|
|
Post by baza on Jan 8, 2017 22:13:24 GMT -5
As near as I can recall, about 2002, missus and I arrive at a party. Haven't seen the hosts *Jenny and Max" for a while. We arrive, Jen greets us. "Where's Max ?" - I enquire. "We're getting divorced" Jen advises "he's not here". "Fair enough. Where's the beer ?" - I enquire You heartless man. Your proper response should have been "Mrs Enna and I need a drink." Bastard. Well, I figured that if they were divorcing, there'd be a good reason behind it, and if she (or Max) wanted to talk to me about it, they would. Some time later, as in months later, I did hear Jens story. Some time after that, I heard Max's version. - Incidently, they both reckon they got hosed in the divorce !!!! PS - I would have had to be amazingly pre-cognisent at that time (2002), to have mentioned Ms enna, as it was 7 years prior to us ever meeting !!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Pinkberry on Jan 9, 2017 2:10:26 GMT -5
You heartless man. Your proper response should have been "Mrs Enna and I need a drink." Bastard. Well, I figured that if they were divorcing, there'd be a good reason behind it, and if she (or Max) wanted to talk to me about it, they would. Some time later, as in months later, I did hear Jens story. Some time after that, I heard Max's version. - Incidently, they both reckon they got hosed in the divorce !!!! PS - I would have had to be amazingly pre-cognisent at that time (2002), to have mentioned Ms enna, as it was 7 years prior to us ever meeting !!!! Honestly, both people getting hosed is pretty accurate in most cases. You go from, typically, two incomes and one home to two incomes and two homes. It's a PITA separating everything and just like trading in a car, everybody feels like they are getting the short end of the stick. Plus, you often have to have a relationship with your ex for the sake of the kids and accommodate their schedule no matter how inconvenient, and they yours. Everything about divorce sucks except the FREEDOM! |
|
|
|
Post by Pinkberry on Jan 14, 2017 13:42:55 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinkberry on Jan 14, 2017 13:44:03 GMT -5
I hate the way quotes are always weird in this forum. It's not a deal breaker, but it's 2017. We're not barbarians; we have the technology!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 12:14:42 GMT -5
I think that if a person is worried about the stigma of divorce, he/she may not be quite ready for divorce. But when the level of misery gets to the point where a person doesn't care, the person is definitely ready.
|
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Feb 7, 2017 21:09:54 GMT -5
I think that if a person is worried about the stigma of divorce, he/she may not be quite ready for divorce. But when the level of misery gets to the point where a person doesn't care, the person is definitely ready. I knew I was ready when in the course of a week I had 3 people in real life who told me unsolicited "you're ready" Some truths we must hold to be self evident. |
|
|
|
Post by WindSister on Feb 20, 2017 17:29:36 GMT -5
Definitely not stigmatized. Some "terminology" bugs me (or my ego) though. Being called "the second wife" for instance. My husband's BIL (now also going through a divorce) introduced me to some other family member as my husband's "second wife." My husband jumped in and said, "oh you mean THE wife..." Everyone got kinda flushed and embarrassed as they laughed uncomfortably a bit and we carried on. SO thankful for my husband, he gets it.  I know it's ego but on the same token, words/intentions matter. To say someone is a "first wife" is implying something better than "second." First always wins, does it not? (in most instances) She is the EX-wife, I am THE wife. No firsts, no seconds. I also hate how she will send cards out to the family "From THE .... (My husband's last name)." UM..... her daughters are both married and she is divorced, there is no "The ... Last name" anymore. But, that's just me... I value the last name I share with my husband, I wish she would get married and get a new one. See?? I can have some attitude when it comes to this stuff!!! ha. I am working on it.... keep it all in my own head, anyway, as I don't want to cause trouble. lol |
|
|
|
Post by JMX on Mar 19, 2017 1:18:57 GMT -5
Definitely not stigmatized. Some "terminology" bugs me (or my ego) though. Being called "the second wife" for instance. My husband's BIL (now also going through a divorce) introduced me to some other family member as my husband's "second wife." My husband jumped in and said, "oh you mean THE wife..." Everyone got kinda flushed and embarrassed as they laughed uncomfortably a bit and we carried on. SO thankful for my husband, he gets it. I know it's ego but on the same token, words/intentions matter. To say someone is a "first wife" is implying something better than "second." First always wins, does it not? (in most instances) She is the EX-wife, I am THE wife. No firsts, no seconds. I also hate how she will send cards out to the family "From THE .... (My husband's last name)." UM..... her daughters are both married and she is divorced, there is no "The ... Last name" anymore. But, that's just me... I value the last name I share with my husband, I wish she would get married and get a new one. See?? I can