just like non-religious people (like me) - morally, a mixture of the good, the bad and the indifferent.
I can't think of a religion that isn't innately conservative and that viewpoint will extend to sex and sexuality.
FGB - Sorry, but I can offer no insights into the behaviour of cults. What I can say is that my wife's sincerely held religious belief's around sex and sexuality inflicted lasting damage on our sex-life that has ultimately proved fatal to the relationship.
I do know that, in my case, my STBX's religious viewpoint left her unwilling/unable to discuss the matter of sex with me or a counsellor.
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Post by baza on May 2, 2017 3:43:38 GMT -5
Let's say that your avoidant spouse is so because of having been brought up in a religious cult.
Your options don't alter because of this particular "why".
You either
- stay
- cheat
- leave
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Post by h on May 2, 2017 4:18:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't limit it to the Mormons though. Any religious group can teach that kind of junk depending on how the leadership interprets their particular holy book. Catholics still consider birth control and (including some Protestant denominations ) oral sex and masturbating a sin. Nevermind that there's a whole book of the Bible about passionate sex with even a few veiled references to oral. No knowledge of practices in other religions but I assume there are just as many issues. Oh joy, another thread on how bad religious folk are. Not saying religious people are all bad. Just that some church leaders interpret things in a way that leads to a lot of guilt and shame for people. Can't lump them all together. My point was that it's not limited to one particular church. There are many churches and Christian writers (Chris Taylor, Julie Sibert, Paul and Lori Byerly) out there advocating for change toward a healthier view of sex. In fact, I came across your blog curmudgeonly librarian, before I found this place. I apologise if I have offended here. I never meant it as a blanket statement. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 2, 2017 9:09:57 GMT -5
I relate to your concern. You can probably name a few "bad religious folk" you have dealt with in your time. Fortunately there are many a good, helpful, mentoring religious folk in our lives as well. Yet I think about the woman at the well, where the religious leaders were bent upon exacting punishment, while Jesus was concerned about enacting forgiveness to the woman. What I see here sets an example of how we can look at other people's mistakes and how God deals with those mistakes. Jesus did not penalize the woman. He forgave her and encouraged her to begin living a new kind of life. This is what fgb and her husband are looking for? fgb is looking for answers to help her husband ,and herself. Since I have no experience with something defined as a "cult" I will button my lip. You had me confused for a moment, and then I realized that you meant the woman taken in adultery (Jn.8) and not the woman at the well (Jn. 4). You are correct! I did mix the two together. On a side note: I find it fascinating how similar the two stories are. The woman at the well, focused on law, Jesus focused on grace, and forgiveness. Jesus had moved on, because the Pharisees where keeping score of how many baptisms the disciples had performed. The woman had already had 5 husbands and was currently living with another man. That's why she was at the well in the middle of the day, to escape all the gossip about her from the towns people. Jesus reached out to her, like the woman who was about to be stoned. Personally this all ties in to divorce. (Religion, I think we both understand the meaning of that term) In the Religious community, divorce has stood for a long time as the somewhat unforgivable sin. The Bible does not teach this, but the church has somehow convinced a lot of people that it does. Divorce often becomes a worse sin than stealing or murder. A divorced person is looked upon as permanently marred, bruised, tainted, or condemned. Although these viewpoints seem very medieval and un-Christlike, they are experienced by many people who have gone through a divorce. fgb's husband needs to come to terms with what his religious community/cult believes, but the reality of what he believes, and the reality of how intimacy/sex is a deal breaker in having a working marriage. |
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fgb
Junior Member
Posts: 21 
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Post by fgb on May 2, 2017 10:19:18 GMT -5
I can see that my post hit some nerves. I was wondering if anyone out there had SPECIFIC experience dealing with a Mormon or ex-mormon spouse. Or dealing with a partner who was raised in a religious cult that has a very strict and unique view of sexuality. I know that many religions (or frankly, most religions) have a lot of sexual baggage, but I was looking for specific support for my issue. People who have left the LDS church deal with a specific set of problems and I suspect that some of them are sexual in nature. If anyone has advice for me, please let me know.
