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Post by unmatched on Oct 19, 2016 0:02:03 GMT -5
I was talking this morning after something that GC posted, and was thinking about what we get out of our marriages. We talk a lot about why they are shit, and what a big step it is for most of us to make the decision to leave, and then how hard it is to go through the actual leaving process, not to mention the process of rebuilding yourself afterwards. But it strikes me that we also stay because we are GETTING stuff from these marriages too. So I wanted to start a thread for people to post what they get out of their marriage.
For me it is safe, it is comfortable, it is known. We have a relationship built on years of being each other's best friend and knowing each other very well. There is a lot of trust that we will look out for each other and neither of us will abuse the other person. (Obviously there are limits to our willingness to take care of each other's needs here, but...)
It is a good environment to raise our son, who feels secure and loved and has a safe, solid home to live in.
We are financially in good shape and both more or less responsible.
It provides a fair degree of love and support and even affection, even if not in the ways that I want.
Then it starts to get a little murkier:
I know I have a friendship that I can rely on. That with some other friendships is mostly all I need. I don't have to go out and risk making lots of new ones or dealing with people who might be psychotic or getting burned by someone who is not what they seem to be.
I don't need to go through living on my own and find out whether I am as good at it as I think I was.
I don't need to date and risk getting rejected or having my heart broken.
I don't need to be too active in doing the things I think I want to do, because my life is pretty full already.
And then it starts to get really murky:
I get to feel like I am some kind of romantic hero, crying out for passion and intimacy and sex, and frustrated by cruel fate. I don't have to actually try and be that and find out that I am presumably just as flawed as everyone else. And even better I don't have to find out where those flaws are and have them rubbed in my face.
I get to live a life where I don't have to do much that I don't want to do or take too many risks, and it can all be somebody else's fault.
In fact I get to pretty much blame everything I don't like in my life on somebody else. Poor me!
I know it would be nice to have sex again, but that is some good shit to have to give up...
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Post by baza on Oct 19, 2016 0:42:08 GMT -5
So much in this post of yours Brother unmatched.
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And my take on it - for me - was that in my ILIASM deal, I did not have to challenge my thinking, nor did I have to challenge my choices.
That makes for a 'comfortable' situation, which can be very 'nice' but eventually quite empty and meaningless.
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I got to assume the role of "rock". The bloke who held the deal together by my own sacrifice. The bloke who could cop anything, and be able to keep going despite anything. I was proud of that role, and imagined people thought of me as quite the "hero". To be honest, that was my opinion of myself, and I embraced it, full on.
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What did I get out of it ???
I got a sense of self importance, an identity, a role, a place, a sense of purpose, and yes - a sense of superiority compared to some of those weak bastards who got divorced at the drop of a hat and had no idea of how to hang in there in adverse circumstances.
I got me a place on the moral high ground.
And it was a very nice view from that moral high ground.
I loved it, in a perverse sort of way.
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That's what I got out of it.
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Fucking ridiculous when I look back on it now, but real enough at that time.
Truth be told, I think my act - above - was a huge and elaborate hoax I perpetrated on myself to cover up a fundamental lack of confidence and self esteem.
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How my thinking turned around is another story for another day on another post sometime.
But the above was me, at that time and at that place.
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Post by lwoetin on Oct 19, 2016 3:50:49 GMT -5
I know it would be nice to have sex again, but that is some good shit to have to give up... My w does not need sex. I don't know if I really need sex but I do want it.** The goal is for both of us to enjoy it, despite not needing it. My good shit in marriage: She is my soulmate. We are blessed with kids. She tolerates me. She kinda looks like EW. **I was filtering through pxxxhub for Emma Watson lookalikes, but it is easy to lose one's focus on that site. With the sound muted, I see a guy, hips moving back and forth on this hot woman who doesn't resemble EW much. Is all this hip motion really a need? |
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Post by bballgirl on Oct 19, 2016 8:36:00 GMT -5
My marriage was like an emotional roller coaster at the end with so many different emotions. Some days were good some days were bad.
Good day emotions - I felt: calm, happy enough
Bad day emotions- I felt: sad, angry, resentful, controlled, lonely
What did I get out of the marriage?-
A sense of comfort with familiarity (Geez I hate packing and moving)
In some ways we knew each other better than anyone (but not sexually)
Double Income
Family unit intact under one roof
What I didn't get outnumbered what I did get. There were a lot of problems beyond just sex so for me I made the right decision to leave. The crying is down to once a month max if that.
