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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 18:07:17 GMT -5
Wow, what a story, petrushka! I'm so sorry that she dragged you on for a year like that. I will never understand that. I feel like if I tried to do stuff with my husband, he'd join in, but emotionally? I'm not sure I could even do that at this point. I'm so fearful of rejection and it going badly that it stops me, even if I feel any sort of desire for him.
The deadline is now. You are right. I feel like I've been here so many times before with the talks, the promises, the "in the futures," and it can't go on forever. I'm not sure what I'm waiting for. I guess for him to finally do what he says he "feels" and what he says he will do. It won't happen. Rationally, I know this. I think I need to process it further.
My thinking is definitely coming down to the wire though - we are making a HUGE change, one way or another, and I've flat out told him that. He knows this is for real. I'll pay attention to the "reset" too, although that's never really happened before. He does the "reset" without sex, but by being a bit more touchy, nice, doing things for me, etc. It definitely hooks me for a while longer. Sigh..
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Post by callisto on Dec 1, 2016 18:13:16 GMT -5
Yeah you are right again, beachguy. It sure seems simple to me, especially if the attraction is there. Sadly, I do think he does love me, but I'm not sure he knows what intimacy is, at least sexually. He claims that it was so good in the beginning because I kept things going and he could tell I wanted to do it, and that now, that's not the case. He said he feeds off other people and he can tell that I'm not into it now. Sigh. He didn't make it to the wedding. I'm chasing this because ugh, there is good about him. I know it's probably not at all clear here, but he's a sweet guy. He'll do anything for you, is sweet, funny, etc. I know that sounds so trivial, but it's hard to imagine him not being around. I am working through this, because before, I never even thought about the possibility. I'm still making progress. And yes, he is a lot of talk and no action - I'm sure he was that way with the exes too.. [ Your husband sounds like a younger blue print of mine... Extraordinarily similar description you give! Sorry, that doesn't help to say! |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 1, 2016 18:16:29 GMT -5
After an idle thought, I have a question for Joy:
If, hypothetically, your H told you tonight that he was gay, would that affect your current decision/thinking to leave or stay?
I have a specific reason for asking but I'll withhold that until I get your thoughts.
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 18:18:53 GMT -5
Awwww, I'm sorry, callisto! It's a tough position to be in. A part of me really wishes he was worse..  |
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Post by petrushka on Dec 1, 2016 18:19:02 GMT -5
Wow, thank you for the amazing response, beachguy! I'm sorry that your wife deceived you in that way. I can relate in a lot of ways. We slowly went downhill before the wedidng too, literally the NIGHT of our engagement, I felt something shift. He denies it, but I felt it, and the frequency/passion never really seemed the same. Of course, it was on a MUCH smaller scale than it is now. Bing bing bing [alarm goes off and the red light starts flashing]. Now THIS is a recognizable pattern. We have SO many people state "it stopped on the wedding night". There seems to be a type of person for whom the way they see the relationship undergoes a paradigm shift the moment they "have" their partner. They go from wooing and courting to "ancient couple housekeeping mode" in a flash. They stop seeing you as a desirable sexual partner and see you as someone who [fill in the blanks] does the cooking and cleaning/supplies the income/takes care of the kids/walks the dog/washes the car/changes lightbulbs and tap washers/ .......... they take you for granted, and they see you as a 'service' or at least as someone who performs service services .. It's unbelievable but for some people this happens just in minutes. Snap - the switch gets thrown. It's how they were brought up, or it's the movie in their head of how a relationship should play out, or something ... personally I stand baffled by what I see as 'alien' behaviour, but observation says: this is real. And to replay Jim's statement: The "why" does not matter. It does not matter jack shit. Because it is what it is. The thing that you have to live with, to deal with, to cope with is how it affects your life. Once something makes my life so unpleasant that I don't want to go on living like that, then I walk away from the factor that is making it so, regardless. Self preservation always has to come first - if you are sane. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 18:20:33 GMT -5
beachguy - Yes, definitely. I would be done and it would be an easy out. I would absolutely support him and be happy that he could come out, but it would be clear that we were over. Anxious to hear your reasoning here!
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 18:23:09 GMT -5
You're right, petrushka. It has bothered me since the day it happened almost 7 years ago. I've even brought that up to him and he denies, denies, denies. He says his feelings have only increased. Maybe his platonic friendship feelings have, and he's confusing that with intimate, romantic love. I'm really not sure, but he sure used to act like he loved me more!
The why doesn't matter. It's not working and I have to do something about it. I've talked to him SO many times that I could never even count. I'd say literally hundreds of times probably. It's absurd. And I've told him that I will leave (SEVERAL times) in the past without change. I'm not sure what else I could even do...
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Post by beachguy on Dec 1, 2016 18:42:41 GMT -5
beachguy - Yes, definitely. I would be done and it would be an easy out. I would absolutely support him and be happy that he could come out, but it would be clear that we were over. Anxious to hear your reasoning here! Why? Why would his being gay change anything? I'm very confused now. OK, he's gay. He doesn't like fucking women. But you've known that since your engagement. Nothing changes. In fact, you no longer have to grovel for sex or feel like less of a woman or undesirable or any of the things women here suffer from. You can be totally comfortable in your celibacy knowing it has nothing to do with you, and there is no need to pretend that it's an easy fix he can do tomorrow, or the next day.... He's gay, but he can still be your friend. Know your moods. Laugh at your inside jokes. He is still everything you love about him now. You're concerned you will never find anyone like him again. The fact that he's gay doesn't make it any easier to find a new guy that will be emotionally and sexually bonded to you. You haven't solved any of the problems keeping you married. Nor does his new gayness change a damned thing in your life. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 18:46:32 GMT -5
It would change everything because it wouldn't be my "fault" that things ended, nor could he put it on me. Also, it would give a truly real explanation as to why this happened.
