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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 30, 2016 20:38:20 GMT -5
My thoughts: I would always use "excuse". If we use "reason" then I feel it legitimizes their position. It may be a small detail to many but I believe a lot of sexless marriage is about denial and we are careful to use language and actions to keep us there. How many of us actually avoid the excuse or comments we get from our spouse when they make them? I am guilty of excepting excuses for reason. Especially in the early stages of marriage. That was when my job was to be forgiving, understanding, trusting, compassionate, selfless, and willing to give anything to make it work. Avoided, not really. Blindly trusting, and hoping for things to improve? yes. Allowing self doubt , shame and guilt to cloud my own self esteem? yes. Needing years to see how one sided things had become. Oh yea. Beyond repair....that too. |
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Post by baza on Nov 30, 2016 21:36:34 GMT -5
In marital sexual refusal situations, it doesn't matter whether the excuse / reason is genuine or totally bogus.
It makes no difference if the excuse / reason is perfectly logical or totally illogical.
Whether the excuse / reason is the truth or a bald faced lie doesn't matter.
Whether the rejection is deliberate or accidental matters not.
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The effect on you, the refused party, is the same whichever way you cut it.
Isolation, trashed self esteem, frustration, anger, and all those things that are an integral part of being a refused spouse in an ILIASM shithole.
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What IS of critical importance is whether YOU - the refused spouse - swallow the reason / excuse, suck it up, give the avoidant spouse a pass, and go along with it. That, is absolutely pivotal for the avoidant spouse.
Because if you don't, if you do not swallow the reason / excuse, if you do NOT give the avoidant spouse a pass, then the game is pretty much over.
An ILIASM shithole can NOT exist without two people playing their role.
#1 - being the avoidant - who's job it is to come up with excuses / reasons for their avoidance.
#2 - being you - who's job it is to accept the excuses / reasons - - - or not
Without you playing your role as "acceptor of excuses / reasons" an ILIASM shithole dynamic can not sustain itself.
Your continued presence in your ILIASM shithole is absolutely vital if it is to stay intact.
It cannot stay intact without your co-operation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 22:38:57 GMT -5
If the cause is "physical" it can be a "reason" - if the cause is "You're tired" it's an excuse. If the cause is "I don't love you anymore" - it's the truth. Arh of it was only so simple |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 30, 2016 22:43:53 GMT -5
If the cause is "physical" it can be a "reason" - if the cause is "You're tired" it's an excuse. If the cause is "I don't love you anymore" - it's the truth. Arh of it was only so simple It is that simple. It just takes 2 or 3 decades for most of us to get it |
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 30, 2016 22:58:10 GMT -5
Just so that I'm clearly explaining the excuse: She didn't state that SHE is too tired - she stated that I'M too tired! Yeah. I got that one recently. "You know where this would lead, and it'd preempt that other thing you were heading out to do." Um, thanks for looking out for me, but I'm pretty f'ing good at prioritizing my activities, so you can trust that -- whatever that other activity might be -- I decided this is more important. (And, no, there was no pressing task; it was all fabrication.) I should have called bullshit on her then, but my brain was stunned by the profound lameness of the excuse. |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 30, 2016 23:35:35 GMT -5
Just so that I'm clearly explaining the excuse: She didn't state that SHE is too tired - she stated that I'M too tired! Yeah. I got that one recently. "You know where this would lead, and it'd preempt that other thing you were heading out to do." Um, thanks for looking out for me, but I'm pretty f'ing good at prioritizing my activities, so you can trust that -- whatever that other activity might be -- I decided this is more important. (And, no, there was no pressing task; it was all fabrication.) I should have called bullshit on her then, but my brain was stunned by the profound lameness of the excuse. Yes, you should have called her out on that. And no, it wouldn't have made a damned difference. Some people like to fuck and done don't. And won't. Everything else is just drama in our minds. Until we walk out the door. |
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Post by baza on Nov 30, 2016 23:39:05 GMT -5
That line of yours a couple of posts ago Brother DC, ought be enshrined in the ILIASM shithole world as out motto / mantra.
- - - "I should have called bullshit on her then" - - -
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I reckon every last one of us has uttered those words, or words to that effect.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 23:56:41 GMT -5
Arh of it was only so simple It is that simple. It just takes 2 or 3 decades for most of us to get it And probably a new person posted how much they are in love and they always use the phrase "they are such a good person" and their spouse are so respectful except for the fact their partner unilaterally decided sex was no longer an important issue in their marriage ... and then we spend months talking until one day they admit the unreasonableness of their situation or like most who come here we don't offer a quick solution and their sex life isnt great again and they disappear as dearabby offers more palatable advice... you mean that simple solution |
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Post by Rhapsodee on Dec 1, 2016 0:33:46 GMT -5
To the refuser it's a reason to the refused it's an excuse. Still boils down to sexual incompatibility. Exactly! |
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Post by tamara68 on Dec 1, 2016 4:46:42 GMT -5
I think that there are reasons behind the excuses. The refuser is not attracted to the refused anymore, is mad at him/her, doesn't have any libido or whatever. But in stead of saying that true reason the refuser doesn't acknowledge the real problem and avoids clearing the fog by 'simple' excuses that keep the situation as it is and pretend nothing is wrong.
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Post by iceman on Dec 1, 2016 11:47:10 GMT -5
Along with her aresenal of lame excuses my wife does have some physical reasons for her lack of desire and I get those. The problem is that she is very reluctant to try to deal with them, for example not going to a doctor about them. She comes up with a lot of excuses as to why she won't deal with the reasons. If she really wanted to do something about her condition she actually would do something about it, not hide behind it. It tells me that yes she does have some physical issues but that's not the real problem. The real problem is that we're sexually incompatible. Over the years the reasons and excuses have changed many times but the situation between us remains the same. When she can no longer use a reason/excuse another one magically appears and we're in the same situation as before.
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Post by beachguy on Dec 1, 2016 12:18:40 GMT -5
I too heard various medical excuses. But eventually, when I could step back and see the big picture I understood that they were just excuses. So when I hear about medical excuses here, I am always very suspicious.
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Post by Mr. Positive on Dec 1, 2016 19:08:15 GMT -5
Reason vs. Excuse examples:
Reason-The kids are in the same room
Reason-We are at church
Excuse:Any reason that the refuser gives and makes sex seem as a burden and not a great thing.
For example: I worked all day and I'm too tired. (as you are standing there thinking I was working all day too and sex would make me forget about it.)
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Post by deleted on Dec 1, 2016 21:20:00 GMT -5
Reason vs. Excuse examples: Reason-The kids are in the same room Reason-We are at church Excuse:Any reason that the refuser gives and makes sex seem as a burden and not a great thing. For example: I worked all day and I'm too tired. (as you are standing there thinking I was working all day too and sex would make me forget about it.) Fair enough. What about in church while with the kids? |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 2, 2016 10:26:09 GMT -5
I see it like tamara68, there are reasons behind the excuses. The reason my Ex couldn't get a hard on was totally different than the excuse for avoiding ALL intimacy. |
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