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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 12, 2017 23:16:55 GMT -5
You chase the reason why your spouse avoids intimacy with you in the hope of correcting that reason, restoring the conditions that led to desire in the first place.
At first, this seems like a reasonable proposition: reset to factory defaults and turn the box on again.
Consider the notion that you could intentionally create desire for a person who you don't desire.
What would happen within two generations of a society that could figure that one out? Desire would no longer be an issue.
Celibate marriages would be restored.
Arranged marriages might come back. Families could make sane decisions, advising their kids based on sage wisdom -physical attraction wouldn't matter anymore.
Infidelity- gone.
There would never be divorce, and people would never change partners.
Spark wouldn't matter - maybe people would marry their best friends.
That would be quite a thing, if you could intentionally create desire for a person who you chose rationally. If you could desire a person who made sense.
EDIT for clarity of intention:
I'm inferring the perspective of the intimacy-averse spouse.
My tone is sarcastic - because an intimacy averse spouse cannot create desire for someone they don't want, any more than you can.
And yet, that is the reason we chase the why - off the assumption that if we "fix" the things, that desire will return if they are fixed.
Wouldn't that be nice if it was actually possible, what everyone here is trying, or has been trying to do?
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Post by JMX on Mar 12, 2017 23:46:20 GMT -5
Hmmm...
Did I desire brussel sprouts?
Nope. Never.
I made myself try them roasted with olive oil, salt and pepper.
I now desire brussel sprouts. All the time.
Seriously, the highlight of my day.
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Post by Pinkberry on Mar 12, 2017 23:58:44 GMT -5
The issue is that some people desire their spouses and make shitty decisions anyway. Desire alone won't solve all problems. People with super hot spouses, think celebrities, still cheat or just walk away. Relationships are hard and multidimensional.
And let's be real, desire is based on more than physical characteristics. When someone acts like an asshole, they become less desirable, no matter how hot they are or how smart or funny or rich they are, or whatever other trait floats your boat.
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Post by baza on Mar 13, 2017 0:43:44 GMT -5
If I could create my own desire for someone, I foresee an almighty fuck up looming. Here's my scenario. I want to intentionally create a desire for a person who I don't desire. In this hypothetical, that person is Sister WindSister Unfortunately, Sister awakeforthedance is already in a most satisfactory relationship - and is most unlikely to have a hankering to make herself desire me. So that leaves me jerking off. That's my read on it, but I may have totally missed the point Brother A. PS - I think you are a really nice person Sister awakeforthedance - using your name above was to make a point, not to insult you. |
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Post by seabr33z3 on Mar 13, 2017 5:29:14 GMT -5
The issue is that some people desire their spouses and make shitty decisions anyway. Desire alone won't solve all problems. People with super hot spouses, think celebrities, still cheat or just walk away. Relationships are hard and multidimensional. And let's be real, desire is based on more than physical characteristics. When someone acts like an asshole, they become less desirable, no matter how hot they are or how smart or funny or rich they are, or whatever other trait floats your boat. Absolutely!!! |
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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 13, 2017 7:37:43 GMT -5
The scenario that 1st comes to my mind is something along the lines of the Stepford wives or perhaps something like the movie where a giant seed pod is placed close to someone that is to be cloned/replaced. Sounds good unless you are the subject of the reset of amorous intentions gone wrong.
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Post by leifericson on Mar 13, 2017 8:25:01 GMT -5
I vote for Brussel Sprouts too. Roasted with olive oil, alone or in a salad. I really like them when the outer leaves get crispy. Yummmm.
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Post by cagedtiger on Mar 13, 2017 8:38:31 GMT -5
Hmmm... Did I desire brussel sprouts? Nope. Never. I made myself try them roasted with olive oil, salt and pepper. I now desire brussel sprouts. All the time. Seriously, the highlight of my day. Try a bit of caramelized Balsamic vinegar in there as well - once it reduces, you get mostly the sweet left. To answer the initial question, I have a huge issue with the premise from a "free will" perspective. If feels to me like what's being described would amount to coersion, and that just really creeps me out. |
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Post by JMX on Mar 13, 2017 8:49:41 GMT -5
cagedtiger - I do realize I am playing devil's advocate here, so please forgive. Everything we do or don't do is a form of coercion, is it not? I am in sales. Sometimes I dream of getting out of sales. When I allow myself to dream these dreams, I realize there is no getting away from sales. Cut to the most basic, benign non-sales thing you can think of and it's still sales. Everything we do is coercion.
