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Post by baza on Jan 18, 2017 23:15:35 GMT -5
When your deal reaches ILIASM shithole status, who is unwilling to engage in sex and who is willing to engage is sex has long passed into irrelevancy.
So has what you want to call the protagonists.
"Him" and Her" would be just as useful.
As would "dysfuntional person A" and "dysfunctional person B".
Or "The one who wants to do something about it" and "the one who does not want to do anything about it".
"Refused" and "refuser" works for me, but if I ever comment on a post of sunniedays from now on, I won't use those words.
Fat lot of difference that will make to the facts on the ground about an ILIASM deal either way.
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Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 18, 2017 23:40:45 GMT -5
wow, lots of words.
we all know why we're here...
words help (or sometimes hurt) the overall discussion, very often cathartic.
sunnidays - i don't disagree with any of your positions and can very easily respect where you're coming from. I certainly still love my wife, but in an increasingly similar way to how I love my sister. I don't want to live with my sister, or a roommate. I want a lover, a sensuous woman who knows what turns her on and knows how to suggest it. Someone with I'll know our next day is likely to be playful, open and honest and comfortable expressing ourselves in so many ways...
I'm not going to settle for living a life without that anymore.
She's not a rotten person, far from it - she has a good soul and has a gentle spirit. we're just hopelessly incompatible in the realm of playfulness, affection, sensuality, letting go, self-esteem, worrying about what others might think - and most importantly - and the joys of sex and the consistent desire to pleasure each other. That 'super glue' has been missing for a long time...
I believe most of us here have frustrations and deep complications beyond just sex - but as we all know, in a normal, healthy marriage there's lots of give and take, allowing for differences and much more - and - being the person who consistently avoids the act, or intimate discussion of the spouses concerns and desires is what we're all focused on.
words cannot describe the depths of frustration, despair and hurt we all feel, however prosaic we all can be...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 23:46:49 GMT -5
Sunniedays Venting isn't a solution to the problem, it's just necessary for our sanity. Personally, any venting I do here is instead of doing it to my wife so the communication I have with her is more constructive. To that extent it does actually mitigate the situation. Exactly. I did do what the conventional wisdom suggested, and tried to Talk To Him About the Problem™ and Work On the Relationship™. He pretty soon made it clear that he had much less interest in Talking™ and Working™ than I did. I *needed* to talk about it - with people who would not automatically assume I was the one who was bad and wrong and had better make concessions to what he wanted. So, I found the EP ILIASM group. It was like coming home, to see how many people understood how badly I was hurting - and didn't minimize my feelings or my needs. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 19, 2017 1:16:51 GMT -5
Well, Apocrypha & sunniedays, I was wondering what the hell you two are doing here. From this thread it seems you are here to make trouble. I'm done with the petty ridiculousness of you pair. If you only came here to belittle and argue, you really need to look at yourselves long and hard. And perhaps find a different discussion board more in line with your own views and beliefs. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 19, 2017 1:23:22 GMT -5
Well fuck me in the ass! I never bloody realised you are a refuser sunniedays That's shown me up for not reading back stories. I see why the attitude now. And I was just going to send you a big virtual hug eternaloptimism - but clearly, you're looking for something that I can't give you. Not that I REFUSE to, I'd just have to have several stiff cocktails and strap something on first. Lol..... I'll NEVER be a refuser...... this is my MANTRA😉 Mustn't succumb to the dark side ha ha x |
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Post by Pinkberry on Jan 19, 2017 1:59:03 GMT -5
It seems the thread has gone off course a touch, but I'll add my two cents by way of drawing attention to my sig line. Yes please, glance down and read it now.
Don't deceive yourself. It makes no difference how someone may justify the refusing, or how they just let it happen. The why is not the thing. I'd venture to say that when you can get past the notion that the why is important, you are on the right path to getting your situation sorted out, one way or the other.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 19, 2017 2:45:59 GMT -5
Well, Apocrypha & sunniedays , I was wondering what the hell you two are doing here. From this thread it seems you are here to make trouble. I'm done with the petty ridiculousness of you pair. If you only came here to belittle and argue, you really need to look at yourselves long and hard. And perhaps find a different discussion board more in line with your own views and beliefs. If there's one thing I've learned today from you and from another member or two, it's that some people on this board that have views and beliefs and do not like them to be challenged. It has members who feel that they should enforce those norms. Support, when framed in such a way, does not threaten the narrative that's initially presented. You've got an orthodoxy with which you feel I'm not cooperating, so I should stop taking time out of my day and move on. I can do that. Best of luck, all. |
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Post by tamara68 on Jan 19, 2017 6:33:35 GMT -5
Those who want sex and those who don't simply don't belong together as spouses. They can be platonic friends at best.
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Post by LITW on Jan 19, 2017 14:24:02 GMT -5
I have considered all of these as reasons my wife has become sexually numb ...
extremely low libido
physical impairment
they're possibly gay/lesbian
they just 'take us for granted'
trust/avoidance issues from childhood
they believe were not attracted to them
and adding to the list: Unable (unwilling?) to let go of stress/anxiety long enough to allow herself to feel anything sexual.
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Post by unmatched on Jan 19, 2017 19:10:49 GMT -5
I just want to say - I have always found Apocrypha 's SM history to be very interesting and useful to hear about, and his posts to be insightful and also useful. So Apocrypha I hope you don't disappear! |
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Post by baza on Jan 19, 2017 20:11:57 GMT -5
Hang about Brother apochrypha.
There's a post on here today from "itsverycomplex" which is crying out for comment by someone expert in the open marriage caper.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 19, 2017 20:25:09 GMT -5
I didn't find sunniedays or Apocrypha to be petty or belittling. Challenging? Yes. Is that helpful? It can be. I hope you two will NOT disappear. I was so happy to see Apocrypha pop up on this board lately - I remember from EP. A brilliantly quiet questioning voice. Very philosophically helpful to me. And, while I do use the term refuser & I probably will still slip into that usage, I understand the point sunniedays was trying to make. Examine myself. Examine my word usage. Check out the broad brush I am using and scale back the coverage to useful instead of getting carried away with labels. I hope you folks WILL stay commenting. *& I still love eternaloptimism as well! |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 20, 2017 2:27:29 GMT -5
Your comments are appreciated - thank you.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 20, 2017 3:39:47 GMT -5
Your comments are appreciated - thank you. I apologise Apocrypha. Reading back through some of the posts it seems I tarred you with the same brush as sunniedays. I dont think you are here here to make trouble. I'm sorry. |
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Post by thebaffledking on Jan 20, 2017 9:11:11 GMT -5
I don't like how when we hit a certain level we are identified as FULL MEMBERS. For us SM men, it is a mocking and cruel title. (-;
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