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Post by JMX on Oct 20, 2016 21:55:25 GMT -5
We own a very successful business together but do very different jobs. She's the business genius and I'm the artistic and creative end of it. I tried for years to make it on my own without much luck....just another starving artist until I met my wife and my career, which has always been the most important aspect of my life, with her support, financial and otherwise, took off like a rocket. That's the main reason I married her. I could probably earn a basic living if I left but nowhere near what we make together. I grew up poor so this is important. I always say I gave up sex to get married but I also gave up sex to be creatively and financially successful. This bothers me dannyc - you baited and switched her for financial reasons, did you not?i say this having read your comments and back stories. You didn't choose this for you (well, you did) - you chose sexlessness for her. |
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Post by JMX on Oct 20, 2016 21:59:21 GMT -5
unmatched - I am in a very different place today than yesterday - so take this with a grain of salt - is it possible that a mirror is in place to show you the things you do not like or would change about yourself? I am not saying this changes the scope of your question or the fact that you stay or leave in your situation. Rather than looking at what we are all getting from our situations - what are we really "getting" (psychologically speaking) that we needed to get? Stay or leave?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 11:28:52 GMT -5
unmatched - I am in a very different place today than yesterday - so take this with a grain of salt - is it possible that a mirror is in place to show you the things you do not like or would change about yourself? I am not saying this changes the scope of your question or the fact that you stay or leave in your situation. Rather than looking at what we are all getting from our situations - what are we really "getting" (psychologically speaking) that we needed to get? Stay or leave? I think I was getting at this somewhat in my post. Part of what I got out of being with him was the better social status of being half of a couple. Yes, we're all modern and evolved now, and we know that being part of a couple does not mean you're superior - and being single does not mean we're inferior. We know that, in our heads. In our emotions, we still feel like losers who are "unwanted" if we are not coupled up. Our heads and our emotions often have an epic battle over this. And most people won't even admit that it's true. |
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Post by iceman on Oct 21, 2016 12:05:20 GMT -5
Another way to look at this... If you were offered a nonsexual marriage, devoid of intimacy, what would it take for you to say yes? How much money? How nice of a mansion? How much freedom to otherwise pursue your life (sexually or otherwise?) ETA: add on any additional perks as you see fit Exactly!! Before I was married if someone said your marriage will result in great children, financial security, a nice house, companionship, etc. but no sex. Are you good with that? There is no way I would have said 'Sure, sign me up!!' I would have run for the door. I wish somebody had asked be that back then. I wouldn't be in this situation.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 12:27:42 GMT -5
This is a great question.
I get security and stability in my relationship. I also have a companion to do things with.
The older I get the more apparent it's becoming that these are not enough. I've let go of an important piece of my manhood by accepting safety over my feelings. I've always thought of myself as a stoic in personality. I've stood up at work and stood up for others. I assumed that this made me strong. In the end, I realize I was a very weak man because I let my relationship continue without doing something. I was playing the victim.
The good news is that I'm moving forward and feeling a spark inside myself. People treat me different or I perceive it as different. My wife knows now that her behavior will not be accepted. Of course, I've had to make concessions with her. Now, it's up to her if I continue this relationship, if she is willing to do the work. My biggest regret was not doing this 5 years ago.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 21, 2016 12:45:03 GMT -5
This is a great question. I get security and stability in my relationship. I also have a companion to do things with. The older I get the more apparent it's becoming that these are not enough. I've let go of an important piece of my manhood by accepting safety over my feelings. I've always thought of myself as a stoic in personality. I've stood up at work and stood up for others. I assumed that this made me strong. In the end, I realize I was a very weak man because I let my relationship continue without doing something. I was playing the victim. The good news is that I'm moving forward and feeling a spark inside myself. People treat me different or I perceive it as different. My wife knows now that her behavior will not be accepted. Of course, I've had to make concessions with her. Now, it's up to her if I continue this relationship, if she is willing to do the work. My biggest regret was not doing this 5 years ago. Wonderful, great, that you are having "ah-hah" moments! Just be cautious to not take it too far, too quickly. Don't condemn yourself to harshly. We are talking apples to oranges here. shrink4men has some very good articles about dealing with a narcissistic wife. The key is "wife,or spouce if you want to reverse it, applies either way". We are talking about the person you took a pledge, made a vow, a promise, a duty, to guard, protect, shield, love, cherish, no matter how you are treated. Many issues that most of us would not tolerate in our everyday relations with others, yet have been trained to concede to in a marriage. Time has a way of dissolving, breaking through the phony, manipulative methods of a controller. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 12:50:25 GMT -5
