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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 30, 2016 23:06:59 GMT -5
shamwow , +1 to all the comments thus far. Individual therapy is a stellar idea for self-awareness, maybe with a guest appearance by W to give the counselor some first-hand context for your own therapy. Therapy (whether joint or solo) will benefit the participants to the extent of their participation. Alternately, you can use joint sessions as a way to ease into a divorce with less hostility. Let me extend this a little more. A therapist can and will also ask " how are the kids handling this"., and will want to meet with them. A child councilor can give them and the parents helpful advice leading to, and going through the divorce. That's an upcoming process for our family. |
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Post by shamwow on Dec 30, 2016 23:14:08 GMT -5
shamwow, +1 to all the comments thus far. Individual therapy is a stellar idea for self-awareness, maybe with a guest appearance by W to give the counselor some first-hand context for your own therapy. Therapy (whether joint or solo) will benefit the participants to the extent of their participation. Alternately, you can use joint sessions as a way to ease into a divorce with less hostility. I actually believe she will attend even if it's for the same reason as I: Not attending makes her the public bad guy. My position is that I am not right about everything but I'm also not WRONG about everything either. I don't know that she will be able to say the same, and that is when the fireworks begin. |
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Post by Dan on Dec 30, 2016 23:52:05 GMT -5
Marriage therapy always "works"... as long as you don't define "works" as simply "the marriage becomes blissful".
It may succeed in showing you your partner has different goals in the marriage than you do. It may confirm your hunches that "yeah, he/she really IS off-base on that point". It may show you that your spouse has no interest in changing even once you've made it clear what is required to keep the marriage together.
Or it may simply ease your conscience that "at least you tried that"... so that when you are ready for divorce, it will not be a regret that you didn't try everything you could think of.
Marriage therapy has "worked" for me in all those ways... so, *some* comfort there.
Now, for real progress on emotional issues (or when really in distress), PLEASE consider individual therapy. (Before, during, and after marital therapy.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 0:00:35 GMT -5
I went for a total of 6 years. First 3 with my wife until she gave up in frustration and then off and on in 3 to 6 month stretches for another 3 years by myself. It took 3 years to figure out that Sex Therapists are useless when it comes to sexual difficulties caused by childhood abuse as they only concentrate on treating the symptoms not the causes. It's called Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and they all practice it. Marital Therapists were worse. It wasn't until I finally found a psychiatrist that I began to get an inkling as to what was going on and why. No cure, but at least my own theories as to why all my longer term relationships became sexless were finally put to rest. If I had to count it up I'd say I spent close to $20,000.00 on therapy over the years and since nothing has really changed I'd say yes it is a waste of time and money.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 31, 2016 0:53:58 GMT -5
I actually believe she will attend even if it's for the same reason as I: Not attending makes her the public bad guy. My position is that I am not right about everything but I'm also not WRONG about everything either. I don't know that she will be able to say the same, and that is when the fireworks begin. Attendance isn't participation. Participation means genuinely engaging in the process: contributing to the inputs and acting on the outputs. Being open to changing the way you see / interpret / react to things. |
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Post by shamwow on Dec 31, 2016 1:13:22 GMT -5
I actually believe she will attend even if it's for the same reason as I: Not attending makes her the public bad guy. My position is that I am not right about everything but I'm also not WRONG about everything either. I don't know that she will be able to say the same, and that is when the fireworks begin. Attendance isn't participation. Participation means genuinely engaging in the process: contributing to the inputs and acting on the outputs. Being open to changing the way you see / interpret / react to things. I have a feeling that attendance is probably an area where my wife and I agree. After almost 20 years of this shit and my lack of faith that any promises made wouldbe kept, I can't say I would even want it to succeed. But both of us want the aappearanceof a good faith effort. It might be a shitty view on my part but it is the truth like it or not |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 31, 2016 1:20:06 GMT -5
shamwow, at least you're in tune with your motivations, and have a realistic expectation for the outcome.
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Post by shamwow on Dec 31, 2016 1:23:31 GMT -5
shamwow, at least you're in tune with your motivations, and have a realistic expectation for the outcome. Realistic or not, those kinds of shitty calculations are not the kind of man I want to be. Yet another way my SM shithole has changed me for the worse. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 31, 2016 1:40:26 GMT -5
shamwow, I sympathize. But better to acknowledge your reality and work with it (or try to change it), than pretend it doesn't exist simply because it doesn't conform to your desired view. Or, you could have the blunt but honest conversation with your wife... "I don't think either one of us is motivated to give couples counseling a serious go. Are we wasting our time and money?"
