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Post by WindSister on Mar 23, 2017 12:23:13 GMT -5
WindSister - that explanation, I can definitely understand! Thank YOU for clarifying. Makes perfect sense. When I think of second wife - I think new, bright and shiny car! If I get divorced, the only stigma I would be upset about (I have said before in this thread - it's not the "being divorced" aspect that bothers me) would be the outward appearance that - if he found someone else (and especially if I did not) - she would be better than me. This would make ME a selfish brat - which I admit, I absolutely can be. And I also would never say this to him, or anyone in public, but will put it here. I freely admit that I would have to sincerely work on being happy for him. It would continue to hurt that the life we built with our kids was no more, that someone else would have a family dinner with MY family and it not include me. That I would have to share holidays with HER. I have a friend going through this now, and it's painful to watch even NOT living it personally. I could imagine those feelings only needing time and, unfortunately, someone else I would be happy with to make them go away. It's not right, but there it is. So, fair to say, the first and second share the same insecurities, just reversed, basically. And, actually, that has been a consideration for me all along. Though I don't think so highly of myself to ever think anyone is jealous of me. I usually come up short in my own mind when I play the useless comparison game. Outward appearances and divorce - oh yes. That's all of it, isn't it? That's most of my own insecurities - what do people think? And it is such a waste of time, but it's so hard to reel in and control and/or let go. I was walking on egg shells the first couple years, only now letting myself be fully myself. However, in an effort to keep myself above games I do try to question any act on my part, "is this is genuine or am I trying to make a statement?" If I am trying to make a statement, I hope I don't do it. I can't promise I have been perfect at that, but I am aware of it and question. To be honest, just until recently I felt this deep inner drive to "mark my territory" "Stake my claim" like some wild creature. Not that I fully acted on that, but I felt the "need." Some weird left-over biological need? On the flip side, though, I don't want to "play small" just because she is around. His daughters gave me full permission to "be a grandma" to their kids -- so I am being the kind of grandma I have always dreamed of being without apology. If someone feels I am stepping on toes, that's not on me and I can't waste my time worrying about it. His daughters are the ones who came up with the phrase, "There's no 'step' in Grandma!!" (love them, heart melted) So I get to claim the grandkids as my own, shared with many other grandparents (split families on both sides -- that's a whole lotta grandmas and grandpas). I see many times his ex coming in with "claims" reminding everyone she is a BIO Nana - and now I just shrug it off. Reality is -- she is the bio. That doesn't make my existence any less valid in their lives. It's not a competition. It's her own insecurities shining through with that need to stake HER claim - no worse than my own. I can give that to her now, a few weeks ago I could not. I have friends who are divorced who admitted to me they say "ew" when they see pictures of the new wife with their kids or grandkids on Facebook. So I am sure she's not above all that when we put ours out there, too, but like I said, I am not trying to make a statement, I am acting as the grandma I get to be without worrying about what she is thinking because her daughters gave me that permission. BUT -- I think the point I like to make is there are consequences to divorce, just like there are consequences to marriage. I think a lot of times we run into things willy-nilly without so much a thought as to what might occur afterwards. I think it's important to explore what will change after divorce, what one might face, because it's not all roses and sunshine, weird stuff can get ya. I am not saying that because hard things pop up after divorce (was that a pun?) one shouldn't get divorced. I am just saying be ready for some weirdness and new challenges to face within. I think it's important we hone in on our own values, morals and the kind of person we want to be so we aren't quick to react negatively in those sticky situations. I know that's the only thing that saved me from causing some major raucous with all those ugly thoughts in my own head!! |
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Post by WindSister on Mar 23, 2017 12:42:26 GMT -5
Sorry, I had another thought!! I write too much, I know...
But, more on "appearances" - I just have to say, it bugged the heck out of me that my husband is seen as an "asshole" by her and her cronies because of the story she has told everyone.
