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Post by baza on Mar 13, 2017 20:21:27 GMT -5
Oftentimes, an initial posters position is that - "everything is great bar the sex", and with that declaration, the first shoe drops noisily to the floor.
Then, a lot of times, silence reigns and the poster is seen and heard no more.
And often, the other shoe (and sometimes numerous shoes) start dropping.
"well, he is a bit distant now as I think about it"
"she's never been very touchy/feely"
"he withdrew right after the wedding"
"she prefers facebook to me"
"he can get pretty angry"
"she tries to control my life"
"he watches porn all the time"
"she says very disrespectful things to me"
etc etc etc, all the way up to the big ticket items -
"he's cheated on me before"
"she drinks excessively and gets nasty"
"he is addicted to - - - - - - "
"she has slapped me around"
"he has isolated me and applied the financial handcuffs"
"she claims to have been abused in the past"
"he is having an affair"
"she is using the kids against me"
"he only hits me sometimes, and only when I provoke him"
But hey !! everything is great, bar the sex.
Lots of stories start out that way, not too many finish up that way.
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Post by snowman12345 on Mar 13, 2017 21:27:37 GMT -5
You know baza I used EP and to some extent this site as a diary of events in my marriage. It's great that others understand the basics of what we all are going through. It has helped by allowing me to really see what my feelings and priorities in life are. In the end (so far) I have decided to stay in my SM shithole. I wish my wife was like she was just a few years ago, I know she will not be. Can't fix it without her cooperation. But, I have reached a point of, I guess, contentment - for lack of a better word. My AP fills many of the gaps and she is content to leave it strictly sexual. With that need fulfilled, the marriage has changed very little. Will this evolution of our relationship continue? I don't know, probably not. I do know my efforts to try and get back what it once was have been rather like "Pet Semetary" by Stephen King. It's alive, but it's not really. I am not waiting for the best opportune moment to set an exit plan in motion. Guess what folks, that moment does not exist. It is as futile as looking for the "why" of the SM. Put it in motion when you have reached the point of enough is enough. Don't wait for all your ducks to line up - they won't. Maybe just look for an approximation and let go. Sorry I went off on a rant. My way of sorting things out. |
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Post by unmatched on Mar 13, 2017 22:20:21 GMT -5
You know baza I used EP and to some extent this site as a diary of events in my marriage. It's great that others understand the basics of what we all are going through. It has helped by allowing me to really see what my feelings and priorities in life are. In the end (so far) I have decided to stay in my SM shithole. I wish my wife was like she was just a few years ago, I know she will not be. Can't fix it without her cooperation. But, I have reached a point of, I guess, contentment - for lack of a better word. My AP fills many of the gaps and she is content to leave it strictly sexual. With that need fulfilled, the marriage has changed very little. Will this evolution of our relationship continue? I don't know, probably not. I do know my efforts to try and get back what it once was have been rather like "Pet Semetary" by Stephen King. It's alive, but it's not really. I am not waiting for the best opportune moment to set an exit plan in motion. Guess what folks, that moment does not exist. It is as futile as looking for the "why" of the SM. Put it in motion when you have reached the point of enough is enough. Don't wait for all your ducks to line up - they won't. Maybe just look for an approximation and let go. Sorry I went off on a rant. My way of sorting things out. I love that you quoted 'Pet Sematary' - that is such a good description |
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Post by baza on Mar 14, 2017 2:28:09 GMT -5
snowman12345This bit - "Guess what folks, that moment does not exist. It is as futile as looking for the "why" of the SM" - warrants a post of its' own, as what you say is absolutely true. I am reminded of a post (on the old EP as I recall) in which the poster posed the question "what would have to happen for you to get out of your ILIASM shithole ?" Many responses came in. "If my spouse cheated on me" was a very popular one. "If my spouse hit me" was another that polled well "If it turned out they were gay" another. But what absolutely floored me was no-one, not even one, said - "if my current ILIASM shithole continued on for another year". Like you Brother snowman, I think waiting for "the event" or "the moment" is highly, HIGHLY, unlikely to happen. What is far more likely is one tiring of the war of attrition, just plain old 'worn down' and the time for that to happen is going to be as variable as the people in this group.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Mar 14, 2017 8:34:01 GMT -5
For me the perfect moment was: before I actually HATE.
I just barely got it done in time, but "done" it was.