have some attitude when it comes to this stuff!!! ha. I am working on it.... keep it all in my own head, anyway, as I don't want to cause trouble. lol And, in your head is where it should stay, respectfully. I am only commenting because I have seen a couple of comments from you about this very topic - in different aspects and only now re-visited this thread. It is possible that your BIL introduced you as his "second wife" rather clumsily - so that when you were being introduced, one could distinguish you from that "terrible monster" they have been hearing about for years. It's all in how you look at it. Glass half full, yadda, yadda. More importantly - have you ever considered the following (and I can only put it in terms where I, being the first wife, could put them): I am pissed I ever took his name. If we do get divorced - changing my name is really, really challenging. Not only socially, but professionally. Everyone I now know knows me as JMX. Not just JM. Sure, it is just dropping one of the names, the last one - the one people remember! But I would have to do it in a divorce because... How very sad for her! She was the first Mrs. D. Everyone now knows her as the first but NOT the last (which means not the BEST Mrs. D) because she remained alone. She will carry that name with her (her choice for whatever reason) for eternity with another Mrs. D already named - the "important one". The one WITH him. Maybe she does it for her children, maybe she does it for her family. Maybe she does it out of desperation. But she does it nonetheless. She deserves your sincere thanks, not your ire. She molded your current husband into who he is today - compatible with YOU. I could NEVER share a name with #2. I would want to move on, despite what it costs me professionally or (albeit minimally) socially - I'll say it - I am the star in this shit-show. The fact that you cannot appreciate her position one iota (although I admire your honesty) is sincerely, for shit. Stop being a brat. |
|
|
|
Post by WindSister on Mar 20, 2017 9:24:58 GMT -5
Definitely not stigmatized. Some "terminology" bugs me (or my ego) though. Being called "the second wife" for instance. My husband's BIL (now also going through a divorce) introduced me to some other family member as my husband's "second wife." My husband jumped in and said, "oh you mean THE wife..." Everyone got kinda flushed and embarrassed as they laughed uncomfortably a bit and we carried on. SO thankful for my husband, he gets it. I know it's ego but on the same token, words/intentions matter. To say someone is a "first wife" is implying something better than "second." First always wins, does it not? (in most instances) She is the EX-wife, I am THE wife. No firsts, no seconds. I also hate how she will send cards out to the family "From THE .... (My husband's last name)." UM..... her daughters are both married and she is divorced, there is no "The ... Last name" anymore. But, that's just me... I value the last name I share with my husband, I wish she would get married and get a new one. See?? I can have some attitude when it comes to this stuff!!! ha. I am working on it.... keep it all in my own head, anyway, as I don't want to cause trouble. lol And, in your head is where it should stay, respectfully. I am only commenting because I have seen a couple of comments from you about this very topic - in different aspects and only now re-visited this thread. It is possible that your BIL introduced you as his "second wife" rather clumsily - so that when you were being introduced, one could distinguish you from that "terrible monster" they have been hearing about for years. It's all in how you look at it. Glass half full, yadda, yadda. More importantly - have you ever considered the following (and I can only put it in terms where I, being the first wife, could put them): I am pissed I ever took his name. If we do get divorced - changing my name is really, really challenging. Not only socially, but professionally. Everyone I now know knows me as JMX. Not just JM. Sure, it is just dropping one of the names, the last one - the one people remember! But I would have to do it in a divorce because... How very sad for her! She was the first Mrs. D. Everyone now knows her as the first but NOT the last (which means not the BEST Mrs. D) because she remained alone. She will carry that name with her (her choice for whatever reason) for eternity with another Mrs. D already named - the "important one". The one WITH him. Maybe she does it for her children, maybe she does it for her family. Maybe she does it out of desperation. But she does it nonetheless. She deserves your sincere thanks, not your ire. She molded your current husband into who he is today - compatible with YOU. I could NEVER share a name with #2. I would want to move on, despite what it costs me professionally or (albeit minimally) socially - I'll say it - I am the star in this shit-show. The fact that you cannot appreciate her position one iota (although I admire your honesty) is sincerely, for shit. Stop being a brat. A brat in my own head, for sure. But I actually made tremendous strides when it comes to all of this in just the last few weeks. I have no problem being honest because I think most people put on a big show while struggling with very similar things on the inside (just afraid