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Post by h on May 2, 2017 10:25:23 GMT -5
I can see that my post hit some nerves. I was wondering if anyone out there had SPECIFIC experience dealing with a Mormon or ex-mormon spouse. Or dealing with a partner who was raised in a religious cult that has a very strict and unique view of sexuality. I know that many religions (or frankly, most religions) have a lot of sexual baggage, but I was looking for specific support for my issue. People who have left the LDS church deal with a specific set of problems and I suspect that some of them are sexual in nature. If anyone has advice for me, please let me know. He needs to start counseling. Knowing that his issues could be religious in nature is a helpful start for a therapist but you can't change his mind for him. He has to want to go. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 2, 2017 10:36:20 GMT -5
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Post by csl on May 2, 2017 13:21:09 GMT -5
Oh joy, another thread on how bad religious folk are. Not saying religious people are all bad. Just that some church leaders interpret things in a way that leads to a lot of guilt and shame for people. Can't lump them all together. My point was that it's not limited to one particular church. There are many churches and Christian writers (Chris Taylor, Julie Sibert, Paul and Lori Byerly) out there advocating for change toward a healthier view of sex. In fact, I came across your blog curmudgeonly librarian, before I found this place. I apologise if I have offended here. I never meant it as a blanket statement. 1 - okay, I do have to admit to being a little curmudgeonly, since that is my blog.  And I know that we are supposed to turn the other cheek, but I'm damned if I can find where the Bible tells us that we are the world's pinata! So I do react; sorry for snapping like that. 2 - dinnaken says it best, above, when he says that we all are a mix of good and bad. |
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Post by doneanddone on May 2, 2017 13:28:50 GMT -5
My husband was raised Mormon - as far as I'm concerned this "religion" is a cult. The body shaming, moral strictness, ingnoring of the self and the identity and the general idea that sex is dirty and bad did a BIG number on him. My apologies if this view of the LDS church is offensive to anyone.... He stopped believing as a preteen and left the church as a young adult but I am convinced that he was already sufficiently brainwashed enough to have a really damaged, sad (and boring) view of sexuality. I am 7 years into a mostly sexless marriage. We only have sex maybe once every 6-8 weeks. He never touches me, not even cuddles an snuggles, is uncomfortable with intimacy and is incredibly closed down. I still do love him dearly - he is my best friend. However, it's all coming to a head. Has anyone else dealt with a spouse's sexually dysfunction caused by a cult or religion? My wife was raised in Florida. Would you consider Floridian's a cult? And she has red hair. That alone should tell you how F'ed up I am. Red head, from Florida = Pale women with a short fuse. lol |
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Post by h on May 2, 2017 13:30:53 GMT -5
Not saying religious people are all bad. Just that some church leaders interpret things in a way that leads to a lot of guilt and shame for people. Can't lump them all together. My point was that it's not limited to one particular church. There are many churches and Christian writers (Chris Taylor, Julie Sibert, Paul and Lori Byerly) out there advocating for change toward a healthier view of sex. In fact, I came across your blog curmudgeonly librarian, before I found this place. I apologise if I have offended here. I never meant it as a blanket statement. 1 - okay, I do have to admit to being a little curmudgeonly, since that is my blog. And I know that we are supposed to turn the other cheek, but I'm damned if I can find where the Bible tells us that we are the world's pinata! So I do react; sorry for snapping like that. 2 - dinnaken says it best, above, when he says that we all are a mix of good and bad. Again though, I am very sorry. My comments were a reference to specific people I know in real life (pastor where I grew up, Sunday school teachers, confirmation class instructor, pastor who married us...) and not about entire religions as a whole. Rereading my other comment and I see it was poorly worded. |
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Post by Dan on May 2, 2017 14:27:54 GMT -5
