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Post by Carol on May 1, 2017 0:57:20 GMT -5
I'm sure this has been asked before but what exactly what behavior do you all think crosses the line into cheating? Is it the physical act of sex with another person or more when you become emotionally distant to your refusing spouse? The reason I ask this is it's been a long 14 years since I've had sex with anyone and I've been lusting over another man for over a year now. There has been no physical contact between us, not that I wouldn't welcome it with open arms. Now I wonder if I've been emotionally cheating on my H all along?
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Post by dinnaken on May 1, 2017 1:43:39 GMT -5
Good Question Carol, I've been in the same situation - same length of time without sex and I too fell for another person. In my case I met her through work. I wrestled with this for a long time. In my case, I came to the conclusion that, even though nothing has happened between us, it was a form of cheating.
Google "Emotional affair" and see what you think.
However, I don't criticise myself for it (even though nothing physical has ever happened); it hasn't been a happy experience. I wasn't looking for it to happen, indeed, it caught me completely by surprise.
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Post by thefullmoon on May 1, 2017 7:17:59 GMT -5
I'm sure this has been asked before but what exactly what behavior do you all think crosses the line into cheating? Is it the physical act of sex with another person or more when you become emotionally distant to your refusing spouse? The reason I ask this is it's been a long 14 years since I've had sex with anyone and I've been lusting over another man for over a year now. There has been no physical contact between us, not that I wouldn't welcome it with open arms. Now I wonder if I've been emotionally cheating on my H all along? Your partner has been cheating you for 14 long years... Why you are bothered about youor own (illusive yet) naturaly human response to extreme situation but not addressing the real issue? What will change in your present situation either way? Where is no medal at the end even if you stay celibate till your last second on Earth and never lust after anyone....
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Post by worksforme2 on May 1, 2017 8:10:51 GMT -5
It just seems to me this falls under the category of "situational ethics". I believe most folks consider ethics to be behavior modeled on higher principles with a nobler end in mind. Normally we don't steal, but if your child was starving the stealing is wrong ethic would fall away pretty quickly. The same with killing. If you or a loved one was threatened with possible death would you stand by and allow it or would you terminate the threat "with extreme prejustice"? In the ethics of "cheating" realm one could ask one's self, if their love and affection isn't wanted or has been repeated throw away/discarded then how has the spouse been cheated? How many times does one go to the dumpster and retrieve these gifts to one's partner before it becomes OK to acknowledge they aren't appreciated or valued? If it has no value to one's spouse or partner and if it then goes some where else, how has the partner or spouse been cheated? In such a situation I would conclude that the standard for ethical behavior have been met, even exceeded, so the party or person who does not want or value the love or intimacy has not been cheated.
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Post by baza on May 1, 2017 8:20:15 GMT -5
Let's just assume, Sister Carol , that you have actually been cheating (by your definition) So what ?? The problem is not "whether you've been cheating or not". The problem is, your marriage.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 9:27:50 GMT -5
I'm sure this has been asked before but what exactly what behavior do you all think crosses the line into cheating? Is it the physical act of sex with another person or more when you become emotionally distant to your refusing spouse? The reason I ask this is it's been a long 14 years since I've had sex with anyone and I've been lusting over another man for over a year now. There has been no physical contact between us, not that I wouldn't welcome it with open arms. Now I wonder if I've been emotionally cheating on my H all along? This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but I think cheating is when you are in a marriage and unilaterally decide that sex will no longer be part of the relationship. Whatever happens after that is a result of the refuser's cheating.
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Post by WindSister on May 1, 2017 9:43:11 GMT -5
I am with Baz on this one. That's all I will say because since finding myself in a happy relationship, I have a very different view of cheating that doesn't jive with most others' here. By the time we find ourselves cheating, though, all hope is usually lost for the marriage and then why not just end it? (I know, everyone has reasons - but I still say life is short, too short, to stay in an unhappy relationship).
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Post by Dan on May 1, 2017 9:46:16 GMT -5
Even in a FUNCTIONING marriage, there is no universally accepted definition of cheating. Some try to distinguish "physical affair" from "emotional affair", but even then the lines are grey, and which is "worse" is in the eye of the beholder. If a woman lusts after "another man" in the office, is it cheating? If a man on a business trip stops by the strip club and gets a lap dance, is it cheating?
Some husbands wouldn't care if their wife was in the former situation. Some wives wouldn't care if their husbands do the latter. BUT SOME WOULD.
And THAT I propose is the most important definition of "cheating" (in the case of a normal, functioning marriage): it is what your SPOUSE would be uncomfortable/unhappy about; what THEY consider would be "unfaithful".
In other words, this argument holds no water: "But honey, all the other guys' wives don't care. Sure, she had her tits in my face, but it is not like we were kissing or even touching each other with our hands". If the wife considers that unfaithful behavior, then he's going to pay the consequences no matter what the other guys' wives think.
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Now, in the case of an SM, it is pretty widely held by members here that withholding sex in a marriage is, itself, tantamount to cheating: it is breaking the marital promise of monogamy ("sex with one") to NOT have any sex at all. It is being unfaithful to the basic foundation of marriage.
