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Post by JonDoe on Jan 1, 2017 10:07:11 GMT -5
John, Some excellent advice. It gives a concrete illustration of what others have said about getting out of it what you put into it. Sounds like it ain't "show up and a magic want will be waved," but "this person is a referee who can give some advice while you solve the problems between you." Does that kind of sum it up? That is correct, you can't just show up, talk, and leave and expect significant change. It requires a collaborative effort in each session and in the days in between each session, and beyond. However, fixing the marriage cannot be a primary everyday focus, which would quickly become overwhelming. As with most things in life, there needs to be a healthy balance. Fixing the marriage has to have a higher priory than clearing out the attic or cleaning the garage though. I guess a combination of mediator, agent, referee, coach and trainer. They are an agent for your marriage, not representing any one side. Not allowing any secretive back-channel communication. They should be guiding the conversation towards resolution, if possible. They should be giving you the training and tools, and weekly homework assignments. They should follow-up and hold each of you accountable if/when one is slacking. They should be well trained listeners capable of hearing and conveying what each spouse is actually saying beyond the words chosen in the heat of the moment. They should be adept at reading and deciphering body language. And they should be working towards teaching each of you to improve these important communication skills as well. To sum it up, a marriage counselor isn't going to come into your life and fix problems like an electrician, plumber, or appliance repairman where you point out the perceived problem, then they expertly find the root cause of the problem, do all the necessary work and give you a bill. It would certainly be nice if it was that easy, but that is certainty not reality. |
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Post by JonDoe on Jan 1, 2017 10:17:41 GMT -5
We tried marriage counseling a few times years ago. It was pointless and an absolute waste of time and money. H was so concerned with coming across as this great guy who would do anything to save his marriage - so concerned with the facade that he didn't actually participate in any meaningful way. This is absolutely key to figure out quickly and put out on the table for focus and discussion. If this is occurring, then point it out immediately and make it the new primary focus until solved, if possible. Neither spouse should be concerned with protecting their image in front of the counselor. We all have strengths and weaknesses, and make plenty of mistakes. The key is to focus opening up communication as well as improving our strengths and reducing our weaknesses individually and as a married couple. |
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Post by lyn on Jan 1, 2017 10:25:26 GMT -5
We tried marriage counseling a few times years ago. It was pointless and an absolute waste of time and money. H was so concerned with coming across as this great guy who would do anything to save his marriage - so concerned with the facade that he didn't actually participate in any meaningful way. This is absolutely key to figure out quickly and put out on the table for focus and discussion. If this is occurring, then point it out immediately and make it the new primary focus until solved, if possible. Neither spouse would be concerned with protecting their image in front of the counselor. We all have strengths and weaknesses, and make plenty of mistakes. The key is to focus opening up communication as well as improving our strengths and reducing our weaknesses individually and as married couple. So true JonDoe. I just don't think I have it in me to try anymore (with respect to working on the marriage with a counselor). Just going to start individual therapy. Lord knows I have plenty to work on |
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 1, 2017 10:54:01 GMT -5
Wow, JonDoe . I can empathize with that experience. Not only is it crushing to hear unfounded fears for safety, but it's a wake-up call if you consider how quickly and easily you (men, in particular) could find yourself behind bars on the back of a false claim. And the very significant lifetime effect of even an unfounded arrest. To say that I was very uneasy for a few weeks would be a major understatement. I couldn't function at work or sleep at night because I was fearful of just such a scenario as you mention. To this day I don't know if my wife ever told her girlfriends that it was a huge mistake on her part or if, with her selective memory, if she recalls it correctly or not. I will say from that day forward it forever changed the dynamics of serious dicussions with my wife. If we are disagreeing on anything, I step away, put my hands in my pockets, and keep my volume low, and the moment she says that she refuses to argue with me, I almost immediately stop talking. Naturally, this became her new go to tool that has given her even more controlling power. My experience was not due to a counselor, but ditto. Seriously freaked out; very "WTF?!". Very nearly moved out just to protect myself. (Never mind that there's never been so much as a loud argument in 25+ years, and she's the one with a 2nd-degree black belt.) |
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Post by JonDoe on Jan 1, 2017 14:26:24 GMT -5
To say that I was very uneasy for a few weeks would be a major understatement. I couldn't function at work or sleep at night because I was fearful of just such a scenario as you mention. To this day I don't know if my wife ever told her girlfriends that it was a huge mistake on her part or if, with her selective memory, if she recalls it correctly or not. I will say from that day forward it forever changed the dynamics of serious dicussions with my wife. If we are disagreeing on anything, I step away, put my hands in my pockets, and keep my volume low, and the moment she says that she refuses to argue with me, I almost immediately stop talking. Naturally, this became her new go to tool that has given her even more controlling power. My experience was not due to a counselor, but ditto. Seriously freaked out; very "WTF?!". Very nearly moved out just to protect myself. (Never mind that there's never been so much as a loud argument in 25+ years, and she's the one with a 2nd-degree black belt.) Yeah, I considered moving out at that point too. In hindsight, I wish now that I had, after all, nine years later and this marriage is only further from being salvageable. The irony is that my wife has pushed me, shoved me, punched me, and thrown things at me in a fit of anger occasionally over the years. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 11:25:00 GMT -5
It seems like many here have been to couples therapy. I was wondering what how much good it does. Thoughts? Pro and con. It depends on the therapist. My suggestion would be to find a sex-positive therapist. The good news is that there are lots of them in the Houston area. You can call them & ask. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 6, 2017 1:26:45 GMT -5
We did about 3 counselors. A total of maybe 3 or 4 years or so.