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Post by WindSister on Mar 13, 2017 9:04:44 GMT -5
If I could create my own desire for someone, I foresee an almighty fuck up looming. Here's my scenario. I want to intentionally create a desire for a person who I don't desire. In this hypothetical, that person is Sister WindSister Unfortunately, Sister awakeforthedance is already in a most satisfactory relationship - and is most unlikely to have a hankering to make herself desire me. So that leaves me jerking off. That's my read on it, but I may have totally missed the point Brother A. PS - I think you are a really nice person Sister awakeforthedance - using your name above was to make a point, not to insult you. This made me laugh! It's Monday and I have not had enough coffee yet to dive into this complex topic. I think in a healthy relationship there is some "creation" of desire going on -- I mean, first you must desire them in the beginning (you can' t force it). But then once you are together day in and day out it takes conscious effort to keep it burning, keep it alive. It transforms, grows, evolves (the love/desire) over time. If both parties are on the same page then there is work being done by both parties to grow along with it/ go along with it. IF one party checks out, there's no hope. Simple as that. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 13, 2017 9:06:52 GMT -5
cagedtiger - I do realize I am playing devil's advocate here, so please forgive. Everything we do or don't do is a form of coercion, is it not? I am in sales. Sometimes I dream of getting out of sales. When I allow myself to dream these dreams, I realize there is no getting away from sales. Cut to the most basic, benign non-sales thing you can think of and it's still sales. Everything we do is coercion. There's a whole lot of truth in that! I found as an optician the great pleasure in repairing someones glasses, or making them quickly and extremely accurately.( all for free) However along with the service aspect , there was always a smaller hint of sales. The " please come back ,tell others ,and use our services again part." Is that part of the coercion? probably. If knowing there would be zero return, ever from the customer, would I still deliver the service part? Yes, there is the return, the sales part (if you will) that gives self satisfaction in serving. Like a SM, how much giving "service" can you do, without receiving in return? Personally I leaned towards the "service" aspect, much heavier, and pulled away from the sales aspect. I am hoping to find that in my next career choice. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 13, 2017 9:31:16 GMT -5
This is very similar to "LOVE SPELLS" if you are into that sort of thing - alot of Occult practitioners will not touch Love Spells with a ten foot pole - nothing but trouble.
Anyhow mere "Desire" is a bit on the lust heavy side. I think here folks are interested in the real deal and I mean INTIMACY and FALLING IN LOVE . . . I don't trust science enough to rely on a pill for this any more than a witch for a love spell.
I will pass and if it ever comes to pass I will say "False Advertising" at best and a very bad case of "Sorcerer's Apprentice" if there would be any effects.
A BIG NO THANK-YOU with all due respect.