Some therefore believe that seeking intimacy outside of the marriage (here euphemistically called "outsourcing") is justified. But I think most would still consider it cheating... it is just "justifiable cheating". Note that intimacy outside the marriage may or may not include actual sex. It could be lots of sexting and/or writing naughty stories for each other. It may include actual liaisons.
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Anyway, while I'm glad you asked the question and am interested in the answers others will post, YOU still have to decide what YOU are going to do. No amount of other people's opinions can absolve you from the hurt your husband will feel if he learns that you did something that HE considers unfaithful. YOU have to decide if YOU can live with yourself if you continue the way you are or if you go further. YOU have to decide if YOU can tolerate your husbands potential pain if he finds out.
For the record, my wife gets uncomfortable if I'm in the room when a Victoria Secrets commercial comes on. I once tried to watch the movie 9 1/2 weeks with her, and she got nearly sickened that I was asking her to watch just filthy porn. So going by the "spouse's definition" rule, the bar for ME for cheating is pretty dang low.
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Post by lwoetin on May 1, 2017 14:12:55 GMT -5
No that is not cheating. Otherwise I would be a cheater. She likes it when I tell her I have been faithful. But in reality, it takes work and effort to cheat if one is not handsome, rich, athletic, confident or outgoing. Virtue is not what it appears to be sometimes, but who cares.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 14:42:30 GMT -5
Why do the refusers get to decide what's "cheating"?
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Post by WindSister on May 1, 2017 14:51:13 GMT -5
Want to add: You are dreaming of something better - that is not cheating. You are clearly not happy. I was sexless for 10 years when I started having very vivid day dreams, dreams, fantasies about other men. Some were so powerful and felt so real they would jolt me awake from a sound sleep. Those dreams spurred me on to action. I have not had any since I left. If it's really just thoughts in your mind, no, obviously that is not cheating.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 1, 2017 14:53:15 GMT -5
Cheated? Do you mean ,cheated out of money, respect, trust, communication, fun, health, mental stability, lifestyle, choices, freedom, travel, companionship, family, faith, obedience, being cherished, wanted, needed, and desired? That aspect of a marriage that a refuser gets to cheat you out of?
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Post by jim44444 on May 1, 2017 20:42:09 GMT -5
I know I have said this before but I have this fantasy that someday humans will evolve enough so that the use of the word "cheating" as applied to relationships is expunged from our vocabulary. I like to imagine a world where we no longer foolishly believe we have control or dominion over another person's emotions or sexuality. But to answer, sort of, your question Carol I would consider it "cheating" if I my wife provided a level of intamacy to another that she denied me AND forbid me to seek from another. A bit like the "situational" ethics that worksforme2 spoke of.
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Post by snowman12345 on May 1, 2017 22:25:45 GMT -5
The definition of cheating implies that the cheater somehow gains an advantage or attains something by breaking a rule or a law. However, a person can be "cheated" out of something they were expecting to get. The third definition is the one I feel defines cheating in an SM - avoiding something bad through luck or skill. In other words; cheating fate by avoiding being sexless. Webster's: "cheats; cheated; cheating Learner's definition of CHEAT 1 [no object] : to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something The players were accused of cheating. I had to cheat in order to solve the puzzle. — often + on or at She was caught cheating on a test. They cheated on their taxes. He cheats at cards. 2 [+ object] a : to take something from (someone) by lying or breaking a rule The store cheats its customers through false advertising. — usually + out of He cheated [=tricked, swindled] the elderly couple out of their property. I was cheated out of 20 dollars. b : to prevent (someone) from having something that he or she deserves or was expecting to get They cheated him out of a fair deal. — usually used in the phrase feel cheated Tourists felt cheated when they arrived and found out the cathedral was closed. 3 [+ object] : to avoid (something bad, dangerous, etc.) by being clever or lucky a heroin addict who has cheated death many times They tried to cheat fate. [=they took a risk and hoped be lucky]" But baza is right cheating ain't the problem - the sexless marriage is.
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Post by unmatched on May 1, 2017 22:49:33 GMT -5
I guess from my perspective I see it as 'cheating' when you lead somebody to believe something that isn't true, particularly if that something is important enough to be basing life decisions on. So if your partner believes you are abstaining from sexual relationships with everybody else, and in fact you are not, then I would see that as cheating. If you tell them first, then you aren't. Similarly if your partner insists that they really want to have a sexual relationship with you, but actually they don't at all, then they are cheating. If they are upfront about not wanting sex then they might be unilaterally calling time on one of the most important aspects of your marriage, but you have a clear choice, so they are not actually cheating.
The ethics get a bit more complicated. If they cheated first, or they decided you should be celibate, does that justify you cheating? I don't know how to answer a question like that. But I can think of a few circumstances where it might be beneficial: - if you believe the honesty is already gone in your marriage and you are happy to settle for a marriage without honesty because it has other benefits - if you are biding time until something happens (kids leaving, getting exit plan into shape, etc.) and you don't want to lose your mind in the meantime - if you are desperate and losing all sense of yourself and your identity, and having an affair is going to be an important growth experience that enables you to step back and make a better choice (sounds cynical, but affairs here often seem to work that way in practice)
But the lying and pretending often carries a cost to you personally, and you need to weigh this up when you are considering it.
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