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Post by bballgirl on Feb 17, 2017 8:56:13 GMT -5
'not being able' is most likely a lie. It sounds better than 'not willing'. most medical issues don't make all forms of intimacy impossible. That's exactly what I think. I work with the disabled and aging - even THEY want sex with their partners. There are many, many ways to adapt it - yes, even when the 'equipment' doesn't work at all, as in paraplegics. If your partner truly wants a sexual relationship and you make the unilateral decision that you're not going to meet that need? I have to question the relationship altogether. In that situation, if I were LL and didn't want HL to seek sexual expression outside the marriage, I'd find a way to meet that need creatively. We'd come to a compromise. Isn't that what marriage is? Meeting each other's needs with love and compromise? I'd guess there's more to the story than that though. Some power dynamic or latent resentment on the part of LL (or HL). Possibly HL has already found a way to get sexual needs met and is just keeping quiet about it. I agree. HL is getting his needs met in some way that LL does not know about. My ex would have never suspected that I was outsourcing. My AP even commented once that all of my friends and family would never suspect me to be "cheating" because I don't "seem the type". However the bottom line is everyone that likes sex needs it and will eventually figure out a way to get it. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 17, 2017 9:12:30 GMT -5
That's exactly what I think. I work with the disabled and aging - even THEY want sex with their partners. There are many, many ways to adapt it - yes, even when the 'equipment' doesn't work at all, as in paraplegics. If your partner truly wants a sexual relationship and you make the unilateral decision that you're not going to meet that need? I have to question the relationship altogether. In that situation, if I were LL and didn't want HL to seek sexual expression outside the marriage, I'd find a way to meet that need creatively. We'd come to a compromise. Isn't that what marriage is? Meeting each other's needs with love and compromise? I'd guess there's more to the story than that though. Some power dynamic or latent resentment on the part of LL (or HL). Possibly HL has already found a way to get sexual needs met and is just keeping quiet about it. I agree. HL is getting his needs met in some way that LL does not know about. My ex would have never suspected that I was outsourcing. My AP even commented once that all of my friends and family would never suspect me to be "cheating" because I don't "seem the type". However the bottom line is everyone that likes sex needs it and will eventually figure out a way to get it. Yes - this is the most "PRACTICAL" of solutions. Still I think it is a pity that HL is settling for less. Why be in a relationship where "Outsourcing" either overt or covert is required in the first place? The "CHEMISTRY" here is obviously not balanced and the relationship is essentially a LIE. As one who has outsourced - all I can say is it is a "Coping Mechanism" and does not really fix the underlying problem. And it is really just awful or "survival" mode - well at least for me. I would dread thinking my choice is stay in an SM and outsource until my days are done. What a horrible fate. Are we not all here because we want to be in a Loving Long Term Relationship in which the sex is good. I mean this is not "I need to get laid" forum I think 99% of the Members of this Forum want a Healthy Loving MONOGAMOUS Relationship - and I will humbly say that sure is my objective ultimately. |
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Post by iceman on Feb 17, 2017 9:18:46 GMT -5
Unless the medical condition is something like paralysis or excruciating back pain when the move not being willing to engage in some sort of initimate/sexual activity is a choice. There are many other options that don't require a penis in a vagina that can be quite fulfilling. They're fulfilling even when standard sex is available to give some variety. Just the LL making the effort and being open to such alternatives would mean so much.
My W says she has medical issues affecting her ability to have sex and it's nothing like paralysis or back problems. I'm a bit skeptical since they seem to come and go as she sees fit and she makes very little effort to address the issues. Trying to be understanding I broached the topic of alternatives, BJ's, HJ's. I even mentioned me jerking off myself while she assisted. I offered to try to satisfy her in some way of her choice that doesn't require penetration. She had no interest. Usually she just ignored me.