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Post by seabr33z3 on Mar 13, 2017 9:32:18 GMT -5
You chase the reason why your spouse avoids intimacy with you in the hope of correcting that reason, restoring the conditions that led to desire in the first place. At first, this seems like a reasonable proposition: reset to factory defaults and turn the box on again. Consider the notion that you could intentionally create desire for a person who you don't desire. What would happen within two generations of a society that could figure that one out? Desire would be something totally Celibate marriages would be restored. Arranged marriages might come back. Families could make sane decisions, advising their kids based on sage wisdom -physical attraction wouldn't matter anymore. Infidelity- gone. There would never be divorce, and people would never change partners. Spark wouldn't matter - maybe people would marry their best friends. That would be quite a thing, if you could intentionally create desire for a person who you chose rationally. If you could desire a person who made sense. "People would never change partners and Infidelity gone"..... A tad optimistic IMO |
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Post by shamwow on Mar 13, 2017 9:39:44 GMT -5
You chase the reason why your spouse avoids intimacy with you in the hope of correcting that reason, restoring the conditions that led to desire in the first place. At first, this seems like a reasonable proposition: reset to factory defaults and turn the box on again. Consider the notion that you could intentionally create desire for a person who you don't desire. What would happen within two generations of a society that could figure that one out? Desire would be something totally Celibate marriages would be restored. Arranged marriages might come back. Families could make sane decisions, advising their kids based on sage wisdom -physical attraction wouldn't matter anymore. Infidelity- gone. There would never be divorce, and people would never change partners. Spark wouldn't matter - maybe people would marry their best friends. That would be quite a thing, if you could intentionally create desire for a person who you chose rationally. If you could desire a person who made sense. And we would never grow. As attractive as a factory reset sounds in theory, painful or not I value freedom to choose more. Personally I can't think of anything worse than being reset to a depressed doormat which is what woukd happen if my STBX ever got her finger on the button. She wouldn't even need to fuck me. No thanks. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 13, 2017 10:15:02 GMT -5
If I could create my own desire for someone, I foresee an almighty fuck up looming. Here's my scenario. I want to intentionally create a desire for a person who I don't desire. In this hypothetical, that person is Sister WindSister Unfortunately, Sister awakeforthedance is already in a most satisfactory relationship - and is most unlikely to have a hankering to make herself desire me. So that leaves me jerking off. That's my read on it, but I may have totally missed the point Brother A. PS - I think you are a really nice person Sister awakeforthedance - using your name above was to make a point, not to insult you. LOL not your fault. I failed to make the point, evident in that seemingly 100% of this audience appears to think I'm inferring the perspective of a rejected spouse who seeks to hitch their wagon to a horse that moves. Though, if you could rationally pick the person for whom you would create desire, I'm not clear on why you would choose to plant that seed in an already occupied field. In fact, I'm inferring the perspective of the intimacy-averse spouse. I might edit the original. Case in point: I was keenly - too much - aware of Mrs Apocrypha's supposed distress in not desiring her husband. Like pretty much everyone on this board's history, the lack of sexual and other forms of intimacy was a recurrent and distressing issue to both of us, because we both occupied positions that were clearly pointed toward imminent divorce. Compromise, in her having sex with someone she didn't want to (me), or me either not having sex, or accepting charity scraps from someone who did not desire me -- neither of those would be sustainable across the span of our lifetimes. We both knew it. And couldn't change it. I chased the reasons for the loss of desire. I listened to the reasons she offered. I methodically went down the list and corrected each one. We created an environment and recreated ourselves - me mostly - to have a BETTER situation and to be better people in a more effective relationship by most reasonable measures than when we began. We did this in counseling, across years. And still, no desire (for me - but desire for other men, no problem). I can remember quite a few times that Mrs Apocrypha lamented what she characterized as her lack of desire for sex. She posed it as just for sex in general - not for me (though evidence suggests otherwise, but I don't think most of us have a super-good handle on our own characterizations). So, it's not like she didn't know and also feel the distress. I'm certain that she, like any of the gazillion intimacy averse-spouses that don't visit this board, wishes she could take a pill or wave the wand, and desire her spouse. And that's why we go to therapy, right? Do the things. Chase the "why?" Why chase the reason if not with the intent to fix the reason. We do this - everyone does - with the assumption that it can be fixed. Like, if you make the change, the desire will return as sure as spring flowers after a thaw. It doesn't work like that though. You can go right down the list, check all the marks, redress the grievances, be better looking, be effective communicators, do everything and make it even better than when you started - and still no desire. My most generous guess at this is that fixing all the things pulls you back up from a state of antipathy to, if you are lucky - zero. Indifference. That, from a sexual perspective - puts a spouse in par with a stranger on the street, or the clerk you didn't even look at when buying a candy bar. It doesn't vault you back into your old job. No, you get in at the mailroom again, and then we'll see if it sparks again from zero. And, I can say as a dating man, how likely is that? |
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