He never says bad things about her to them nor defends himself (pretty non-asshole traits if you ask me) because he says, "Truth doesn't need to be defended." So now I accept, and kind of laugh at the fact, that I am with an asshole. Mr. and Mrs. Asshole by all who want to think so. It's simply not true, but I won't write a novel about that.... lol. Everyone has their side of the story when it comes to divorce, sides are picked and the most charming will win. He's too raw and honest to win those kind of contests. lol
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 23, 2017 12:58:39 GMT -5
Even though I am not divorced, (yet) Even though there are no other new husband or wife (yet). There has been my FIL living with us for 10 yrs. On a positive note I (and our therapist) don't see my STBX ever getting re-married. However she will be content with her work, and having her daddy remain living with her. She has full control over him, just like her mother did. He even calls her "the boss".
What that did for me, was it showed me what it is like to compete with another man in the house. She will come home and speak with him for hours, or totally ignore him (and everyone), she will whisper things in private to him, and he begins to take on fatherly roles by loving the children, and trying to order them to do things, and correct them. The kids have told him for years, "your not my parent". So he buys them things, pays them to take him places, and is constantly calling on them for help.
From the day he wanted to move in with us and we went looking for a bigger house, I wanted him to live separately in the house. My controlling wife and her daddy wanted him right in the middle of the house so he could "feel welcome,and not left out".
The book "Boundaries in Marriage " has a whole chapter about intruder relative, and grandparents.
9 months into our slow going divorce, I see him trying to take on more of the father role, (he tries not to get involved) so I am already dealing with knowing once we have separate households the "intruder FIL" will have a new role. I doubt the teens are going to abide by it.
It's almost sick in a way. Like my STBX will have a new husband, her own 85 yr old daddy...weird. So much for the "husband and wife leaving their parents and cleaving to their spouse. It's like she never left. It speaks volumes of her own insecurities, and my own securities of tolerating the intrusion for ten years. There was so little relationship left anyways. All family business.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 24, 2017 9:16:52 GMT -5
Separated in my mid-40s and have dated quite a bit (living in a metropolitan city) for 3 years. I have never felt stigmatized, except sometimes for the close state of separation with my kids' mother. If anything, I've come to stigmatize women who have NOT ever been married, noting a consistent (without a single exception so far) pattern of narcissism among them. Perhaps when you live alone for so long, you lose the ability to intuit how to anticipate or accommodate the needs of people who have other social obligations, like a family or co-parent, or a smaller dating window. Or perhaps they are just in such high demand that they can afford to be as picky as they want to be. The result is the same though, and judging by how frustrated these women seem to tell me they are, it's a self-perpetuating situation, in which they define their success by how little they have to invest.
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Post by bballgirl on Mar 24, 2017 9:25:30 GMT -5
Separated in my mid-40s and have dated quite a bit (living in a metropolitan city) for 3 years. I have never felt stigmatized, except sometimes for the close state of separation with my kids' mother. If anything, I've come to stigmatize women who have NOT ever been married, noting a consistent (without a single exception so far) pattern of narcissism among them. Perhaps when you live alone for so long, you lose the ability to intuit how to anticipate or accommodate the needs of people who have other social obligations, like a family or co-parent, or a smaller dating window. Or perhaps they are just in such high demand that they can afford to be as picky as they want to be. The result is the same though, and judging by how frustrated these women seem to tell me they are, it's a self-perpetuating situation, in which they define their success by how little they have to invest. I agree with the Never been married theory. I went out with a couple of men that were never married and have decided not to go down that road ever again. It's a dead end because they are so self absorbed and do not know how to share themselves with someone else. They have zero desire for connection just want sex. It's funny in marriage sex was tough to come by. In dating sex is not tough to find but a relationship and connection seems impossible. |
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Post by WindSister on Mar 27, 2017 9:14:32 GMT -5