I get that nothing changes on paper, but he's not gay (or hasn't come out and probably never will if that is the case), so it's hard to think of that hypothetically. I think I would be relieved though. Without that, it just looks like I'm walking out on a good person..
Plus, he's made it clear that he has no interest or ability in being friends if we split. He said it would be too hard and he'd have too many feelings for me.
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Post by callisto on Dec 1, 2016 18:52:00 GMT -5
Awwww, I'm sorry, callisto! It's a tough position to be in. A part of me really wishes he was worse.. Haha - I know that one too! Doesn't seem to make it any easier to leave whether your refuser is lovely, detestable, old, young, gay, straight, , healthy, married, living tog, rich or poor ..... And it is the weirdest thing- someone should do a study of SM's to find out why it is so hard to leave even when we know what we know. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Dec 1, 2016 18:52:57 GMT -5
It would change everything because it wouldn't be my "fault" that things ended, nor could he put it on me. Also, it would give a truly real explanation as to why this happened. I get that nothing changes on paper, but he's not gay (or hasn't come out and probably never will if that is the case), so it's hard to think of that hypothetically. I think I would be relieved though. Without that, it just looks like I'm walking out on a good person.. Plus, he's made it clear that he has no interest or ability in being friends if we split. He said it would be too hard and he'd have too many feelings for me. I feel you there. After i got through the "what's wrong with me" phase, i started beginning to wonder if maybe my wife was asexual- before we dated, she spent 7 years being happily single and celibate, and she very, very, VERY rarely masturbates, and never uses any of the toys I've bought her for that. She says she "misses the sex, " but i don't know that i believe her. I do know, however, when I leave, she'll always pin the blame for the marriage failing on me. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 1, 2016 18:54:18 GMT -5
Wow, thank you for the amazing response, beachguy! I'm sorry that your wife deceived you in that way. I can relate in a lot of ways. We slowly went downhill before the wedidng too, literally the NIGHT of our engagement, I felt something shift. He denies it, but I felt it, and the frequency/passion never really seemed the same. Of course, it was on a MUCH smaller scale than it is now. Bing bing bing [alarm goes off and the red light starts flashing]. Now THIS is a recognizable pattern. We have SO many people state "it stopped on the wedding night". There seems to be a type of person for whom the way they see the relationship undergoes a paradigm shift the moment they "have" their partner. They go from wooing and courting to "ancient couple housekeeping mode" in a flash. They stop seeing you as a desirable sexual partner and see you as someone who [fill in the blanks] does the cooking and cleaning/supplies the income/takes care of the kids/walks the dog/washes the car/changes lightbulbs and tap washers/ .......... they take you for granted, and they see you as a 'service' or at least as someone who performs service services .. It's unbelievable but for some people this happens just in minutes. Snap - the switch gets thrown. It's how they were brought up, or it's the movie in their head of how a relationship should play out, or something ... personally I stand baffled by what I see as 'alien' behaviour, but observation says: this is real. And to replay Jim's statement: The "why" does not matter. It does not matter jack shit. Because it is what it is. The thing that you have to live with, to deal with, to cope with is how it affects your life. Once something makes my life so unpleasant that I don't want to go on living like that, then I walk away from the factor that is making it so, regardless. Self preservation always has to come first - if you are sane. Just for the record here, this is not the first story where the sex fell off a cliff at the time of engagement. It is more commonly the wedding night, but there are engagement stories too. And if I told my story in detail, you would see how the sex and intimacy ratcheted down incrementally at each stage of our relationship: moving in together, the engagement, buying a house jointly (before the wedding). The wedding was just the final cliff. Each of those steps prior to the wedding was an additional level of commitment. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 18:57:19 GMT -5
Yes, I agree, callisto! I wonder why it is so difficult. Probably because it doesn't fit the reasons we deem as "appropriate" for divorce: cheating, abuse, complete indifference, etc. It seems like we should keep trying because it's not THAT bad. Until you can't anymore. At least that's what I think!
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Post by beachguy on Dec 1, 2016 18:58:27 GMT -5
It would change everything because it wouldn't be my "fault" that things ended, nor could he put it on me. Also, it would give a truly real explanation as to why this happened. I get that nothing changes on paper, but he's not gay (or hasn't come out and probably never will if that is the case), so it's hard to think of that hypothetically. I think I would be relieved though. Without that, it just looks like I'm walking out on a good person.. Plus, he's made it clear that he has no interest or ability in being friends if we split. He said it would be too hard and he'd have too many feelings for me. "Without that, it just looks like I'm walking out on a good person." Sorry, you haven't convinced me that his being gay is a good reason. And in my hypothetical, left unsaid is, he comes out gay but he still wants to stay married, and I guess in this hypothetical, if you divorce him for being gay, his feelings about a post divorce friendship won't change. You get to stay married to a gay guy or lose your gay friend. Does that change your mind at all? |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 18:58:56 GMT -5
That's interesting, cagedtiger. I've accused my husband of asexuality too, but he definitely denies it every time. I guess they could just have VERY different drives than us? Mine says he misses it too, but I don't think I believe him either. I don't want to have to beg or be the "guy" in terms of sexuality. Maybe that's awful but just...no!
I'm sorry she'll blame it on you. I think I'd get the same thing. And no one (beyond very close friends) would ever know differently because I wouldn't embarrass him like that, and I doubt he'd admit that kind of thing.
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