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 17, 2017 9:29:59 GMT -5
I agree. HL is getting his needs met in some way that LL does not know about. My ex would have never suspected that I was outsourcing. My AP even commented once that all of my friends and family would never suspect me to be "cheating" because I don't "seem the type". However the bottom line is everyone that likes sex needs it and will eventually figure out a way to get it. Yes - this is the most "PRACTICAL" of solutions. Still I think it is a pity that HL is settling for less. Why be in a relationship where "Outsourcing" either overt or covert is required in the first place? The "CHEMISTRY" here is obviously not balanced and the relationship is essentially a LIE. As one who has outsourced - all I can say is it is a "Coping Mechanism" and does not really fix the underlying problem. And it is really just awful or "survival" mode - well at least for me. I would dread thinking my choice is stay in an SM and outsource until my days are done. What a horrible fate. Are we not all here because we want to be in a Loving Long Term Relationship in which the sex is good. I mean this is not "I need to get laid" forum I think 99% of the Members of this Forum want a Healthy Loving MONOGAMOUS Relationship - and I will humbly say that sure is my objective ultimately. I agree it is a "coping mechanism". It's a bandaid. It's not a solution but it serves a purpose. For me it made me more angry and resentful prior to meeting my AP. I could remember getting fixed up, putting my makeup on while H was sleeping even crying a little because I had to have sex with another man because my H wouldn't. Then the drive over I'd reset my emotions and get excited because I was going to have sex and great sex at that! Then after I left to go back home, I was in a great mood, so happy, nicer to my H. It was a vicious cycle of crazy emotions. Outsourcing served two purposes for me: 1) Gave me back my self confidence 2) Helped me understand that I didn't want to be married anymore. It encouraged me to live an authentic life and get a divorce. After the divorce, sex with my AP got even better, frequency tripled, and now we are friends. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 17, 2017 9:47:06 GMT -5
Yes - this is the most "PRACTICAL" of solutions. Still I think it is a pity that HL is settling for less. Why be in a relationship where "Outsourcing" either overt or covert is required in the first place? The "CHEMISTRY" here is obviously not balanced and the relationship is essentially a LIE. As one who has outsourced - all I can say is it is a "Coping Mechanism" and does not really fix the underlying problem. And it is really just awful or "survival" mode - well at least for me. I would dread thinking my choice is stay in an SM and outsource until my days are done. What a horrible fate. Are we not all here because we want to be in a Loving Long Term Relationship in which the sex is good. I mean this is not "I need to get laid" forum I think 99% of the Members of this Forum want a Healthy Loving MONOGAMOUS Relationship - and I will humbly say that sure is my objective ultimately. I agree it is a "coping mechanism". It's a bandaid. It's not a solution but it serves a purpose. For me it made me more angry and resentful prior to meeting my AP. I could remember getting fixed up, putting my makeup on while H was sleeping even crying a little because I had to have sex with another man because my H wouldn't. Then the drive over I'd reset my emotions and get excited because I was going to have sex and great sex at that! Then after I left to go back home, I was in a great mood, so happy, nicer to my H. It was a vicious cycle of crazy emotions. Outsourcing served two purposes for me: 1) Gave me back my self confidence 2) Helped me understand that I didn't want to be married anymore. It encouraged me to live an authentic life and get a divorce. After the divorce, sex with my AP got even better, frequency tripled, and now we are friends. Even crying, well I rarely cry, but your post here is just really hits home. I can relate to this so profoundly. I think I just got a little deeper towards the truth of things simply by reading your post. Very honest, very powerful. Totally relate. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 17, 2017 10:44:57 GMT -5
Unless the medical condition is something like paralysis or excruciating back pain when the move not being willing to engage in some sort of initimate/sexual activity is a choice. There are many other options that don't require a penis in a vagina that can be quite fulfilling. They're fulfilling even when standard sex is available to give some variety. Just the LL making the effort and being open to such alternatives would mean so much. My W says she has medical issues affecting her ability to have sex and it's nothing like paralysis or back problems. I'm a bit skeptical since they seem to come and go as she sees fit and she makes very little effort to address the issues. Trying to be understanding I broached the topic of alternatives, BJ's, HJ's. I even mentioned me jerking off myself while she assisted. I offered to try to satisfy her in some way of her choice that doesn't require penetration. She had no interest. Usually she just ignored me. If I may say so Iceman - you are doing everything reasonable, considerate, and way above and beyond your duty. Respect to your honesty and courage to talk and offer things like that to your W to find solutions. "Usually just ignores you"  Here is the 64 Dollar question - what are still doing in this relationship? It seems you have gone to 150% of a total effort of Love and Solutions and she has pure contempt. What are you doing still in this relationship? |
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 17, 2017 11:14:16 GMT -5
This sure is a detailed hypothetical. ;-)
I agree that "medically impossible" would have to be catastrophic to eliminate all options. That excuse gets trotted out far too conveniently. If someone like Stephen Hawking can manage a sexual relationship, I daresay anyone can - unless they are *unwilling*.