Separated in my mid-40s and have dated quite a bit (living in a metropolitan city) for 3 years. I have never felt stigmatized, except sometimes for the close state of separation with my kids' mother. If anything, I've come to stigmatize women who have NOT ever been married, noting a consistent (without a single exception so far) pattern of narcissism among them. Perhaps when you live alone for so long, you lose the ability to intuit how to anticipate or accommodate the needs of people who have other social obligations, like a family or co-parent, or a smaller dating window. Or perhaps they are just in such high demand that they can afford to be as picky as they want to be. The result is the same though, and judging by how frustrated these women seem to tell me they are, it's a self-perpetuating situation, in which they define their success by how little they have to invest. I agree with the Never been married theory. I went out with a couple of men that were never married and have decided not to go down that road ever again. It's a dead end because they are so self absorbed and do not know how to share themselves with someone else. They have zero desire for connection just want sex. It's funny in marriage sex was tough to come by. In dating sex is not tough to find but a relationship and connection seems impossible. This is fascinating to me and I agree with this theory as well. I have great friends who complain all the time they can't find a decent man (their words) but yet I see them nit-pick and put down everyone as they seek that perfection (that does not exist). I am not suggesting settling is wise or one should ignore red flags, but how many awesome men do they pass by as they look for the one that checks off every little thing on their checklists? My checklist wasn't specific things, more of how I want to be treated, and what I want in a relationship. I knew I preferred a blue-collar man who is also worldly over the office-types but even at that, I allowed myself to meet a lot of different types of men. Are there allowances I give my husband's "imperfections?" Of course!! (and vice versa!) But these single friends just seem to think every little thing has to be 100% perfect or they bail. Then they claim they are just too picky to settle - as if everyone else in a relationship is "settling." It takes real strength to be in a committed relationship. It's a skill to learn how to live with someone and share your life with them; to know when to fight, hold on, back off, quiet your own ego, lift another up, sacrifice, compromise. For someone to be in their forties/fifties and never had anything longer than a few years? That was a turn off for me, as well. Big red flag! Those types definitely seemed to be lacking in the maturity department big time (the men I met like that anyway). |
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 27, 2017 10:56:38 GMT -5
I agree with the Never been married theory. I went out with a couple of men that were never married and have decided not to go down that road ever again. It's a dead end because they are so self absorbed and do not know how to share themselves with someone else. They have zero desire for connection just want sex. It's funny in marriage sex was tough to come by. In dating sex is not tough to find but a relationship and connection seems impossible. This is fascinating to me and I agree with this theory as well. I have great friends who complain all the time they can't find a decent man (their words) but yet I see them nit-pick and put down everyone as they seek that perfection (that does not exist). I am not suggesting settling is wise or one should ignore red flags, but how many awesome men do they pass by as they look for the one that checks off every little thing on their checklists? My checklist wasn't specific things, more of how I want to be treated, and what I want in a relationship. I knew I preferred a blue-collar man who is also worldly over the office-types but even at that, I allowed myself to meet a lot of different types of men. Are there allowances I give my husband's "imperfections?" Of course!! (and vice versa!) But these single friends just seem to think every little thing has to be 100% perfect or they bail. Then they claim they are just too picky to settle - as if everyone else in a relationship is "settling." It takes real strength to be in a committed relationship. It's a skill to learn how to live with someone and share your life with them; to know when to fight, hold on, back off, quiet your own ego, lift another up, sacrifice, compromise. For someone to be in their forties/fifties and never had anything longer than a few years? That was a turn off for me, as well. Big red flag! Those types definitely seemed to be lacking in the maturity department big time (the men I met like that anyway). Such a great perspective! Your female friends sound like they have a control issue. That "curse" goes all the way back to Adam and Eve "you will desire to CONTROL your husband but he shall rule over you." Next comes the EVEN distribution of submitting. A good marriage, and years of a failed marriage ,teach you that....hopefully. You ladies are asking to be treated respectfully and equally. There's nothing wrong with that. I have HOPE that it is out there. Along with the HOPE that life will be better single as I continue to give and receive from every person I meet. |
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