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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 14:31:25 GMT -5
As I was talking with someone about sexless marriage they used the the term The "Reasons" my spouse gives me, and it got me thinking. I think the words people use are very telling and I thought, what's the difference between reason and excuse. I plugged it into google and it was interested that it such a widely debated topic.
My thoughts: I would always use "excuse". If we use "reason" then I feel it legitimizes their position. It may be a small detail to many but I believe a lot of sexless marriage is about denial and we are careful to use language and actions to keep us there.
How many of us actually avoid the excuse or comments we get from our spouse when they make them?
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Post by cagedtiger on Nov 30, 2016 15:10:55 GMT -5
An interesting point to make. I've definitely become very, very careful about the language i use ("affection" is as far as I've talked about, until our counseling yesterday), because any stronger language than that, and she either shuts down or dismisses it.
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 30, 2016 15:38:33 GMT -5
To the refuser it's a reason to the refused it's an excuse.
Still boils down to sexual incompatibility.
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Post by wewbwb on Nov 30, 2016 15:47:50 GMT -5
If the cause is "physical" it can be a "reason" - if the cause is "You're tired" it's an excuse.
If the cause is "I don't love you anymore" - it's the truth.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Nov 30, 2016 16:21:45 GMT -5
If the cause is "physical" it can be a "reason" - if the cause is "You're tired" it's an excuse. If the cause is "I don't love you anymore" - it's the truth. Or ever, as the case may be ... |
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Post by Chatter Fox on Nov 30, 2016 16:34:26 GMT -5
To me, for it to be a reason, it must make logical sense. It must make the light bulb appear over my head. It must finally clear the fog of confusion that lurks around me.
For example. "I'm tired" is not a reason in my particular situation. It's an excuse. I make that distinction in my situation because when I apply logic to it, it doesn't hold up. Lots of people are regularly tired. I imagine we could all be tired enough to say no to sex at some point in our lives. I bet I would say no if I were tired enough, but I haven't been given the opportunity to test that theory. I'm not asked to have sex regardless of how tired I am. lol. Here's the thing though. I like sex. I also like sleep. If given the choice between sex and some extra sleep when I'm tired, 9 times out of 10 I'd choose sex. That's just me though. I'm sure we all have our own ratio based on our own relative desires for sex and sleep. If someone pretty much never chooses sex over sleep, well that can only mean one of two things. They either REALLY like sleep or they REALLY don't like sex. ...and there are shades of grey in between. The thing is, I imagine that anyone that likes sex to at least a reasonable degree will not only choose sex over extra sleep occasionally, but will also decide that not getting enough rest is interfering with their sex life and they will make changes to how they sleep in order to ensure that they are saving some energy for sex. They will find a way to fix the problem. They will want sex too so they will be motivated to figure out why their energy level is ruining their sex life. What they won't do is allow being tired to keep them from having sex for a full year.
My wife regularly uses "I'm too tired" as an excuse. She did it when we were newlyweds. We didn't have kids then, she got plenty of sleep, there was no real REASON for her to feel so sleepy. Even these days, she says it on the weekends when she gets 9 or 10 hours of sleep the night before. She says she's tired and fakes the droopy eyes and slumped shoulders when entering the bedroom almost to announce "not tonight!".... even though she seemed rather chipper and energetic just moments before.
"I'm too tired" is an excuse. It's an excuse because that's what logic shows me.
That's just one example. There are many other excuses in her arsenal and not one of them holds up to any kind of logic. Not one of her so called "reasons" are really the reason. They are just ways to get out of it. They excuse her from having to do anything about the problem.
Here's some examples of what I would accept as a reason
1.) She tells me she just doesn't find me sexually appealing
2.) She tells me that she just simply doesn't like sex
3.) She tells me that she's a lesbian
4.) She tells me that she doesn't love me
5.) She tells me that she has some deep psychological sexual hangups and she's too scared to face them
6.) She finds a medical reason for her low libido
All of those make sense. If she told me one of those. That light bulb would appear over my head. The fog would be lifted. I'd get down on my knees and praise jeebus. It would be a REASON. A legitmate freaking REASON. I've yet to hear anything that even resembles a true reason. It's just excuses.
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Post by wewbwb on Nov 30, 2016 16:45:12 GMT -5
Just so that I'm clearly explaining the excuse:
She didn't state that SHE is too tired - she stated that I'M too tired!
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Post by nancyb on Nov 30, 2016 16:50:29 GMT -5
If the cause is "physical" it can be a "reason" - if the cause is "You're tired" it's an excuse. If the cause is "I don't love you anymore" - it's the truth. Well said. |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 30, 2016 17:33:47 GMT -5
She was fucking me right up to the wedding, when she then enforced "monogamy" on me but actually celibacy. There will never be an acceptable reason for that, so as far as I was concerned they were always excuses.