I think that counselling might have a chance if both parties enter with the intention of investing in the marriage with their partner. The problem is that I don't think most people are honest about their intentions.
Going to counselling, when one isn't committed to the marriage or is hostile to it, ends up just holding up a mirror. In my case, it seemed to become a psychodrama in which my wife enacted or proved to herself what she already thought. I was incredibly surprised at the level of frothy mouthed contempt and hysteria that welled up, and the total lack of investment in the process.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 6, 2017 1:40:25 GMT -5
It seems like many here have been to couples therapy. I was wondering what how much good it does. Thoughts? Pro and con. It depends on the therapist. My suggestion would be to find a sex-positive therapist. The good news is that there are lots of them in the Houston area. You can call them & ask. Can a sex positive therapist increase someone's nonexistent libido? Because in most cases here, that is the problem, at least on the sex front |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 10:11:26 GMT -5
It depends on the therapist. My suggestion would be to find a sex-positive therapist. The good news is that there are lots of them in the Houston area. You can call them & ask. Can a sex positive therapist increase someone's nonexistent libido? Because in most cases here, that is the problem, at least on the sex front Maybe. Sometimes a sex positive therapist can help someone discover a buried libido. Alternatively, sometimes a sex positive therapist can help a person with no libido understand that giving to another person is in the no libido person's best interest thereby increasing sexual motivation. Just my opinion. |
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Post by shamwow on Jan 6, 2017 11:13:48 GMT -5
Can a sex positive therapist increase someone's nonexistent libido? Because in most cases here, that is the problem, at least on the sex front Maybe. Sometimes a sex positive therapist can help someone discover a buried libido. Alternatively, sometimes a sex positive therapist can help a person with no libido understand that giving to another person is in the no libido person's best interest thereby increasing sexual motivation. Just my opinion. I guess the question then is whether or not being motivated to perform a duty is enough as opposed to actual desire. For me it wouldn't since the SM issue has turned into a loveless issue. Once it is loveless it is hard to fake love out of duty. On the other hand maybe it truly is "fake it till you make it" |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 6, 2017 11:32:53 GMT -5
It depends on the therapist. My suggestion would be to find a sex-positive therapist. The good news is that there are lots of them in the Houston area. You can call them & ask. Can a sex positive therapist increase someone's nonexistent libido? Because in most cases here, that is the problem, at least on the sex front I think the bottom line question that I would ask if I were a sex therapist would be: Do you want to want to have sex with your spouse? Do you think you can become that person that can learn to enjoy sex? If there answer was No or I'll try, to question 2 (because they can lie for question 1 and I realize they can lie for question 2) then I hand them the business card to a divorce attorney I get a kick back from. I would love to be a sex therapist for people in a SM, I wouldn't bullshit them past 3 sessions and I would have tv commercials on tv like lawyers do - "Is your marriage struggling? Is your bedroom dead? Sex is a barometer of your marriage and while one of you is happy both of you may not be? Turn it around before it's too late!! I'd come on right after the Cialis commercial. I understand that every situation is different and in most cases it's not about the sex. There is a reason they don't want to have sex with you as well as usually a lot of other dysfunction in the relationship. The bottom line as I have always said: You either like sex or you don't. I wanted sex for twenty years with my ex but he didn't with me. I don't know what kind of freaky ass porn he was into but it's his loss because I am hot and we were just not sexually compatible. Sometimes you just have to cut bait! That would be on my commercial too! |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 6, 2017 12:40:29 GMT -5
I understand that every situation is different and in most cases it's not about the sex. There is a reason they don't want to have sex with you as well as usually a lot of other dysfunction in the relationship. I'm not at all convinced that that is true. I know a number of divorced people that had troubled marriages where the last thing that happened, the final nail in the coffin, was the end of the sex. Most people I know, that started with healthy sex lives, continued to have sex even though the marriage was far from perfect. We here are, in general, very different. The end of sex was usually the first major problem, not the final nail in the coffin. And that is why I always say that people that want to have sex will have sex, even if their spouse is not perfect, even if the marriage is not perfect. Here's an interesting example: a friend of mine tried to leave her husband and over 3 days or so vented about it. She told me that her H was very controlling and they had all kinds of problems. But I will quote her: "The only thing that kept