to ever say it for fear of being judged.. er.... "a brat." It does not make one "a brat" to have real emotions/feelings. Feeling jealousy is human, not a charactestic that makes one "a brat." What WOULD make one a brat is if I put on a big ass show, stomped, screamed, refused to be in the same room with her, make her kids feel guilty for things, ask his family to stop talking to her, etc. All things I never have done, never will do. How a person RESPONDS is what makes someone exhibiting brat-like behaviors or not. I CHOOSE to respond with a smile no matter what I am fighting on the inside (human emotions that everyone has in some ways or another). I feel you are being defensive because you relate to her as the first and that's totally understandable. I get that a lot from divorced women when I try to share my side of things. Maybe you are the star of your show - well, we all think we are the star, don't we? You don't know the work I did. How the day before we got married I fixed all the pictures in the scrapbook he had from his grandmother where I once turned all pictures with her in it upside down. I fixed them all and swore I would respect her place in his history and this family as the mother of his kids. Is that brat-like behavior? I never told anyone because it was my own inner fight/battle and victory. Doing that little act didn't take away ALL the inner stuff I had to work through, but it was a huge step. I vowed that because I wanted a good relationship with his kids and new I had to never let my own inner insecurities come out and wreck havoc. Well, just recently she and I had a great conversation, actually. And suddenly, now, all my insecurities and jealousies are GONE. I genuinely do NOT feel them anymore. I don't care if I share a name with her till the end of time.... she is likely doing it because her daughters are still "that last name" to her and also because she doesn't believe in marriage anymore (which to me says she didn't do the inner work on herself at all because it's not "marriage's" fault that they didn't work out, but who cares - she can do what she wants). And just one more word -- "shame" is never a good motivator to change. Shame actually causes people to curl up and give in. Admitting I have real feelings/emotions to work through does not make ME a brat. The emotions/feelings MAY be "brat-like" but *I* am not a "brat" for experiencing them. It's something one learns from the Four Horsemen of the Marriage Apocalypse. Criticize the behavior, not the person. I criticized and analyzed my emotions from the start - thus, I have allowed growth and change. www.acouplesplace.com/Gottmans_Four_Horsemen_are_Divorce_Predictors.htmlGood luck to you on your journey! |
|
|
|
Post by WindSister on Mar 20, 2017 9:30:40 GMT -5
.. and if I got defensive, it is because I was called a brat.. kinda sets one in that particular direction. Good reminder of my past with my ex. Ick!! My current husband never once called me jealous. He admits I have had jealous feelings to work through, but never demeaned me by calling me "jealous" --- or.. "a brat." Name calling isn't particularly effective.
|
|
|
|
Post by WindSister on Mar 20, 2017 10:28:51 GMT -5
She deserves your sincere thanks, not your ire. She molded your current husband into who he is today - compatible with YOU. Sorry -- as I went on with work this comment rattled in my mind. It's simply not true. She didn't "mold" my husband anymore than I molded my ex or he molded me. Maybe it's just a play on words - but for me this statement just does not work. He is compatible with me because of who he is and who I am, she's not getting credit for that, sorry. I don't need credit for how my ex turned out, that's kinda narcissistic if you ask me. Like I said, I am at a good place and I am thankful they split (most definitely!!). But the way he turned out was because of choices HE has made. Yes, our experiences lead us to where we are, but exes don't get credit for how we turn out (for the good or the bad), that's all on us. |
|
|
|
Post by JMX on Mar 23, 2017 6:51:14 GMT -5
WindSister - The use of the word "brat" was strong and I am sorry for that. It was meant in situational terms and not in general - I do tend to be rather blunt. I do recognize that this is a place to really talk about your feelings that you wouldn't necessarily speak out loud. I was just challenging those thoughts! I am glad you feel better about it and had a great talk with her. I simply cannot understand your feelings about being a second wife and that making you feel inferior. I have tried - I have - but it doesn't make sense to me. As for "molding" - each person (single, married, dating, old, young) has experienced events throughout their life where those experiences change their world view. For example - when I was 7, I decided it was a good idea to do gymnastics in my hilly front yard. I broke my arm. I never did gymnastics on anything but a flat surface again. That experience molded me into a person that didn't do "that dumb thing" ever again. No matter if I had to do the self work to change that behavior, it wouldn't have changed without the consequence. Surely, a husband out of a failed marriage has learned a thing or two and conducts himself accordingly? He most likely didn't do the self-work in a vacuum. Just a thought!