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Post by Chatter Fox on Nov 30, 2016 17:54:19 GMT -5
Just so that I'm clearly explaining the excuse: She didn't state that SHE is too tired - she stated that I'M too tired! Wait a minute... she tells YOU that YOU are too tired? Thats mind blowing. I don't know what the hell to call that. Does she glide her hand in front of you in true "jedi mind trick" fashion? Or pull out a pocket watch and swing it side to side while chanting "you are tooooo tireeeed for seeeeexxx."? |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Nov 30, 2016 18:00:02 GMT -5
Sorry if this has been stated already, but reason vs. excuse might have something to do with how much responsibility one takes for their justification (in my opinion).
In my case, i was aware that there was a problem before the wedding, but her explanation made sense as I knew her background with her previous partner and some of the unfortunate details. She indicated that she was eager to work on this and things would improve. This was a lie compounded with another lie: the explanation she gave was not her real "reason," and she did not intend to work on the real "reason." Ever. Needless to say, things did not improve.
Many years later, i have heard all of the excuses that there are in the universe, i think. Some of them could possibly qualify as reasons if she would take reponsibility for her preferences and her behaviors - which she won't. Physically caused low libido? Nope, will not talk to her doctor. Not attracted to me? Well maybe, but if I would just perform a few more acts of service. Lesbian? Nope, will not go there or think about it. Etc. The fact of the matter is that she never thought i was worth more to her than a servant, which she also won't take responsibility for as she states that this is "all in my mind."
As noted, it doesn't matter at this point. I am done.
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Post by wewbwb on Nov 30, 2016 18:03:57 GMT -5
Just so that I'm clearly explaining the excuse: She didn't state that SHE is too tired - she stated that I'M too tired! Wait a minute... she tells YOU that YOU are too tired? Thats mind blowing. I don't know what the hell to call that. Does she glide her hand in front of you in true "jedi mind trick" fashion? Or pull out a pocket watch and swing it side to side while chanting "you are tooooo tireeeed for seeeeexxx."?  - Noooo. It's a simple statement. "You're too tired." My reply was "Actually I'm not. I'm not dead. I think I'm getting better. I think I'll go for a walk." At which point she just stared at me and walked away. And while I didn't have sex - I still feel I won that one. |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 30, 2016 18:14:41 GMT -5
Wait a minute... she tells YOU that YOU are too tired? Thats mind blowing. I don't know what the hell to call that. Does she glide her hand in front of you in true "jedi mind trick" fashion? Or pull out a pocket watch and swing it side to side while chanting "you are tooooo tireeeed for seeeeexxx."? - Noooo. It's a simple statement. "You're too tired." My reply was "Actually I'm not. I'm not dead. I think I'm getting better. I think I'll go for a walk." At which point she just stared at me and walked away. And while I didn't have sex - I still feel I won that one. You didn't win. Sorry but you didn't. There is only one possible win here, and that is when the divorce papers are finalized. Until then she wins every time. All refusers always win. Until they lose what they want- the life they have, with the doormat they have. ETA: any time she can get away with such an outrageous statement without suffering any serious consequence, it's a huge win for her. And the more outrageous the excuse the bigger the win. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Nov 30, 2016 18:38:56 GMT -5
Wait a minute... she tells YOU that YOU are too tired? Thats mind blowing. I don't know what the hell to call that. Does she glide her hand in front of you in true "jedi mind trick" fashion? Or pull out a pocket watch and swing it side to side while chanting "you are tooooo tireeeed for seeeeexxx."? - Noooo. It's a simple statement. "You're too tired." My reply was "Actually I'm not. I'm not dead. I think I'm getting better. I think I'll go for a walk." At which point she just stared at me and walked away. And while I didn't have sex - I still feel I won that one. As she walked away, did you yell after her, "I feel happieeeeee!" |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 18:53:52 GMT -5
If the cause is "physical" it can be a "reason" - if the cause is "You're tired" it's an excuse. If the cause is "I don't love you anymore" - it's the truth. A reason can be legitimized. For instance, I have severe back/knee/hip pain. I have my period. My anti-depressants, or my blood pressure meds, or whatever I'm taking, is killing my sex drive. An excuse cannot be legitimized. For instance, I haven't shaved my legs. I haven't flossed my teeth. You smell like cigars, beer, and the interior of a strip club. It's the difference between I can't and I won't. |
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- Noooo. 