He lost attraction to me first and eventually I figured that out and lost attraction to him. I wanted more for myself and to have the opportunity to have a relationship with someone I'm attracted to.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 8:45:45 GMT -5
I know it would be nice to have sex again, but that is some good shit to have to give up... My w does not need sex. I don't know if I really need sex but I do want it.** The goal is for both of us to enjoy it, despite not needing it. My good shit in marriage: She is my soulmate. We are blessed with kids. She tolerates me. She kinda looks like EW. **I was filtering through pxxxhub for Emma Watson lookalikes, but it is easy to lose one's focus on that site. With the sound muted, I see a guy, hips moving back and forth on this hot woman who doesn't resemble EW much. Is all this hip motion really a need? Mechanical grinding for a paycheck isn't a need. Emotional intimacy is. And there is no more wonderful emotional intimacy than when your bodies become one with someone you love. Lots of people have lots of good reasons for staying in a sexless marriage, but it all comes up short without that beautiful intimacy. If all the other stuff was enough, this place wouldn't exist. We try all kinds of things to fill the void. Affairs, online flirtations, mechanical companionship, Pornhub, I did all that, and nothing filled the hole in my heart. I had a nice house, a roommate who let me do my own thing, a good circle of friends, and I did and part of me still does love my roommate. But even with all that, and all the desperate measures to find a substitute, it wasn't enough without the intimacy that only a loving sexual relationship can provide. And that special intimacy is something you should expect in marriage. It's not something you ask for, not something you bargain for, not something that one day just unilaterally stops. It is an expectation. If it's not part of your marriage, you can stay or leave, your choice, but you're settling. No matter how much other good stuff you have, you're settling. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 8:52:49 GMT -5
Some good answers about the good things in our marriages. But I don't think the feelings of familiarity and the friendly relations with our spouses are what we get/got out of our marriages. I think it's more along the lines of needing confirmation of our worldview that all relationships turn bad, or being enablers, or wanting to save someone, or feeling that we need to be punished or abused. The visible stuff is just a coat of paint over some very dark relationship dynamics that we damn well better take a hard look at if we leave, or we're going to end up in another shithole, sexless or not.
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Post by beachguy on Oct 19, 2016 9:07:49 GMT -5
Another way to look at this... If you were offered a nonsexual marriage, devoid of intimacy, what would it take for you to say yes?
How much money? How nice of a mansion? How much freedom to otherwise pursue your life (sexually or otherwise?)
ETA: add on any additional perks as you see fit
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 15:29:22 GMT -5
What I got from my SM deal:
- An intelligent friend who liked a lot of the same things I liked and had similar values. That's worth a lot - and it's hard to give up.
- The feeling that at least I was attractive to one man, once upon a time - even if that was no longer true, at least it was true in the past. (I just wasn't ready this soon to be an old lady reminiscing about the old days when I was still pretty. I thought I could postpone that at least another 10 or 12 years!)
- A better apartment than I could have on my own.
- Someone who would take care of me if I ever got sick. (Although I hardly ever get sick, and he often did.)
- The approval of the older generation, who (at least in my family) have this compulsion to see everybody paired up like Noah's ark or something. The quality of the pairing isn't as important as the fact that there is one.
- A built-in excuse to stay home and read, instead of going out. When couples stay in, it's cute, cozy, sweet, etc. If you are on your own and you want a nice peaceful evening at home, you feel bad about it - it's like you have to be out doing something every fucking evening. I like a balance - go out sometimes, stay in other times,
- A reason to keep to a normal schedule, eat somewhat healthily, etc. When I live alone, I obey very few rules and start to go from civilized to feral.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 15:42:28 GMT -5
What I got from my SM deal: - An intelligent friend who liked a lot of the same things I liked and had similar values. That's worth a lot - and it's hard to give up. - The feeling that at least I was attractive to one man, once upon a time - even if that was no longer true, at least it was true in the past. (I just wasn't ready this soon to be an old lady reminiscing about the old days when I was still pretty. I thought I could postpone that at least another 10 or 12 years!) - A better apartment than I could have on my own. - Someone who would take care of me if I ever got sick. (Although I hardly ever get sick, and he often did.) - The approval of the older generation, who (at least in my family) have this compulsion to see everybody paired up like Noah's ark or something. The quality of the pairing isn't as important as the fact that there is one. - A built-in excuse to stay home and read, instead of going out. When couples stay in, it's cute, cozy, sweet, etc. If you are on your own and you want a nice peaceful evening at home, you feel bad about it - it's like you have to be out doing something every fucking evening. I like a balance - go out sometimes, stay in other times, - A reason to keep to a normal schedule, eat somewhat healthily, etc. When I live alone, I obey very few rules and start to go from civilized to feral. I like the staying in part. Yeah if you stay in together people think you're a quiet couple, if you stay in by yourself people think you're socially maladapted. Maybe a good reason not to chase girls half my age; I couldn't keep up LOL. |
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Post by bballgirl on Oct 19, 2016 15:50:39 GMT -5
