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Post by lyn on Mar 17, 2017 23:29:17 GMT -5
You're absolutely right GeekGoddess. It's just not possible to change someone. It may be possible to inspire behavior in someone else, maybe for a period of time, but you sure can't actually change them. At least this is what I firmly believe. When we get to the point of knowing this, and moreover, not caring if they did change - we finally know it's over, time to pick up, and move on. Time to go find a life😊 |
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Post by unmatched on Mar 18, 2017 20:10:17 GMT -5
What about when the lack of sex is simply down to an incredibly low libido? Generally all is good but sex is something that happens very irregularly! It's still a significant issue I can assure you. . If the spouse with the higher libido is cool with the amount of sex and intimacy in the marriage, then, there is no problem, and statistics mean nothing - life is good. If the higher libido spouse is NOT okay with the amount of sex and intimacy in the marriage, then, you've got a problem. Either the HL needs to figure out some way to temper their needs somehow (how depressing does this sound?), or, the LL needs to work on raising their libido until at least a compromise is reached (which is often very possible). Some may argue that the LL has a "right" to withhold sex. I suppose that's true on some, rudimentary level. We all maintain the right to BE who we are. That being said, the HL also maintains the "right" to have a decent amount of sex and intimacy within a monogamous relationship. If actual LOVE is still a factor in the marriage, then, wouldn't it behoove both parties to reach a compromise? I.e., LL - work on the low libido or at the very least "put out" on occasion - HL - maybe lower expectations for quantity and quality. Very basic answer to the question. I can kind of get my head around being LL - not having a high sex drive, not feeling horny very often, taking a long time to get aroused, being easily put off/distracted by stress/thinking/discomfort ... whatever. It is hard to relate to but I can kind of understand it. Where I find it really difficult is that most partners here seem to get no pleasure or satisfaction out of making their partners deliriously ecstatically happy. And that I don't get at all. Over and over again people here describe how much they get out of giving pleasure. You feel alive, you feel connected to your partner, you feel this incredible warmth that the two of you were able to experience that together. Regardless of whether you personally get off. Yes, it might get old if you were giving all the time and getting nothing back, but it is a very basic reward mechanism and I suspect a key part of bonding in relationships. Most refusers, as far as I can see, don't have that kind of wiring at all. |
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Post by itsnotmyfault on Mar 18, 2017 21:50:35 GMT -5
Another thing that I seem to read a lot is something like this... "He/she is really a wonderful husband/wife, except for this one little problem, there is unsatisfying/little/no sex." This is not a "little" problem, it is a huge hole in the relationship. And without sex, the relationship is NOT a marriage. It may be close, it may be somewhat satsifying, but it is NOT a marriage. And a spouse who does this is not a husband/wife. That person is just a REFUSER!! THIS. Since everybody makes such a big damn deal out of the monogamy rule. Since Everybody Knowsâ„¢ that marital infidelity is worse than homicide. If the monogamy rule is such a big fucking deal, then the monogamy enforcers had better be providing what they don't want you to find elsewhere. I agree with you Smartkat, this is the truth of the matter. |
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Post by baza on Mar 19, 2017 0:17:26 GMT -5
Presupposing that you get caught, homicide is illegal in my jurisdiction, and if you get convicted, the state will put you in the boob for extended periods.
OTOH, there is nothing on the statutes about monogamy, or about infidelity (or for that matter, sexual refusal in marriage) - they are matters of personal choice in which the state does not interest itself.
It was interesting over the weekend, when Ms enna met my ex missus best friend for the first time. *Technically* I was guilty of infidelity in the period my ILIASM deal where it was running down (as I had seen Ms enna a couple of times during that period).
But neither my ex missus' best friend, nor her husband thought this was particularly noteworthy during our visit.
We had a great lunch and afternoon with them, and her and Ms enna got on really well.
I think that if you are mixing socially in a circle of people who put homicide and infidelity in the same sentence then it might be timely to review who you are associating with.