The real tragedy is refusing to discuss the situation like mature adults, and honestly collaborating on a mutually agreeable solution. And you know what? That solution might be to "agree to disagree", and accept that the marriage is no longer compatible.
The unacceptable solution is to deny the facts, and refuse to discuss the subject for fear of the logical conclusion. Instead, cutting off the spouse wholesale, keeping them in the dark (or perpetual carrot on a stick). That is the most disrespectful of all outcomes, where the spouse is not respected enough to be party to a major life decision.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 11:24:53 GMT -5
When it comes to medical it certainly a case by case issue. Then if they are having a health love life before the issues then it won't be a problem discussing things they can do it get around the problem, which could be fun foreplay in itself.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 12:45:13 GMT -5
This has been a very interesting thread. I started it to find out about possible solutions, and it became about motivation to improve the marriage. I happen to agree with all of you.
If one spouse is unable to engage in any sexual activity with the other, it implies that the marriage is not a fulfilling one. By the mere fact that the refuser is not willing to explore sexual activities with his/her victim, the marriage CANNOT be a happy one.
A minister friend of mine has said that he knew of several couples who had been married for decades. When one of the spouses became seriously ill, that spouse expressed extreme sorrow for not being able to fulfill the other spouse, and told the other spouse that he/she should find someone else to fulfill them sexually. This was because that ill spouse could not bear seeing the other spouse denied sexual intimacy. But then spouse would refuse to do this because he/she had been sexually fulfilled for so many years by the ill spouse. He told me it really was a picture of love.
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Post by iceman on Feb 17, 2017 13:32:00 GMT -5
Unless the medical condition is something like paralysis or excruciating back pain when the move not being willing to engage in some sort of initimate/sexual activity is a choice. There are many other options that don't require a penis in a vagina that can be quite fulfilling. They're fulfilling even when standard sex is available to give some variety. Just the LL making the effort and being open to such alternatives would mean so much. My W says she has medical issues affecting her ability to have sex and it's nothing like paralysis or back problems. I'm a bit skeptical since they seem to come and go as she sees fit and she makes very little effort to address the issues. Trying to be understanding I broached the topic of alternatives, BJ's, HJ's. I even mentioned me jerking off myself while she assisted. I offered to try to satisfy her in some way of her choice that doesn't require penetration. She had no interest. Usually she just ignored me. If I may say so Iceman - you are doing everything reasonable, considerate, and way above and beyond your duty. Respect to your honesty and courage to talk and offer things like that to your W to find solutions. "Usually just ignores you" Here is the 64 Dollar question - what are still doing in this relationship? It seems you have gone to 150% of a total effort of Love and Solutions and she has pure contempt. What are you doing still in this relationship? I'm doing very little actually. My W and I largely lead separate lives. The only thing that brings us together is for our kids. I reached my limits with being rejected so I just quit trying. The odd thing is that while it's sad it's also a lot more relaxing. I don't worry about getting rejected anymore. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 17, 2017 19:04:58 GMT -5
If I may say so Iceman - you are doing everything reasonable, considerate, and way above and beyond your duty. Respect to your honesty and courage to talk and offer things like that to your W to find solutions. "Usually just ignores you" Here is the 64 Dollar question - what are still doing in this relationship? It seems you have gone to 150% of a total effort of Love and Solutions and she has pure contempt. What are you doing still in this relationship? I'm doing very little actually. My W and I largely lead separate lives. The only thing that brings us together is for our kids. I reached my limits with being rejected so I just quit trying. The odd thing is that while it's sad it's also a lot more relaxing. I don't worry about getting rejected anymore. Jumping Jehova-Fish! You are not worried about getting rejected by your W? Me oh my, if you are OK with this as your "Marriage" then so be it. Only thing left I got to say is for the past 10 years my Mantra was I had 2 very good reasons to stay married and that was our 2 Children together. I am just at a point now where that will not suffice. I got the grey hairs sprouting and I see old people walking down the street and my last grandparent just died. Sooner or later death makes us all equal, I am not so inclined to spend whatever life I have left in a passionless marriage when Life is for the living. |
