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Post by itsnotmyfault on Mar 15, 2017 7:24:02 GMT -5
You are spot on about "lurkers" Brother @itsnotmyfault . They are the great unknown. I'd like to believe that many lurkers still derive a benefit out of the group, and I *suspect* that could be the case with some. Pity there's no way of knowing. If my experience as a lurker is anything to go by, I think the group helps far more people than they realise, if for nothing more than to know you are not alone in this whole messed up sexless marriage thing. A lot of questions would have been answered when similar situations come up. Sometimes it takes a while for situations to sink in and even longer for your brain (and heart) to accept it. It took me a long time to arrive at the position that I could use this forum name, but after reading so many posts on why chasing and so forth, I finally got it and that wouldn't have happened without my lurking ! Sometimes it is easier to bury your head in the sand for a while longer and pretend that all is ok in the marriage apart from the sex, but that only has a finite life as many people attest to when they make their first post. |
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Post by nancyb on Mar 15, 2017 7:37:37 GMT -5
I think that first post is similar to walking into any group you aren't exactly thrilled to be joining but know in your heart will be good for you. Thinking AA or something similar. Hello I'm NancyB and ILIASM was a difficult first step for me for sure. I lurked for a couple weeks and now I won't shut up. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 13:39:03 GMT -5
greatcoastal Back on the old EP/ILIASM site, the "one time" posters ran at about 80%. They'd drop their story, the comments would accrue, but then were never heard of (or from) again. "Why" this is so probably doesn't matter - but as ever, I have a theory !!! Most initial posters arrive from a position that - "Everything is great bar the sex". And most comments tend to challenge this position. So the original poster figures - "these people know nothing" and bale out. Not very many people in life are prepared to challenge their thinking or the position they have taken on an issue - and that is just human nature. "Change" is difficult. Look how difficult an avoidant spouse finds it. Look at how difficult it is for a refused spouse to make the necessary changes. Baza and greatcoastal, I'm one of those that dropped their story, accrued some comments and then "ran away". I think it's a bit different for all of us to why we do it, in my case I had been lurking for a while and felt a bit like a peeping tom so I thought it only polite to introduce myself. I guess at the that time I felt like I didn't have much to contribute (in a way I still don't think I have much to contribute). I think there are a lot of lurkers out there who get a lot of insight and strength from these boards. The rejection does a lot to your self worth and for me that has lead me to thinking I'm not important or valued, so no one wants to hear from me ! I would like to thank you all for your wisdom and insight displayed in the various threads. A recap of my story (to save you all having to use the search function) . I've been married for 24 years, sexless for 9 and half, 10 year old twins. We've had the Talk many times, and I like to think for the last time. I've been knocking my departure plan into place and I'm just about ready to pull the trigger, but I'm stuck on the thought of telling the kids and pulling that part of their lives apart, but that's a topic for another thread. I hope it works out. By the way, you might want to prepare for some hysterical bonding. She probably doesn't believe you will ever leave her over this issue. |
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Post by itsnotmyfault on Mar 15, 2017 16:27:30 GMT -5
Thanks flashjohn, I'm expecting some attempt at that bonding because every time we have had the talk it seems to have led to reset bonding (not sex) and a month later it's like nothing has happened. It shouldn't be a surprise to her, but I'm sure it will be !
Oh and your blogs have been a godsend to me. I'm sure some of them you have written just for me !