I could feel my spirit scarring, my heart hardening, my personality changing into someone ickier than I wanted to become. It was like that sense of fighting off a cold - if I rest & take Vitamin C (i.e., tune into MY needs & take care of me), then I can ward off getting the full-blown cold symptoms.
I averted (most of) the deeper bitterness by acting in my own best interests before the shithole dragged me under completely.
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 14, 2017 8:41:35 GMT -5
Yes, I am another example for sure. I came here. Oh, My current marriage has been SM for many years now. Then, I started to play the "blame game" like a clever Prosecutor building my case, my justifications, my approval.
Next . . . Holy Shit moment . . . It aint really the lack of sex. That was but a Symptom.
The ULTIMATE BAROMETER of a failed marriage is lack of sex and of course we all know this really LACK OF INTIMACY.
So thus began my dig into the abyss, praying, meditating, researching, comparative analysis, digging ever deeper, peeling off layers. And the long project of "sorting my shit out". Not HERS, but mine.
In the final analysis it came down to ME, what is in my heart, my intentions, and no one's permission was anymore needed.
And the FINAL DECISION - IT IS MINE ALONE, ultimate and 100% Ownership by Me, Myself, and I. No escaping that responsibility.
So here I am - in "Preparation Mode". Oh Hell no the "Event" will just never come. The only event if there ever will be one will be MY ACTIONS.
Excellent thought provoking Thread.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 9:47:35 GMT -5
Well, I have decided that the root cause is a total lack of regard for the partner. If you love your partner, you want him/her to be happy and satisfied. If you don't, the other's happiness and satisfaction does not matter.
As sad as it is, a refuser does NOT love his/her spouse.
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Post by shamwow on Mar 14, 2017 12:18:53 GMT -5
Oftentimes, an initial posters position is that - "everything is great bar the sex", and with that declaration, the first shoe drops noisily to the floor. Then, a lot of times, silence reigns and the poster is seen and heard no more. And often, the other shoe (and sometimes numerous shoes) start dropping. "well, he is a bit distant now as I think about it" "she's never been very touchy/feely" "he withdrew right after the wedding" "she prefers facebook to me" "he can get pretty angry" "she tries to control my life" "he watches porn all the time" "she says very disrespectful things to me" etc etc etc, all the way up to the big ticket items - "he's cheated on me before" "she drinks excessively and gets nasty" "he is addicted to - - - - - - " "she has slapped me around" "he has isolated me and applied the financial handcuffs" "she claims to have been abused in the past" "he is having an affair" "she is using the kids against me" "he only hits me sometimes, and only when I provoke him" But hey !! everything is great, bar the sex. Lots of stories start out that way, not too many finish up that way. For some of us, the other shoe dropping sounds like a goddamn river dance LOL |
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Post by shamwow on Mar 14, 2017 12:21:06 GMT -5
For me the perfect moment was: before I actually HATE. I just barely got it done in time, but "done" it was. I could feel my spirit scarring, my heart hardening, my personality changing into someone ickier than I wanted to become. It was like that sense of fighting off a cold - if I rest & take Vitamin C (i.e., tune into MY needs & take care of me), then I can ward off getting the full-blown cold symptoms. I averted (most of) the deeper bitterness by acting in my own best interests before the shithole dragged me under completely. A-Fucking-Men |
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Post by lyn on Mar 14, 2017 13:03:32 GMT -5
Oftentimes, an initial posters position is that - "everything is great bar the sex", and with that declaration, the first shoe drops noisily to the floor. Then, a lot of times, silence reigns and the poster is seen and heard no more. And often, the other shoe (and sometimes numerous shoes) start dropping. "well, he is a bit distant now as I think about it" "she's never been very touchy/feely" "he withdrew right after the wedding" "she prefers facebook to me" "he can get pretty angry" "she tries to control my life" "he watches porn all the time" "she says very disrespectful things to me" etc etc etc, all the way up to the big ticket items - "he's cheated on me before" "she drinks excessively and gets nasty" "he is addicted to - - - - - - " "she has slapped me around" "he has isolated me and applied the financial handcuffs" "she claims to have been abused in the past" "he is having an affair" "she is using the kids against me" "he only hits me sometimes, and only when I provoke him" But hey !! everything is great, bar the sex. Lots of stories start out that way, not too many finish up that way. It's a definite pattern - we've all seen this so many times. I know that I'm one of those with an original post reading something like "we're really great friends, blah blah blah". Thank god for this forum - and everyone here. By posting about my own sm, receiving the generous feedback that I have, the process of facing reality and truly identifying my own situation has happened almost spontaneously. And what has almost been more cathartic, to me, is responding to other's posts. There are so many similarities in our experiences, that by responding to what another shares, invariably, a light bulb or two will often go off for me. The other shoe has definitely dropped for me. I just have yet to put them on and walk out the door. But, I will - soon. Definitely before the "HATE" sets in as GeekGoddess so succinctly spoke to. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 14:48:34 GMT -5
Another thing that I seem to read a lot is something like this...