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Post by lwoetin on Feb 17, 2017 22:08:53 GMT -5
I'm doing very little actually. My W and I largely lead separate lives. The only thing that brings us together is for our kids. I reached my limits with being rejected so I just quit trying. The odd thing is that while it's sad it's also a lot more relaxing. I don't worry about getting rejected anymore. Jumping Jehova-Fish! You are not worried about getting rejected by your W? Me oh my, if you are OK with this as your "Marriage" then so be it. Only thing left I got to say is for the past 10 years my Mantra was I had 2 very good reasons to stay married and that was our 2 Children together. I am just at a point now where that will not suffice. I got the grey hairs sprouting and I see old people walking down the street and my last grandparent just died. Sooner or later death makes us all equal, I am not so inclined to spend whatever life I have left in a passionless marriage when Life is for the living. before you start screaming wildly, what has gotten into you? Did you meet a lovely lady recently? |
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Post by cc on Feb 17, 2017 22:41:00 GMT -5
This has been a very interesting thread. I started it to find out about possible solutions, and it became about motivation to improve the marriage. I happen to agree with all of you. If one spouse is unable to engage in any sexual activity with the other, it implies that the marriage is not a fulfilling one. By the mere fact that the refuser is not willing to explore sexual activities with his/her victim, the marriage CANNOT be a happy one. A minister friend of mine has said that he knew of several couples who had been married for decades. When one of the spouses became seriously ill, that spouse expressed extreme sorrow for not being able to fulfill the other spouse, and told the other spouse that he/she should find someone else to fulfill them sexually. This was because that ill spouse could not bear seeing the other spouse denied sexual intimacy. But then spouse would refuse to do this because he/she had been sexually fulfilled for so many years by the ill spouse. He told me it really was a picture of love. I have had two close friends dealing with terminal cancer. Those women still longed for intimacy with their husbands and they found ways to do so. They didn't want to lose a moment that they could muster to love each other. I have thrown those two friends in my H's face. LIKE LOOK, these women and men can't keep each other but they are hanging on while they can. He just looks down. It makes me violent. I have to walk away. Save |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 18, 2017 1:54:02 GMT -5
Jumping Jehova-Fish! You are not worried about getting rejected by your W? Me oh my, if you are OK with this as your "Marriage" then so be it. Only thing left I got to say is for the past 10 years my Mantra was I had 2 very good reasons to stay married and that was our 2 Children together. I am just at a point now where that will not suffice. I got the grey hairs sprouting and I see old people walking down the street and my last grandparent just died. Sooner or later death makes us all equal, I am not so inclined to spend whatever life I have left in a passionless marriage when Life is for the living. before you start screaming wildly, what has gotten into you? Did you meet a lovely lady recently? Apologies - I will calm down. Hope nobody was offended. |
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Post by lwoetin on Feb 18, 2017 7:48:38 GMT -5
before you start screaming wildly, what has gotten into you? Did you meet a lovely lady recently? Apologies - I will calm down. Hope nobody was offended. I didn't mean it in a negative way.  Seems you flipped a switch and you are full of confidence and courage lately. That's a good thing. |
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Seems you flipped a switch and you are full of confidence and courage lately. That's a good thing. 