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Post by jim44444 on Dec 31, 2016 7:31:39 GMT -5
shamwow , I sympathize. But better to acknowledge your reality and work with it (or try to change it), than pretend it doesn't exist simply because it doesn't conform to your desired view. Or, you could have the blunt but honest conversation with your wife... "I don't think either one of us is motivated to give couples counseling a serious go. Are we wasting our time and money?" If we could have bluntbut honest conversations with our spouse then we would not need the counseling. |
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Post by nancyb on Dec 31, 2016 7:46:33 GMT -5
shamwow , I sympathize. But better to acknowledge your reality and work with it (or try to change it), than pretend it doesn't exist simply because it doesn't conform to your desired view. Or, you could have the blunt but honest conversation with your wife... "I don't think either one of us is motivated to give couples counseling a serious go. Are we wasting our time and money?" If we could have bluntbut honest conversations with our spouse then we would not need the counseling. Well said. |
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Post by unmatched on Dec 31, 2016 10:24:34 GMT -5
One thing I am hearing consistently is that if the other side isn't committed it won't work. What if it is just me who has nothing left in the gas tank. I don't expect reconciliation but I do want to understand why. Also the thing people ask me when I discuss my SM is if we have been to counseling. I have a feeling that if I go to counseling I will hear the same shit again and she will kick the can down the road... Again. If we go to counseling though I can check that box off. I don't plan on counseling until I've done my lawyer shopping, though. A bit Machiavellian? I think the question is also 'What are you committed to?' If you go into counselling thinking you are committed to saving the relationship at all costs, then you are setting yourself up for failure anyway. If you go in thinking what you really want is to understand what you feel and why, and what your wife feels and why, and to explore whether it is a good thing for the two of you to spend another decade or two together or whether you would be better served doing it on your own or with somebody else, then your options for success are massively improved. And if you both get to understand each other that much better and still decide to split, it is unlikely to hurt your chances of making that an amicable process. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 31, 2016 10:50:47 GMT -5
My experience: if your spouse is averse to sex and intimacy then a therapist will not change that. Therapy will delay an exit from the marriage, as we are seeing here in at least one case. And therapy might even make the refused slightly less miserable with their sexless misery, for a time at least.
There may be cases where it is useful. For me it was not. My STBX's assessment of therapy: all I wanted to talk about was sex. Of course, it was me who was ready to leave my always sexless marriage, therefore precipitating the therapy. But apparently I wasn't permitted to talk about my problem or my needs. And the therapists agreed, insisting we spend the better part of a year of therapy talking about her problems, in order to make her want to fuck me. When we finally got to talking about sex, after talking about her issues for a year, that was the last session she wanted to attend. Therapy can't solve that attitude. You can't argue or reason your way into a good sex life. You can't coerce your way in, or threaten your way in. You can't make someone love you that way. I don't think you can hire a therapist to accomplish that either.
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Post by beachguy on Dec 31, 2016 11:01:01 GMT -5
One thing I am hearing consistently is that if the other side isn't committed it won't work. What if it is just me who has nothing left in the gas tank. I don't expect reconciliation but I do want to understand why. Also the thing people ask me when I discuss my SM is if we have been to counseling. I have a feeling that if I go to counseling I will hear the same shit again and she will kick the can down the road... Again. If we go to counseling though I can check that box off. I don't plan on counseling until I've done my lawyer shopping, though. A bit Machiavellian? No, not Machiavellian. It will allow you to stand your ground during counseling. You can go in there and say "celibacy is not an option" (or whatever your primary issues are) and mean it. And back it up. |
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Post by dancingbear70 on Dec 31, 2016 17:07:11 GMT -5
shamwow, you need another choice. Maybe something along the lines of "has therapy helped you?" There is definitely a middle ground between salvation and crap. I've been in couples therapy since last March. 21ish months. Average 3 times a month. A lot of money. A lot of time. No "marriage is saved" moment. But it has been worth it. And not in the way I expected going in. Within the first few weeks, I realized two things. 1) That I had no idea what the reality of my wife's situation truly was. 2) That the therapist understood me. Understood my wife. And was able to translate our communication in a way that never happened even when we were happy. I have no idea if I will stay married. If I do, I think this type of therapy will always be a part of what we do. If not, I am glad that we did it. The perspective and understanding has been invaluable.
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