What I got from my SM deal: - An intelligent friend who liked a lot of the same things I liked and had similar values. That's worth a lot - and it's hard to give up. - The feeling that at least I was attractive to one man, once upon a time - even if that was no longer true, at least it was true in the past. (I just wasn't ready this soon to be an old lady reminiscing about the old days when I was still pretty. I thought I could postpone that at least another 10 or 12 years!) - A better apartment than I could have on my own. - Someone who would take care of me if I ever got sick. (Although I hardly ever get sick, and he often did.) - The approval of the older generation, who (at least in my family) have this compulsion to see everybody paired up like Noah's ark or something. The quality of the pairing isn't as important as the fact that there is one. - A built-in excuse to stay home and read, instead of going out. When couples stay in, it's cute, cozy, sweet, etc. If you are on your own and you want a nice peaceful evening at home, you feel bad about it - it's like you have to be out doing something every fucking evening. I like a balance - go out sometimes, stay in other times, - A reason to keep to a normal schedule, eat somewhat healthily, etc. When I live alone, I obey very few rules and start to go from civilized to feral. I like the staying in part. Yeah if you stay in together people think you're a quiet couple, if you stay in by yourself people think you're socially maladapted. Maybe a good reason not to chase girls half my age; I couldn't keep up LOL. Not to mention listening to the stupidity falling out of their mouth. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 17:00:33 GMT -5
I like the staying in part. Yeah if you stay in together people think you're a quiet couple, if you stay in by yourself people think you're socially maladapted. Maybe a good reason not to chase girls half my age; I couldn't keep up LOL. Not to mention listening to the stupidity falling out of their mouth. Totally. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 20, 2016 13:06:06 GMT -5
I have to give the question some thought. When I had already decided to go, my therapist asked me what WOULD I actually miss. I had to think PRETTY LONG & HARD about it. I finally came up with: our shared humor. We had spent 25 years building a full repertoire of inside jokes. Not being able to just utter the punchline and have someone "get it" anymore - - that feels a little lonely (or - felt that way at first, really). Turns out, I don't really give two sh*ts about it now and it's only been a year. There are lots of people who do share my sense of humor, even if not those particular one liners that used to be the shtick. I'm going to think about the real answer to the rest of the question though - because this is good, meaty stuff right here.
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Post by Dan on Oct 20, 2016 14:58:37 GMT -5
What am I getting out of staying in my SM at this time? I am getting a co-parent, and deferring the financial hit of splitting our household.
My kids range in age from 24 to 15. The oldest is immature. The second one has mental health problems. The third is selecting colleges. The youngest is very active, and needs lots of chauffeuring. But they are ALL are still sponges: soaking up every bit of parental wisdom we can spoon in to them. I would very much like to focus on getting them all successfully "launched"; it is my joy to be their parent and help them grow.
No, she is not an emotional or intimate companion to me. But having her around is an extra parent for the kids, and extra pair of hands around the house, an extra driver, and an extra [modest] paycheck. And she enjoys my cooking, which is good for my ego.
That's "what I'm getting now".
I compare that to "what I'd have now" if I decided to divorce now: higher costs (because my wife and I would still have to find a way to house THREE dependents); greater consternation and agita for everyone in the family. It would interfere with my enjoyment of these final years of raising my children. Why take that on at this time?
OK, theoretically, I'd get a chance at forming new friendships that might lead to a a long-term sexual relationship -- which is what I'm missing and so much desire. But, again, launching my children is still top priority and I'd still have to be heavily interacting with their [now very distraught] mother AND setting up a new household. So, really, how much time am I going to have for dating?
On my current plan, here's what I think the future is: In about three years our youngest will be away at college, and all the others will be that much closer to being emotionally and financially independent. We are currently planning to substantially downsize our home so we can pay for college and save more for retirement. My secret plan -- assuming I still want a divorce then -- is to tell her then. Here's how I envision The Talk™: "You know how we were planning to sell this place and get a smaller one? I don't really want to be married anymore, so let's just each get our own little place, OK?" And at that point, our costs are MUCH less, as other than having a spare room for the summer for two college kids, we have no more dependents to house/feed on a regular basis.
The decision almost boils down do this:
A) continue to deal with the lack of intimacy (for a few more years), love my kids as much as possible (and love doing it), and defer dating.
B) divorce now, get to start dating now, but suck all the joy out of the final few years living with my kids.
At this time, I've chosen "option A".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 20:12:06 GMT -5
We own a very successful business together but do very different jobs. She's the business genius and I'm the artistic and creative end of it. I tried for years to make it on my own without much luck....just another starving artist until I met my wife and my career, which has always been the most important aspect of my life, with her support, financial and otherwise, took off like a rocket. That's the main reason I married her. I could probably earn a basic living if I left but nowhere near what we make together. I grew up poor so this is important. I always say I gave up sex to get married but I also gave up sex to be creatively and financially successful.
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Post by JonDoe on Oct 20, 2016 20:21:47 GMT -5
Another way to look at this... If you were offered a nonsexual marriage, devoid of intimacy, what would it take for you to say yes? How much money? How nice of a mansion? How much freedom to otherwise pursue your life (sexually or otherwise?) ETA: add on any additional perks as you see fit $50 million in unmarked bills |
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