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Post by shamwow on Dec 31, 2016 17:53:16 GMT -5
shamwow, you need another choice. Maybe something along the lines of "has therapy helped you?" There is definitely a middle ground between salvation and crap. I've been in couples therapy since last March. 21ish months. Average 3 times a month. A lot of money. A lot of time. No "marriage is saved" moment. But it has been worth it. And not in the way I expected going in. Within the first few weeks, I realized two things. 1) That I had no idea what the reality of my wife's situation truly was. 2) That the therapist understood me. Understood my wife. And was able to translate our communication in a way that never happened even when we were happy. I have no idea if I will stay married. If I do, I think this type of therapy will always be a part of what we do. If not, I am glad that we did it. The perspective and understanding has been invaluable. Excellent point. I wish could go back and add that option. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 1, 2017 0:26:21 GMT -5
I did one session one time, at the end the therapist told my H to get an attorney.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 1, 2017 0:55:40 GMT -5
I did one session one time, at the end the therapist told my H to get an attorney. Damn... Got a transcript? |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 1, 2017 1:08:19 GMT -5
I did one session one time, at the end the therapist told my H to get an attorney. Damn... Got a transcript? I don't have a transcript but the talking points were: I don't want to be your wife anymore it feels like prison. I can be your friend and co parent but that's it. H then asked if I could be his mistress? (Crazy) To which I answered - well in order to do that I would still have to divorce you. I continued with anecdotal evidence going back to year one of marriage. Hardly any sex on the honeymoon, him cheating, the SM, we aren't compatible and he forgot my bday that year. My analogy was you can kick the dog in the head so many times eventually the dog will not come back. Oh and I said that sex with him seemed like incest at this point. Those are the highlights! |
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Post by JonDoe on Jan 1, 2017 1:29:37 GMT -5
The first time we tried marriage counseling, we went for a year. During the first few sessions, I really, really liked this woman, especially since she immediately validated my feelings and complaints regarding lack of sex and the impact of her non-friendly rejections, and put my wife in the hot seat as the root of our problems. She was totally on my side from the get go, and it felt so damn liberating! Then slowly but surely, my wife figured out how to manipulate this woman too. Towards the end, I noticed something wasn't quite right and after some investigative snooping, I found that my wife was emailing this woman several times a week, which was controlling the topics of discussion for the next sesssion. At this point, she always started with my wife and asked me to refrain from speaking out of turn until it my turn to talk, which wasn't until about 10 minutes before the end of the 50 minute session. I tried emailing the counselor a few times, but never received a response or even an acknowledgment in the next session that she had read my email. So in the second to the last session, I spoke up, out of turn, and voiced my concerns. I felt myself getting so overwhelmed emotionally after spending a year in marriage counseling with little to no upside, that I excused myself and walked several miles home on a very cold and dark night.
Later that night, I noticed that my wife took her purse and cell phone and locked herself in the guest room, which was something she had never done previously. I looked at her phone in the morning, and noticed that several girlfriends had been texting her at all hours throughout the night asking if she was ok. When I asked why the next morning, she reluctantly confessed that the counselor instructed her to do this for her saftey. Somehow, after 16 years of marriage, two years of dating, and two children, my wife allowed the counselor to convince her that I had a very high likelihood of being physically violent that night. WTF? Anyone that knows me, knows that I am not a violent person, ever. Am I capable of it to defend the life or limb of myself or a loved one? Sure! But to enact violence on a woman, any woman, especially one that I loved very much, the mother of my children? No fucking way!
The next session was the last, it was very brief, I did all of the talking, and I refused to pay. I simply expressed that I felt it was only right to fire her in person and let her know what a colossal mistake she made the week before. She apologized profusely, but I let her know that she had crossed a line and there was no turning back for me.
The first few sessions with this counselor started on a very high note for me personally and ended at the complete opposite end of the spectrum about $12,000 later.
The second time we went to marriage counseling, the female counselor seemed more interested in girl chat and refused to discuss the elephant in the room, lack of physical and emotional intimacy, not to mention the patterns of broken communication. She consistently ended the sessions way to early also because she had so much trouble processing payment and scheduling the next appointment.
Another colossal waste of time and money. A total of about $20,000 wasted on marriage counseling that in hindsight would have been much more fruitful as a down payment on a good divorce lawyer.
Let me say this in closing, marriage counseling is only as good as the weakest link or most divisive participant. Both spouses need to collaborate with each other and a well trained marriage counselor, otherwise, the most likely outcome is giving away hard earned cash. YMMV!