me in the (20 year) marriage was the sex", and she told me that a number of times. The final nail in the coffin for her: her H went on some psyche meds and ended up with ED, which he made no effort to fix. She tried to leave him after only two months of celibacy, which included a very failed (and very sexless) vacation in the Caribbean. More and more I am convinced that most cases where the spouse "isn't good enough to fuck" is a smoke screen for someone that is or has gone asexual, or gray-a. Or they simply did not or at some point fell out of love. And I truly believe that was the case with me. And you too. I know your story and I don't think you ever had a chance. You could never have gotten any blood from that stone you inadvertently married. There are, of course, exceptions, which mostly involve severe abuse but I don't think that is typical here. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 6, 2017 13:12:22 GMT -5
I understand that every situation is different and in most cases it's not about the sex. There is a reason they don't want to have sex with you as well as usually a lot of other dysfunction in the relationship. I'm not at all convinced that that is true. I know a number of divorced people that had troubled marriages where the last thing that happened, the final nail in the coffin, was the end of the sex. Most people I know, that started with healthy sex lives, continued to have sex even though the marriage was far from perfect. We here are, in general, very different. The end of sex was usually the first major problem, not the final nail in the coffin. And that is why I always say that people that want to have sex will have sex, even if their spouse is not perfect, even if the marriage is not perfect. Here's an interesting example: a friend of mine tried to leave her husband and over 3 days or so vented about it. She told me that her H was very controlling and they had all kinds of problems. But I will quote her: "The only thing that kept me in the (20 year) marriage was the sex", and she told me that a number of times. The final nail in the coffin for her: her H went on some psyche meds and ended up with ED, which he made no effort to fix. She tried to leave him after only two months of celibacy, which included a very failed (and very sexless) vacation in the Caribbean. More and more I am convinced that most cases where the spouse "isn't good enough to fuck" is a smoke screen for someone that is or has gone asexual, or gray-a. Or they simply did not or at some point fell out of love. And I truly believe that was the case with me. And you too. I know your story and I don't think you ever had a chance. You could never have gotten any blood from that stone you inadvertently married. There are, of course, exceptions, which mostly involve severe abuse but I don't think that is typical here. I agree with you about the lack of sex first in our scenarios but I guess what I meant by that was that there are some marriages where they get along great but the spouse doesn't like sex or has a medical condition. I think I didn't express that so well because I agree with everything you just said. Sex is the glue that helps you to put up with all the other shit. Guess where my ex was last night?! Yep the casino! Not my problem anymore!! |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 11, 2017 13:34:34 GMT -5
As a 40 something year old actively dating man, I can tell you that the "low libido" problem that figures so prominently in many "stories of our separation" evaoporates once away from the from the partner they don't want to have sex with.
It doesn't necessarily mean their partners are unattractive. It doesn't mean they are bad in the sack. It could mean that marriage feels to be a trap to them - it could mean all kinds of things - but all of them end at "no longer wants to have sex with you."
We get caught up in supporting BS fantasies. I realized my own complicity in supporting my wife's when we were folding laundry a week after having a discussion to separate. I asked, "So now that you no longer ever have to have sex again, do you feel relieved?" I saw her thought bubble at that instant, and she saw me seeing her, and smiled awkwardly - embarrassed that we both knew she was now thinking about all kinds of sex. At least she was honest with herself and with me in copping to it the next day.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 11, 2017 15:51:47 GMT -5
As a 40 something year old actively dating man, I can tell you that the "low libido" problem that figures so prominently in many "stories of our separation" evaoporates once away from the from the partner they don't want to have sex with. It doesn't necessarily mean their partners are unattractive. It doesn't mean they are bad in the sack. It could mean that marriage feels to be a trap to them - it could mean all kinds of things - but all of them end at "no longer wants to have sex with you." We get caught up in supporting BS fantasies. I realized my own complicity in supporting my wife's when we were folding laundry a week after having a discussion to separate. I asked, "So now that you no longer ever have to have sex again, do you feel relieved?" I saw her thought bubble at that instant, and she saw me seeing her, and smiled awkwardly - embarrassed that we both knew she was now thinking about all kinds of sex. At least she was honest with herself and with me in copping to it the next day. Very interesting insight. |
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