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Post by itsnotmyfault on Mar 15, 2017 16:33:04 GMT -5
I think that first post is similar to walking into any group you aren't exactly thrilled to be joining but know in your heart will be good for you. Thinking AA or something similar. Hello I'm NancyB and ILIASM was a difficult first step for me for sure. I lurked for a couple weeks and now I won't shut up. LOL Nancyb, I've been lurking for more than a year and for me it was easy to delude myself if I wasn't posting, but I've realised that's all I've been doing. So it's time to face the music and make a change for the better. I'm a bit more introverted, we need people like you to carry the conversation sometimes to get us introverts joining in ! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 9:27:43 GMT -5
Thanks flashjohn, I'm expecting some attempt at that bonding because every time we have had the talk it seems to have led to reset bonding (not sex) and a month later it's like nothing has happened. It shouldn't be a surprise to her, but I'm sure it will be ! Oh and your blogs have been a godsend to me. I'm sure some of them you have written just for me ! Thank you and that means a lot. I wrote them hoping that my thoughts might help someone. I am still planning to write a book about the subject, and I may want to interview you if you would be willing. |
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Post by rejected101 on Mar 16, 2017 9:43:10 GMT -5
What about when the lack of sex is simply down to an incredibly low libido? Generally all is good but sex is something that happens very irregularly! It's still a significant issue I can assure you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 19:54:01 GMT -5
Another thing that I seem to read a lot is something like this... "He/she is really a wonderful husband/wife, except for this one little problem, there is unsatisfying/little/no sex." This is not a "little" problem, it is a huge hole in the relationship. And without sex, the relationship is NOT a marriage. It may be close, it may be somewhat satsifying, but it is NOT a marriage. And a spouse who does this is not a husband/wife. That person is just a REFUSER!! THIS. Since everybody makes such a big damn deal out of the monogamy rule. Since Everybody Knows™ that marital infidelity is worse than homicide. If the monogamy rule is such a big fucking deal, then the monogamy enforcers had better be providing what they don't want you to find elsewhere. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 11:52:36 GMT -5
Another thing that I seem to read a lot is something like this... "He/she is really a wonderful husband/wife, except for this one little problem, there is unsatisfying/little/no sex." This is not a "little" problem, it is a huge hole in the relationship. And without sex, the relationship is NOT a marriage. It may be close, it may be somewhat satsifying, but it is NOT a marriage. And a spouse who does this is not a husband/wife. That person is just a REFUSER!! THIS. Since everybody makes such a big damn deal out of the monogamy rule. Since Everybody Knows™ that marital infidelity is worse than homicide. If the monogamy rule is such a big fucking deal, then the monogamy enforcers had better be providing what they don't want you to find elsewhere. SK, you make an excellent point. If sex is important enough that a divorce happens following sex outside the marriage, then it is important enough that no sex in the marriage should result in the same. |
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Post by lyn on Mar 17, 2017 19:03:09 GMT -5
What about when the lack of sex is simply down to an incredibly low libido? Generally all is good but sex is something that happens very irregularly! It's still a significant issue I can assure you. . If the spouse with the higher libido is cool with the amount of sex and intimacy in the marriage, then, there is no problem, and statistics mean nothing - life is good. If the higher libido spouse is NOT okay with the amount of sex and intimacy in the marriage, then, you've got a problem. Either the HL needs to figure out some way to temper their needs somehow (how depressing does this sound?), or, the LL needs to work on raising their libido until at least a compromise is reached (which is often very possible). Some may argue that the LL has a "right" to withhold sex. I suppose that's true on some, rudimentary level. We all maintain the right to BE who we are. That being said, the HL also maintains the "right" to have a decent amount of sex and intimacy within a monogamous relationship. If actual LOVE is still a factor in the marriage, then, wouldn't it behoove both parties to reach a compromise? I.e., LL - work on the low libido or at the very least "put out" on occasion - HL - maybe lower expectations for quantity and quality. Very basic answer to the question. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 17, 2017 19:24:59 GMT -5
What about when the lack of sex is simply down to an incredibly low libido? Generally all is good but sex is something that happens very irregularly! It's still a significant issue I can assure you. . If the spouse with the higher libido is cool with the amount of sex and intimacy in the marriage, then, there is no problem, and statistics mean nothing - life is good. If the higher libido spouse is NOT okay with the amount of sex and intimacy in the marriage, then, you've got a problem. Either the HL needs to figure out some way to temper their needs somehow (how depressing does this sound?), or, the LL needs to work on raising their libido until at least a compromise is reached (which is often very possible). Some may argue that the LL has a "right" to withhold sex. I suppose that's true on some, rudimentary level. We all maintain the right to BE who we are. That being said, the HL also maintains the "right" to have a decent amount of sex and intimacy within a monogamous relationship. If actual LOVE is still a factor in the marriage, then, wouldn't it behoove both parties to reach a compromise? I.e., LL - work on the low libido or at the very least "put out" on occasion - HL - maybe lower expectations for quantity and quality. Very basic answer to the question. You stated this so well! However I am having one of those "what if thoughts!" Can you imagine us having to answer to, "your libido is higher than mine? (hard to imagine that being possible, but play along...) You.. want to have sex more often? You.. can't get enough of me? You ..desire me? You... want to show more passion and have more fun with me? You.. want more intimacy, so we can have more sex? In more kinky positions, and places? You mean deep kissing, and.... gasp.....oral sex? !! You actually want to stroke your hands on my ....body... morning and night? You want to laugh more, and go back to the way it was when we first met? You want to elevate my self esteem? You want me to let you show affection towards me, in front of the kids? You want me to feel ten years younger? WHAT!!!!!! (lets start yesterday!!!) Instead, the Low libido, (refuser) says, "You want to give me all that, first, and expect nothing but equal treatment in return? How dare you?! That's so selfish! I don't think I'll ever be ready for that!!" It's so sad....It's almost....(almost) laughable!  |