We own a very successful business together but do very different jobs. She's the business genius and I'm the artistic and creative end of it. I tried for years to make it on my own without much luck....just another starving artist until I met my wife and my career, which has always been the most important aspect of my life, with her support, financial and otherwise, took off like a rocket. That's the main reason I married her. I could probably earn a basic living if I left but nowhere near what we make together. I grew up poor so this is important. I always say I gave up sex to get married but I also gave up sex to be creatively and financially successful. This bothers me dannyc - you baited and switched her for financial reasons, did you not?i say this having read your comments and back stories. You didn't choose this for you (well, you did) - you chose sexlessness for her. Technically no. Almost 30 years ago when we got married I had no idea that the sexual dysfunctions I had been suffering from all my life were all that serious. I thought I was just easily bored sexually and that's why I would lose sexual desire for women after two or three sexual encounters when I was single and dating. She knew about the problem because just like all the others the dysfunctions began with her soon after we started dating. We both thought that therapy could fix the problem and she agreed that we would go to sex therapy after we got married. Which we did do, for many years until she gave it up (I kept going by myself for a total of 10 years with 6 different therapists) So she knew what was going on before and fairly early in the marriage but decided to stay on anyway, even after therapy failed. I think the reason was the same as mine. Our business success proved to both of us that the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. We both would have liked to have a sexually fulfilling marriage but because of circumstances out of our control it wasn't to be. I suggested open marriage, told her to take lovers if she wanted (providing I could too) but she refused. She could have left anytime, indeed, she came into the marriage with way more money than I did (I was basically broke and deep in debt) so she could survive very well financially if she left but she chooses to stay. We get along great. Can't remember the last time we had an argument and are best buddies. The thing that would make my life perfect is if I could go out and have sex once a week or so (I don't suffer dysfunctions with women I am not in an emotionally intimate relationship with) but this is her one rule....no outside sex....that would be a deal breaker. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 21, 2016 16:54:07 GMT -5
I get security I've let go of an important piece of my manhood by accepting safety over my feelings. I've always thought of myself as a stoic in personality. I assumed that this made me strong. In the end, I realize I was a very weak man because I let my relationship continue without doing something. I was playing the victim. @heraclitus - I echo the parts of your reply above. I let go of an important part of my spirit by not standing up to my Ex when I felt things going "wrong" - my reasoning was that I didn't want to have to micromanage a relationship and partly that is true. But partly it was also chickenshit because I was just too damn fearful to walk. I am not a chickenshit but I played one some of those years. As part of ACA - I discovered that I do/did have an innate subconscious belief that I did not deserve better. So I just accepted the marriage as "better than being alone" - in a way, I am glad that it got so bad and MADE me realize that it was NOT better than being alone. I am working on myself a lot these days and trying to get to the point that I truly deeply believe that I deserve the best-suited partner - an ideal relationship with intimacy, vulnerability (that is safe and will not lead to mocking), sex - lots of that! - and romance, witty repartee, charm, good looks. Why stop there? How about plus a relationship model that supports my sobriety and sanity - and knows how to laugh and have a good time. The Ex - he had great humor but through the years, it turned to bitter or mean (superior-like) humor. I'm finding my balls, you might say - and looking for someone else's soon too! :-) |
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Post by cagedtiger on Oct 25, 2016 22:43:13 GMT -5
As a friend of mine put it earlier this evening:
"dude, as an outside observer, its seems like the only thing you get out of your relationship is heartache and pain."
Feeling it tonight. We're friendly, and I feel like we're friends, but I'm not feeling anything else after that. We go out and do things that I would do with friends, for the most part.
Sunday night, we went out with several couples from our church, all around our age. Suddenly, the wife was charming, warm, witty, personable, and fun to be around. And then of course we came home and she went straight to bed and blared Cartoon Network until she passed out while I was still up. Par for the course.