|
|
|
|
Post by eternaloptimism on Mar 23, 2017 7:14:11 GMT -5
WindSister - The use of the word "brat" was strong and I am sorry for that. It was meant in situational terms and not in general - I do tend to be rather blunt. I do recognize that this is a place to really talk about your feelings that you wouldn't necessarily speak out loud. I was just challenging those thoughts! I am glad you feel better about it and had a great talk with her. I simply cannot understand your feelings about being a second wife and that making you feel inferior. I have tried - I have - but it doesn't make sense to me. As for "molding" - each person (single, married, dating, old, young) has experienced events throughout their life where those experiences change their world view. For example - when I was 7, I decided it was a good idea to do gymnastics in my hilly front yard. I broke my arm. I never did gymnastics on anything but a flat surface again. That experience molded me into a person that didn't do "that dumb thing" ever again. No matter if I had to do the self work to change that behavior, it wouldn't have changed without the consequence. Surely, a husband out of a failed marriage has learned a thing or two and conducts himself accordingly? He most likely didn't do the self-work in a vacuum. Just a thought! I learned to land a backflip on a beam with my feet together after my gymnastic incident!! coccyx never been the same! in fact , both my babies got their heads stuck against its bent end on their way out! |
|
|
|
Post by WindSister on Mar 23, 2017 8:39:35 GMT -5
WindSister - The use of the word "brat" was strong and I am sorry for that. It was meant in situational terms and not in general - I do tend to be rather blunt. I do recognize that this is a place to really talk about your feelings that you wouldn't necessarily speak out loud. I was just challenging those thoughts! I am glad you feel better about it and had a great talk with her. I simply cannot understand your feelings about being a second wife and that making you feel inferior. I have tried - I have - but it doesn't make sense to me. As for "molding" - each person (single, married, dating, old, young) has experienced events throughout their life where those experiences change their world view. For example - when I was 7, I decided it was a good idea to do gymnastics in my hilly front yard. I broke my arm. I never did gymnastics on anything but a flat surface again. That experience molded me into a person that didn't do "that dumb thing" ever again. No matter if I had to do the self work to change that behavior, it wouldn't have changed without the consequence. Surely, a husband out of a failed marriage has learned a thing or two and conducts himself accordingly? He most likely didn't do the self-work in a vacuum. Just a thought! Thanks for this. It may be hard to believe, but I actually overcame that very thought I shared here and I can't explain why or how but it was literally almost like an overnight thing, "Wow, I don't feel that anymore." I really am now free from it. I really think it was insecurity coupled with grief - she got a life with him that I want - she has memories with him I wish I had. I didn't get kids. I was pretty damn lonely and depressed most of my adult life until I decided to to change things for myself. So I had to go through a process to get past that all and I admit it wasn't always pretty and my thoughts may have been immature - but they were what they were. Now I accept it all, I truly do. I don't feel inferior and I can even talk with her, compliment her, and I don't get freaked out every time a little snippet from the past comes up when we are all together (oldest daughter saying, "remember that Disney trip...."). I was surprised that these things bothered me, but they did. It's the little nuances of divorce and second marriages that come up. I literally used to feel a stab at my chest but now that is gone. I don't feel inferior, but as "the second," to a lot of people I kind of am, or at least I entered the picture too late to bond. Nieces, nephews don't really care who I am. The older generation (at least two of them) have called me by her name more than once and can't seem to remember who I am at all. At extended family events SHE is still "the family," where I am just "the new wife no one really knows." And that's fine now, but yes, it has taken me a while to get to a point where I can say that and mean it in my heart. I was just happy when his mom finally took her picture off the fridge and put up ours. Maybe that's immature of me to think, but until you are in this situation, it's easy to judge I think, and not realize how you might be. Seeing your husband with his arm around his ex displayed prominently on the fridge at your mother-in-laws is not a "fun" thing by any stretch. Yes, I understand WHY -- yes I get that is NORMAL for his mom to have been slow to remove that and YES I get it was not a reflection on ME, but it still stung. I still don't think I am a weirdo for having felt that sting. Like Baza says, "time is your friend." That is true in this case as well - it does keep getting better each year but it also takes challenging our thoughts, which is what you were doing - I was doing it too just by getting them out there - but, yeah, the brat part set me off. Thanks for clarifying! |
|
|
|
Post by JMX on Mar 23, 2017 8:59:16 GMT -5
WindSister - that explanation, I can definitely understand! Thank YOU for clarifying. Makes perfect sense. When I think of second wife - I think new, bright and shiny car! If I get divorced, the only stigma I would be upset about (I have said before in this thread - it's not the "being divorced" aspect that bothers me) would be the outward appearance that - if he found someone else (and especially if I did not) - she would be better than me. This would make ME a selfish brat - which I admit, I absolutely can be. And I also would never say this to him, or anyone in public, but will put it here. I freely admit that I would have to sincerely work on being happy for him. It would continue to hurt that the life we built with our kids was no more, that someone else would have a family dinner with MY family and it not include me. That I would have to share holidays with HER. I have a friend going through this now, and it's painful to watch even NOT living it personally. I could imagine those feelings only needing time and, unfortunately, someone else I would be happy with to make them go away. It's not right, but there it is.
|
|
I know it's ego but on the same token, words/intentions matter. To say someone is a "first wife" is implying something better than "second." First always wins, does it not? (in most instances) She is the EX-wife, I am THE wife. No firsts, no seconds. I also hate how she will send cards out to the family "From THE .... (My husband's last name)." UM..... her daughters are both married and she is divorced, there is no "The ... Last name" anymore. But, that's just me... I value the last name I share with my husband, I wish she would get married and get a new one. 