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 1, 2017 3:06:26 GMT -5
Wow, JonDoe. I can empathize with that experience. Not only is it crushing to hear unfounded fears for safety, but it's a wake-up call if you consider how quickly and easily you (men, in particular) could find yourself behind bars on the back of a false claim. And the very significant lifetime effect of even an unfounded arrest. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 1, 2017 4:13:23 GMT -5
Bloody hell JonDoe. I'm speechless! |
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Post by shamwow on Jan 1, 2017 8:07:01 GMT -5
Damn... Got a transcript? I don't have a transcript but the talking points were: I don't want to be your wife anymore it feels like prison. I can be your friend and co parent but that's it. H then asked if I could be his mistress? (Crazy) To which I answered - well in order to do that I would still have to divorce you. I continued with anecdotal evidence going back to year one of marriage. Hardly any sex on the honeymoon, him cheating, the SM, we aren't compatible and he forgot my bday that year. My analogy was you can kick the dog in the head so many times eventually the dog will not come back. Oh and I said that sex with him seemed like incest at this point. Those are the highlights! Well, that would do it.... Lol |
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Post by JonDoe on Jan 1, 2017 8:10:52 GMT -5
Wow, JonDoe . I can empathize with that experience. Not only is it crushing to hear unfounded fears for safety, but it's a wake-up call if you consider how quickly and easily you (men, in particular) could find yourself behind bars on the back of a false claim. And the very significant lifetime effect of even an unfounded arrest. To say that I was very uneasy for a few weeks would be a major understatement. I couldn't function at work or sleep at night because I was fearful of just such a scenario as you mention. To this day I don't know if my wife ever told her girlfriends that it was a huge mistake on her part or if, with her selective memory, if she recalls it correctly or not. I will say from that day forward it forever changed the dynamics of serious dicussions with my wife. If we are disagreeing on anything, I step away, put my hands in my pockets, and keep my volume low, and the moment she says that she refuses to argue with me, I almost immediately stop talking. Naturally, this became her new go to tool that has given her even more controlling power. |
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Post by shamwow on Jan 1, 2017 8:13:14 GMT -5
Wow JohnDoe!
That's kind of the reason I'm afraid to go in the first place.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 1, 2017 9:02:34 GMT -5
Wow, JonDoe . I can empathize with that experience. Not only is it crushing to hear unfounded fears for safety, but it's a wake-up call if you consider how quickly and easily you (men, in particular) could find yourself behind bars on the back of a false claim. And the very significant lifetime effect of even an unfounded arrest. To say that I was very uneasy for a few weeks would be a major understatement. I couldn't function at work or sleep at night because I was fearful of just such a scenario as you mention. To this day I don't know if my wife ever told her girlfriends that it was a huge mistake on her part or if, with her selective memory, if she recalls it correctly or not. I will say from that day forward it forever changed the dynamics of serious dicussions with my wife. If we are disagreeing on anything, I step away, put my hands in my pockets, and keep my volume low, and the moment she says that she refuses to argue with me, I almost immediately stop talking. Naturally, this became her new go to tool that has given her even more controlling power. Just awful! I hope you get your freedom this year in 2017! You deserve it! That therapist should have lost her license. |
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Post by JonDoe on Jan 1, 2017 9:02:44 GMT -5
Wow JohnDoe! That's kind of the reason I'm afraid to go in the first place. Please let my experience shed light, not close doors. Before going to marriage counseling, I recommend each of you write a list of strengths and weaknesses in your marriage, including things that you would like to see improve, in order of importance, and compare lists. Perhaps try to discuss the top two or three items on each list in alternating sessions, her first one day, then yours on another. Make a commitment to each other that you will each hold the other accountable for remaining committed to being collaborative during the process. Agree on whether the gender of the counselor matters to each of you. For us that was actually an easy one because we both preferred a female counselor. I felt that it would be easier for me to openly express my self emotionally and that my wife would hopefully be more receptive to hearing a female counselor explain how important regular physical intimacy is in marriage, especially when that is one spouse's primary love language. Speaking of love languages, our second marriage counselor had never heard of this term nor was she aware of the books related to this topic. I honestly don't know who she bribed to get her license to practice. She never took notes and there was no fluidity from one session to the next. Each session basically started out as "So how was your week?" and my wife would always tend to give her a synopsis of work and the kids first, which I felt chewed into valuable time to discuss what really needed fixing in our marriage. I also recommend deciding beforehand how many sessions you are both prepared to give any one counselor before cutting bait and finding a new one. Some are really good, most mediocre, and a select few should be telephone solicitors or Walmart greeters. Don't give up because one or two or three counselors didn't work for you. Definitely read their bios first, and consider asking for several recommendations from people willing to speak openly about how the counselor helped them. During the first session you should remember that you are interviewing them, not trying to solve your problems in the first session. I think this is a very important point because naturally everyone wants their story to be heard and their feelings validated, but there is time for that during the next few sessions, after all this is a process. And perhaps just as import, each of you should keep a private journal and add daily entries focusing on both the pros and cons, and any noticeable improvements or negative changes. Try your best to look for the positive as improvements will obviously start as small, almost imperceivable events. And schedule a once a week, 15 minute marriage summit to constructively highlight the week in an unheated exchange, preferably a day or two before your regularly scheduled weekly session. Briefly talk about what went well, what didn't, and what you want to focus on next week. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 9:22:25 GMT -5
FWIW, I deliberately chose a male counselor because I hoped it would make my H more comfortable. In retrospect, I think that was a good idea that just happened to backfire.