She's out of town, and I'm hoping she won't ask if I missed her while she was gone. I didn't miss her. I am, however, feeling lonely, unloved, underappreciated, taken for granted, and oh so very misunderstood and neglected. But that's from the last two years, not the last week or two.
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Post by unmatched on Oct 25, 2016 23:05:24 GMT -5
As a friend of mine put it earlier this evening: "dude, as an outside observer, its seems like the only thing you get out of your relationship is heartache and pain." Feeling it tonight. We're friendly, and I feel like we're friends, but I'm not feeling anything else after that. We go out and do things that I would do with friends, for the most part. Sunday night, we went out with several couples from our church, all around our age. Suddenly, the wife was charming, warm, witty, personable, and fun to be around. And then of course we came home and she went straight to bed and blared Cartoon Network until she passed out while I was still up. Par for the course. She's out of town, and I'm hoping she won't ask if I missed her while she was gone. I didn't miss her. I am, however, feeling lonely, unloved, underappreciated, taken for granted, and oh so very misunderstood and neglected. But that's from the last two years, not the last week or two. It sucks when she can be a different person around other people, and sinks back into a stupor when she is with you. That is when you know you have really become part of the furniture. Or as she might say, 'I feel I don't have to prove anything when I am with you.' |
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Post by cagedtiger on Oct 25, 2016 23:09:05 GMT -5
As a friend of mine put it earlier this evening: "dude, as an outside observer, its seems like the only thing you get out of your relationship is heartache and pain." Feeling it tonight. We're friendly, and I feel like we're friends, but I'm not feeling anything else after that. We go out and do things that I would do with friends, for the most part. Sunday night, we went out with several couples from our church, all around our age. Suddenly, the wife was charming, warm, witty, personable, and fun to be around. And then of course we came home and she went straight to bed and blared Cartoon Network until she passed out while I was still up. Par for the course. She's out of town, and I'm hoping she won't ask if I missed her while she was gone. I didn't miss her. I am, however, feeling lonely, unloved, underappreciated, taken for granted, and oh so very misunderstood and neglected. But that's from the last two years, not the last week or two. It sucks when she can be a different person around other people, and sinks back into a stupor when she is with you. That is when you know you have really become part of the furniture. Or as she might say, 'I feel I don't have to prove anything when I am with you.' Her explanation is, "I just feel closer to you when we're around other people... Like, I'm proud of you, of being with you at those times." |
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Post by unmatched on Oct 25, 2016 23:15:03 GMT -5
It sucks when she can be a different person around other people, and sinks back into a stupor when she is with you. That is when you know you have really become part of the furniture. Or as she might say, 'I feel I don't have to prove anything when I am with you.' Her explanation is, "I just feel closer to you when we're around other people... Like, I'm proud of you, of being with you at those times." So she feels close when she is knows she is safe from actually having to be close. She feels all warm and fuzzy about the relationship, but doesn't want to actually have one. Useful... |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Oct 26, 2016 2:20:30 GMT -5
It sucks when she can be a different person around other people, and sinks back into a stupor when she is with you. That is when you know you have really become part of the furniture. Or as she might say, 'I feel I don't have to prove anything when I am with you.' Her explanation is, "I just feel closer to you when we're around other people... Like, I'm proud of you, of being with you at those times." Oh so she's ok with you as an accessory to show off. Try to take the complimentary bit of that Tiger. X |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 17:43:32 GMT -5
It sucks when she can be a different person around other people, and sinks back into a stupor when she is with you. That is when you know you have really become part of the furniture. Or as she might say, 'I feel I don't have to prove anything when I am with you.' Her explanation is, "I just feel closer to you when we're around other people... Like, I'm proud of you, of being with you at those times." Very well, then ask her if she'd be more comfortable with group sex. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Oct 26, 2016 18:02:21 GMT -5
Her explanation is, "I just feel closer to you when we're around other people... Like, I'm proud of you, of being with you at those times." Very well, then ask her if she'd be more comfortable with group sex. Once, several years ago, when very, very drunk, she told me she might let me watch while she hooked up with the very attractive young waitress who'd just waited on us at dinner. Then she fucked my brains out. Hmmm, now that I remember, we'd been dating for all of 4 months at that point. It hasn't come up since then. |
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