"He/she is really a wonderful husband/wife, except for this one little problem, there is unsatisfying/little/no sex."
This is not a "little" problem, it is a huge hole in the relationship. And without sex, the relationship is NOT a marriage. It may be close, it may be somewhat satsifying, but it is NOT a marriage.
And a spouse who does this is not a husband/wife. That person is just a REFUSER!!
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 14, 2017 20:13:03 GMT -5
Silence reigns and the poster is seen or heard no more. I've noticed that often here too? Why, do you think? Is the truth too much to handle? Do they need to make more mistakes? I did. But I stayed on here. I learned by responding, asking questions, and listening. Having things typed out was so helpful to go back to and read again, and again. Written confirmation that ILIASM!
I have had experience with a few people who want to talk on PM. That's fine, only it leads to "I have to work this out", then they fall of the planet. Everyone gets frustrated, but why give up support? Especially if it seems an equal amount of helping each other?
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Post by baza on Mar 14, 2017 21:56:40 GMT -5
greatcoastal Back on the old EP/ILIASM site, the "one time" posters ran at about 80%. They'd drop their story, the comments would accrue, but then were never heard of (or from) again. "Why" this is so probably doesn't matter - but as ever, I have a theory !!! Most initial posters arrive from a position that - "Everything is great bar the sex". And most comments tend to challenge this position. So the original poster figures - "these people know nothing" and bale out. Not very many people in life are prepared to challenge their thinking or the position they have taken on an issue - and that is just human nature. "Change" is difficult. Look how difficult an avoidant spouse finds it. Look at how difficult it is for a refused spouse to make the necessary changes.
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Post by itsnotmyfault on Mar 15, 2017 1:37:37 GMT -5
greatcoastal Back on the old EP/ILIASM site, the "one time" posters ran at about 80%. They'd drop their story, the comments would accrue, but then were never heard of (or from) again. "Why" this is so probably doesn't matter - but as ever, I have a theory !!! Most initial posters arrive from a position that - "Everything is great bar the sex". And most comments tend to challenge this position. So the original poster figures - "these people know nothing" and bale out. Not very many people in life are prepared to challenge their thinking or the position they have taken on an issue - and that is just human nature. "Change" is difficult. Look how difficult an avoidant spouse finds it. Look at how difficult it is for a refused spouse to make the necessary changes. Baza and greatcoastal, I'm one of those that dropped their story, accrued some comments and then "ran away". I think it's a bit different for all of us to why we do it, in my case I had been lurking for a while and felt a bit like a peeping tom so I thought it only polite to introduce myself. I guess at the that time I felt like I didn't have much to contribute (in a way I still don't think I have much to contribute). I think there are a lot of lurkers out there who get a lot of insight and strength from these boards. The rejection does a lot to your self worth and for me that has lead me to thinking I'm not important or valued, so no one wants to hear from me ! I would like to thank you all for your wisdom and insight displayed in the various threads. A recap of my story (to save you all having to use the search function) . I've been married for 24 years, sexless for 9 and half, 10 year old twins. We've had the Talk many times, and I like to think for the last time. I've been knocking my departure plan into place and I'm just about ready to pull the trigger, but I'm stuck on the thought of telling the kids and pulling that part of their lives apart, but that's a topic for another thread. |
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Post by baza on Mar 15, 2017 2:23:48 GMT -5
You are spot on about "lurkers" Brother @itsnotmyfault .
They are the great unknown.
I'd like to believe that many lurkers still derive a benefit out of the group, and I *suspect* that could be the case with some.
Pity there's no way of knowing.
It is interesting that at any given time, the summary at the foot of the forum page shows a number of visitors to the group in the last 24 hours.
Rarely is that figure under 200 !!
Today for example, over the past 24 hours, some 54 members have been here, and 200 visitors.
This would indicate that the level of lurkers could be quite significant.
Consistently, 'visitors' to the group are more numerous than members.
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