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Post by itsnotmyfault on Mar 19, 2017 16:04:56 GMT -5
Baza and greatcoastal, I'm one of those that dropped their story, accrued some comments and then "ran away". I think it's a bit different for all of us to why we do it, in my case I had been lurking for a while and felt a bit like a peeping tom so I thought it only polite to introduce myself. I guess at the that time I felt like I didn't have much to contribute (in a way I still don't think I have much to contribute). I think there are a lot of lurkers out there who get a lot of insight and strength from these boards. The rejection does a lot to your self worth and for me that has lead me to thinking I'm not important or valued, so no one wants to hear from me ! I would like to thank you all for your wisdom and insight displayed in the various threads. A recap of my story (to save you all having to use the search function) . I've been married for 24 years, sexless for 9 and half, 10 year old twins. We've had the Talk many times, and I like to think for the last time. I've been knocking my departure plan into place and I'm just about ready to pull the trigger, but I'm stuck on the thought of telling the kids and pulling that part of their lives apart, but that's a topic for another thread. Absolutely, I told myself for many years - I would NEVER get divorced because of TWO GOOD REASONS - i.e., our two children together but my "comfort zone" is now unbearable. I realize divorce sucks so bad because it is causing pain to the people most important my life . . . but it is a question of amortizing pain - expense it all now or let it build and slowly leak over my life time. So I have weighed and ACTION time soon, very soon. There are valid arguments for "staying together for the kids" both for and against - only one person can ultimately decide that and it is EACH of US in our own disfunctional and misery making M. Thanks McRoomMate, I'm just about at that point where the pain is of leaving is less than the long term pain of staying. I don't want to model this disfunctional relationship to my kids. Good luck with your action time. |
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Post by itsnotmyfault on Mar 19, 2017 16:08:16 GMT -5
Baza and greatcoastal, I'm one of those that dropped their story, accrued some comments and then "ran away". I think it's a bit different for all of us to why we do it, in my case I had been lurking for a while and felt a bit like a peeping tom so I thought it only polite to introduce myself. I guess at the that time I felt like I didn't have much to contribute (in a way I still don't think I have much to contribute). I think there are a lot of lurkers out there who get a lot of insight and strength from these boards. The rejection does a lot to your self worth and for me that has lead me to thinking I'm not important or valued, so no one wants to hear from me ! I would like to thank you all for your wisdom and insight displayed in the various threads. A recap of my story (to save you all having to use the search function) . I've been married for 24 years, sexless for 9 and half, 10 year old twins. We've had the Talk many times, and I like to think for the last time. I've been knocking my departure plan into place and I'm just about ready to pull the trigger, but I'm stuck on the thought of telling the kids and pulling that part of their lives apart, but that's a topic for another thread. Firstly, you ARE important and you ARE valued beyond treasure. Everything you feel and say is valid because you're feeling it and saying it from YOUR world, so YOU are the only true source of your information. That means you're important, and it also means that what you say is valuable which can only come from YOUR value. Secondly, the best way you can take care of your kids is by letting them see that you are taking care of you first! Copernicus, a glib reply from me, thanks I know this but have trouble believing it sometimes. You are spot on about leading by example and showing kids how to live a full life. |
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Post by Venus Erotes on Mar 19, 2017 21:07:43 GMT -5
Well, I have decided that the root cause is a total lack of regard for the partner. If you love your partner, you want him/her to be happy and satisfied. If you don't, the other's happiness and satisfaction does not matter. As sad as it is, a refuser does NOT love his/her spouse. For the most part, I agree. My hubs does love me - as much as he has the ability to love anyone. It pains him to see me leave to see another man. The significant damage done by the sexual abuser when he was 12 renders him unable to understand intimacy. Alas the abuse, taught him to love someone is to be abused by them. As for the others, I can not identify. To me, making love is the ultimate expression of love to your partner. Physically displaying ALL of your vulnerabilities, and connecting on an intimate level is so important to the relationship. Those that don't understand it need to dig to find out why. If they aren't willing to help themselves, they will never be able to help their partner. So glad I have a boyfriend :-D |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 21:15:53 GMT -5
baza, I was feeling bitter and snarky when I said Everybody Knowsâ„¢ that marital infidelity is worse than homicide. Guess I should have used the sarcasm font. I'm still trying to figure out why I should obey rules that work against me. Some of us are just born troublemakers, I guess.
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Post by baza on Mar 19, 2017 21:51:38 GMT -5
Troublemakers are about the most valuable resources society has Sister @smartkat.
They drive changes in attitudes and the legislatures.
When I think back on societal attitudes (and laws) back when I was a youth on issues like divorce, birth control, equal opportunity, having kids out of wedlock, and all manner of things, I reckon that, without troublemakers, we'd still be in the bad old days.
Mind you, there are still plenty of things today that are bullshit too.
Keep making trouble Sister, and plenty of it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 20:39:06 GMT -5
Troublemakers are about the most valuable resources society has Sister @smartkat. They drive changes in attitudes and the legislatures. When I think back on societal attitudes (and laws) back when I was a youth on issues like divorce, birth control, equal opportunity, having kids out of wedlock, and all manner of things, I reckon that, without troublemakers, we'd still be in the bad old days. Mind you, there are still plenty of things today that are bullshit too. Keep making trouble Sister, and plenty of it. Wow. Thank you, baza. I consider that to be quite a compliment. And unlike compliments to my looks or ability to appeal to men - this is a compliment on something deeper, something more essentially *me* - and something that can last for my lifetime. |
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Post by lakeside4003 on Mar 21, 2017 15:29:34 GMT -5
nice exchange!!
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