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Post by lyn on Mar 17, 2017 19:33:29 GMT -5
Amen Brother greatcoastal!! Tbh, it's literally far too sad to even comment on. This was the reason for my "vanilla flavored" response to rejected' s question. (Btw, I mean NO disrespect to you Rejected - this, of course just really hits home). When is enough ENOUGH? |
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 17, 2017 19:38:04 GMT -5
greatcoastal Back on the old EP/ILIASM site, the "one time" posters ran at about 80%. They'd drop their story, the comments would accrue, but then were never heard of (or from) again. "Why" this is so probably doesn't matter - but as ever, I have a theory !!! Most initial posters arrive from a position that - "Everything is great bar the sex". And most comments tend to challenge this position. So the original poster figures - "these people know nothing" and bale out. Not very many people in life are prepared to challenge their thinking or the position they have taken on an issue - and that is just human nature. "Change" is difficult. Look how difficult an avoidant spouse finds it. Look at how difficult it is for a refused spouse to make the necessary changes. Baza and greatcoastal, I'm one of those that dropped their story, accrued some comments and then "ran away". I think it's a bit different for all of us to why we do it, in my case I had been lurking for a while and felt a bit like a peeping tom so I thought it only polite to introduce myself. I guess at the that time I felt like I didn't have much to contribute (in a way I still don't think I have much to contribute). I think there are a lot of lurkers out there who get a lot of insight and strength from these boards. The rejection does a lot to your self worth and for me that has lead me to thinking I'm not important or valued, so no one wants to hear from me ! I would like to thank you all for your wisdom and insight displayed in the various threads. A recap of my story (to save you all having to use the search function) . I've been married for 24 years, sexless for 9 and half, 10 year old twins. We've had the Talk many times, and I like to think for the last time. I've been knocking my departure plan into place and I'm just about ready to pull the trigger, but I'm stuck on the thought of telling the kids and pulling that part of their lives apart, but that's a topic for another thread. Absolutely, I told myself for many years - I would NEVER get divorced because of TWO GOOD REASONS - i.e., our two children together but my "comfort zone" is now unbearable. I realize divorce sucks so bad because it is causing pain to the people most important my life . . . but it is a question of amortizing pain - expense it all now or let it build and slowly leak over my life time. So I have weighed and ACTION time soon, very soon. There are valid arguments for "staying together for the kids" both for and against - only one person can ultimately decide that and it is EACH of US in our own disfunctional and misery making M. |
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Post by Copernicus on Mar 17, 2017 22:57:57 GMT -5
greatcoastal Back on the old EP/ILIASM site, the "one time" posters ran at about 80%. They'd drop their story, the comments would accrue, but then were never heard of (or from) again. "Why" this is so probably doesn't matter - but as ever, I have a theory !!! Most initial posters arrive from a position that - "Everything is great bar the sex". And most comments tend to challenge this position. So the original poster figures - "these people know nothing" and bale out. Not very many people in life are prepared to challenge their thinking or the position they have taken on an issue - and that is just human nature. "Change" is difficult. Look how difficult an avoidant spouse finds it. Look at how difficult it is for a refused spouse to make the necessary changes. Baza and greatcoastal, I'm one of those that dropped their story, accrued some comments and then "ran away". I think it's a bit different for all of us to why we do it, in my case I had been lurking for a while and felt a bit like a peeping tom so I thought it only polite to introduce myself. I guess at the that time I felt like I didn't have much to contribute (in a way I still don't think I have much to contribute). I think there are a lot of lurkers out there who get a lot of insight and strength from these boards. The rejection does a lot to your self worth and for me that has lead me to thinking I'm not important or valued, so no one wants to hear from me ! I would like to thank you all for your wisdom and insight displayed in the various threads. A recap of my story (to save you all having to use the search function) . I've been married for 24 years, sexless for 9 and half, 10 year old twins. We've had the Talk many times, and I like to think for the last time. I've been knocking my departure plan into place and I'm just about ready to pull the trigger, but I'm stuck on the thought of telling the kids and pulling that part of their lives apart, but that's a topic for another thread. Firstly, you ARE important and you ARE valued beyond treasure. Everything you feel and say is valid because you're feeling it and saying it from YOUR world, so YOU are the only true source of your information. That means you're important, and it also means that what you say is valuable which can only come from YOUR value. Secondly, the best way you can take care of your kids is by letting them see that you are taking care of you first! |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Mar 17, 2017 23:06:54 GMT -5
Amen Brother greatcoastal!! Tbh, it's literally far too sad to even comment on. This was the reason for my "vanilla flavored" response to rejected' s question. (Btw, I mean NO disrespect to you Rejected - this, of course just really hits home). When is enough ENOUGH? - when you say it's enough. You can't change your spouse. You can accept them. You can decide what YOU do (no change, negative change like "get bitter" or positive change like "I'm leaving to grab my life by the horns). All are valid choices. What's not valid is you wanting THEM to change. (I mean: you can wish it, but by the time you've found this site, the odds are near nil of a change so large as to make the marriage tolerable) Good luck! |
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