There seems to be a pattern of the refused being the one to want and suggest counseling and to go out of their (our) way to make it palatable for the refuser. Maybe that's just another way we are codependent.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 1, 2017 9:34:20 GMT -5
Wow JohnDoe! That's kind of the reason I'm afraid to go in the first place. Please let my experience shed light, not close doors. Before going to marriage counseling, I recommend each of you write a list of strengths and weaknesses in your marriage, including things that you would like to see improve, in order of importance, and compare lists. Perhaps try to discuss the top two or three items on each list in alternating sessions, her first one day, then yours on another. Make a commitment to each other that you will each hold the other accountable for remaining committed to being collaborative during the process. Agree on whether the gender of the counselor matters to each of you. For us that was actually an easy one because we both preferred a female counselor. I felt that it would be easier for me to openly express my self emotionally and that my wife would hopefully be more receptive to hearing a female counselor explain how important regular physical intimacy is in marriage, especially when that is one spouse's primary love language. Speaking of love languages, our second marriage counselor had never heard of this term nor was she aware of the books related to this topic. I honestly don't know who she bribed to get her license to practice. She never took notes and there was no fluidity from one session to the next. Each session basically started out as "So how was your week?" and my wife would always tend to give her a synopsis of work and the kids first, which I felt chewed into valuable time to discuss what really needed fixing in our marriage. I also recommend deciding beforehand how many sessions you are both prepared to give any one counselor before cutting bait and finding a new one. Some are really good, most mediocre, and a select few should be telephone solicitors or Walmart greeters. Don't give up because one or two or three counselors didn't work for you. Definitely read their bios first, and consider asking for several recommendations from people willing to speak openly about how the counselor helped them. During the first session you should remember that you are interviewing them, not trying to solve your problems in the first session. I think this is a very important point because naturally everyone wants their story to be heard and their feelings validated, but there is time for that during the next few sessions, after all this is a process. And perhaps just as import, each of you should keep a private journal and add daily entries focusing on both the pros and cons, and any noticeable improvements or negative changes. Try your best to look for the positive as improvements will obviously start as small, almost imperceivable events. And schedule a once a week, 15 minute marriage summit to constructively highlight the week in an unheated exchange, preferably a day or two before your regularly scheduled weekly session. Briefly talk about what went well, what didn't, and what you want to focus on next week. John, Some excellent advice. It gives a concrete illustration of what others have said about getting out of it what you put into it. Sounds like it ain't "show up and a magic wand will be waved," but "this person is a referee who can give some advice while you solve the problems between you." Does that kind of sum it up? |
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Post by lyn on Jan 1, 2017 10:06:48 GMT -5
Wow JohnDoe! That's kind of the reason I'm afraid to go in the first place. Please let my experience shed light, not close doors. Before going to marriage counseling, I recommend each of you write a list of strengths and weaknesses in your marriage, including things that you would like to see improve, in order of importance, and compare lists. Perhaps try to discuss the top two or three items on each list in alternating sessions, her first one day, then yours on another. Make a commitment to each other that you will each hold the other accountable for remaining committed to being collaborative during the process. Agree on whether the gender of the counselor matters to each of you. For us that was actually an easy one because we both preferred a female counselor. I felt that it would be easier for me to openly express my self emotionally and that my wife would hopefully be more receptive to hearing a female counselor explain how important regular physical intimacy is in marriage, especially when that is one spouse's primary love language. Speaking of love languages, our second marriage counselor had never heard of this term nor was she aware of the books related to this topic. I honestly don't know who she bribed to get her license to practice. She never took notes and there was no fluidity from one session to the next. Each session basically started out as "So how was your week?" and my wife would always tend to give her a synopsis of work and the kids first, which I felt chewed into valuable time to discuss what really needed fixing in our marriage. I also recommend deciding beforehand how many sessions you are both prepared to give any one counselor before cutting bait and finding a new one. Some are really good, most mediocre, and a select few should be telephone solicitors or Walmart greeters. Don't give up because one or two or three counselors didn't work for you. Definitely read their bios first, and consider asking for several recommendations from people willing to speak openly about how the counselor helped them. During the first session you should remember that you are interviewing them, not trying to solve your problems in the first session. I think this is a very important point because naturally everyone wants their story to be heard and their feelings validated, but there is time for that during the next few sessions, after all this is a process. And perhaps just as import, each of you should keep a private journal and add daily entries focusing on both the pros and cons, and any noticeable improvements or negative changes. Try your best to look for the positive as improvements will obviously start as small, almost imperceivable events. And schedule a once a week, 15 minute marriage summit to constructively highlight the week in an unheated exchange, preferably a day or two before your regularly scheduled weekly session. Briefly talk about what went well, what didn't, and what you want to focus on next week. Really valuable insight here JonDoe. Geez I'm sorry you had to deal with all of that - what a cluster-fuck that 1st situation turned into. That's scary that you have to /had to worry about being accused of violence that doesn't exist. Do you think your W was setting you up? Setting you up for what I'm not sure, but it just seems so calculated. We tried marriage counseling a few times years ago. It was pointless and an absolute waste of time and money. H was so concerned with coming across as this great guy who would do anything to save his marriage - so concerned with the facade that he didn't actually participate in any meaningful way. Anyway, your W has really missed the boat it seems. I can't imagine what it would be like to be married to a man who actually gives a shit. |
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