... as far as I'm concerned this "religion" is a cult. The body shaming, moral strictness, ingnoring of the self and the identity and the general idea that sex is dirty and bad did a BIG number on him. My apologies if this view of the LDS church is offensive to anyone.... I'm a little uneasy with you referring to that church as a "cult". Lots (most?) religions are pretty conservative about sex. But I've known people -- say -- raised Catholic who a) are conservative sexually and OK with that, b) kinda conflicted sexually (as you describe), c) total horndogs. So I'm not really sure how much the religion has to do with it. I mean, sure, some, I suppose. But I don't think "being raised ______" is enough information to assume anything about anybody. |
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fgb
Junior Member
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Post by fgb on May 2, 2017 15:03:20 GMT -5
... as far as I'm concerned this "religion" is a cult. The body shaming, moral strictness, ingnoring of the self and the identity and the general idea that sex is dirty and bad did a BIG number on him. My apologies if this view of the LDS church is offensive to anyone.... I'm a little uneasy with you referring to that church as a "cult". Lots (most?) religions are pretty conservative about sex. But I've known people -- say -- raised Catholic who a) are conservative sexually and OK with that, b) kinda conflicted sexually (as you describe), c) total horndogs. So I'm not really sure how much the religion has to do with it. I mean, sure, some, I suppose. But I don't think "being raised ______" is enough information to assume anything about anybody. This is a good definition I found of a cult: 1) Exclusive. They may say, "We're the only ones with the truth; everyone else is wrong; and if you leave our group your salvation is in danger."
2) Secretive. Certain teachings are not available to outsiders or they're presented only to certain members, sometimes after taking vows of confidentiality.
3) Authoritarian. A human leader expects total loyalty and unquestioned obedience.It is my experience, being married to an exmormon, that the LDS church functions like a cult. It is at the very least a dangerous religious sect. I am convinced that my husband's experience with the Mormon church and what he learned (or didn't learn) about sexuality and the body at an early age proudly influenced his own sexuality. I think many of his problems come from shame, and for this I blame the church. Was the church the root of all of his problems? No, but it certainly contributed. |
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Post by seabr33z3 on May 3, 2017 3:20:07 GMT -5
People saying about sex not being discussed in the home due to religious beliefs... Was sex discussed in the home 'back then' in homes without any religious affiliation?
From my perspective coming from a very strict conservative ' religious ' background, it was taught that sex outside of marriage was a no no, but inside marriage was a wonderful thing( not just for procreation)
Specifics of sexual acts were never discussed, but as the Bible doesn't express any acts to be wrong( homosexuality aside) Then one has to assume ( as the bible says, " all is honourable in the marriage bed".
The naysayers conveniently forget about that verse AND song of Solomon.
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Post by seabr33z3 on May 3, 2017 3:21:49 GMT -5
Regarding cults... Within mainstream Christianity, LDS IS considered a cult.
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Post by h on May 3, 2017 7:18:46 GMT -5
People saying about sex not being discussed in the home due to religious beliefs... Was sex discussed in the home 'back then' in homes without any religious affiliation? From my perspective coming from a very strict conservative ' religious ' background, it was taught that sex outside of marriage was a no no, but inside marriage was a wonderful thing( not just for procreation) Specifics of sexual acts were never discussed, but as the Bible doesn't express any acts to be wrong( homosexuality aside) Then one has to assume ( as the bible says, " all is honourable in the marriage bed". The naysayers conveniently forget about that verse AND song of Solomon. That was the point I was unsuccessfully trying to make. I (and many people I know) were raised in homes and churches where the "don't do it before marriage" was the ONLY message. There was no positive message about sex IN marriage. There was no mention of it at all in a positive way at home or from church teachings. Even in the lead up to our wedding, our pastor never said a single word about sex. It is the absence of any real positive talk about sexual issues that leads to the shame and avoidance. |
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