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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 9, 2016 21:31:51 GMT -5
This is kind of odd. I learned that one of my program fellows is a neighbor in the apartment complex. Last week, he messaged on FB to see if I was going to a 7 pm Sunday night meeting. (It was addressed to me as "Hey neightbor") That night, I was already at a different location. The speaker meeting he was going to conflicts with one of the two per week Adult Child meetings (I usually go to that Sunday & Wed). Since I could plan it ahead - I told him I'd go this week instead, because I can still get my ACA meeting on Wed.
So today I wrote to ask if I was riding with him or I could drive. I also asked what time he usually leaves the apartment complex to get there. He would drive and pick me up at 6:30 by my building. So when he got here, I hopped in like any passenger. We went to the meeting and sat together. It was a small meeting and two speakers shared their stories. On the way in, he asked if I wanted a coffee (the auditorium is at a hospital). No. Then we're passing a different snack counter and he stops for a tea - offers again do I want anything. No thanks, I brought my water.
We hear the speakers and visited a little bit after with other folks that were there. And - then we leave, walking to his car in the garage. He tries to get to the door earlier than me and I miss the social cue and open the door, but he waits there to be sure I'm in and I let him shut the car door for me. So then he asks if I'm up for ice cream or something - considered, and yeah, let's stop. (I picked Dairy Queen because it's close and I know what sizes they have) We go in and he buys the ice cream. This time back to the car, I paid attention and went slow enough to let him get the car door.
So we pull into the parking lot and he parks & turns off the car. Now I was a little confused (Is he walking me to the door? I dunno) He pauses there and says he's going next door to the nearby grocery (the one with the infamous liquor section that you may have seen mentioned before which made my escalation of alcohol consumption SO handy). So I went ahead and gave him a hug before saying bye to him.
I don't really even KNOW whether it was a date. Which - I'm sorry but if I had thought he was asking me for a date, I probably would've declined that. (This is a: sorry I'm not sorry).
I don't dislike him, but I don't want to date him either. He truly IS a nice guy, but he isn't gregarious. Very underspoken (if you've seen my posts, you will understand why that would be a mismatch for me).
It was pleasant.
I really don't know what he thought of it.
I just had to post it somewhere and knew I couldn't handwrite all this in my journal. Typing it up was much easier.
I await the return of the other program fellow who I actually HAVE a crush on. He's in Bahamas at a friend's wedding. To return later this week. And I want to find out if I can get another hug like the one I got from him a week ago before his trip. THAT hug, I can't really forget about. My spirit soars a little whenever I think about it.
I have never had a "spiritual crush" before - but that is the best way I can phrase it. Although the traveler "is probably too young for me" I have this attraction to him, from listening to what he shares in meetings and I have heard him speak so beautifully about relationships (what wasn't working with the girl he broke it off with this spring, he felt bad in some ways, but what he does hope for in a relationship) - - whoever he hooks up to date next will be a lucky gal (and I'd like to be that lady - I think I would). I have no idea the real odds of me & the young one, but would like to find out. If it turns out he isn't interested, I believe I will be fine with that. Due to the trip, I couldn't find out just yet. Fingers crossed for between now & the Halloween party.
In all cases of program fellows - I still have the legitimate "out" that I haven't been sober a FULL 12 months yet. But I'm getting my toes ready to dip into the dating pool. Little nervous. Little excited.
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Post by baza on Oct 9, 2016 23:36:02 GMT -5
Inexpert comment follows.
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Would it be realistic to say that this is where the big difference between 'internet dating' (where, If you are agreeable cyberwise, then you go out on a date, and if the datee is a dud, there's your night and the time you spent on research wasted) and 'just meeting people' essentially lies ?
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This reads to me Sister gg like a "pre-date outing" from which you formed an opinion - "I don't dislike him, but I don't want to date him either".
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See, I figure that in your life you are meeting people all the time, at your meetings etc and elsewhere, and you are probably forming opinions about all manner of people, IRL.
Like your opinion of this bloke.
Like your opinion about this other bloke (the 'in the Bahams's at present' bloke')
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Seems to me that just meeting people IRL provides those subtle nuances of body language, speech inflection and similar that an internet posting can not provide.
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I think your present approach is eminently sensible gg.
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Usual disclaimer - last time I was "dating" was a gazillion years ago, and I was rotten at it.
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Post by bballgirl on Oct 10, 2016 8:09:54 GMT -5
Sounds like overall it was a good experience and it sounds more like a pre dating type outing. If nothing else it was good practice.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 10, 2016 8:55:28 GMT -5
I agree that part of what threw me off was that I expected it to be a "buddy outing" only and maybe he is just gentlemanly and it wasn't much of anything more than being nice. I think I thought I would know ahead of time if I had been invited "on a real date" and...
Mostly it is so much more evidence that my social skills still require some polishing. I doubt if folks who have not been in an SM would have to OVER-analyze this quite so much! LOL
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Post by beachguy on Oct 10, 2016 9:20:48 GMT -5
I agree that part of what threw me off was that I expected it to be a "buddy outing" only and maybe he is just gentlemanly and it wasn't much of anything more than being nice. I think I thought I would know ahead of time if I had been invited "on a real date" and... Mostly it is so much more evidence that my social skills still require some polishing. I doubt if folks who have not been in an SM would have to OVER-analyze this quite so much! LOL Or perhaps he was cautiously feeling you out to see if there was something to pursue. People don't usually open themselves up for that kind of vulnerability ? |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 10, 2016 10:07:30 GMT -5
beachguy - I think this is the "right" explanation. It took me by surprise a little and I didn't respond by flirting or anything really. I was polite, but not enthusiastic. And so it was a good salvo without much rejection. I think our exchange likely communicated the right messages. It strikes me as "funny" that I have to sit & think it over so, so much. I theorize that others wouldn't spend so much time trying to figure out what certain things mean and that it's a result of my SM. We get so out of touch with "regular" human relations!
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Post by beachguy on Oct 10, 2016 10:12:28 GMT -5
beachguy - I think this is the "right" explanation. It took me by surprise a little and I didn't respond by flirting or anything really. I was polite, but not enthusiastic. And so it was a good salvo without much rejection. I think our exchange likely communicated the right messages. It strikes me as "funny" that I have to sit & think it over so, so much. I theorize that others wouldn't spend so much time trying to figure out what certain things mean and that it's a result of my SM. We get so out of touch with "regular" human relations! You just need a little practice. You seemed to have handled it well and you know what you're looking for |
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 10, 2016 10:34:58 GMT -5
beachguy - I think this is the "right" explanation. It took me by surprise a little and I didn't respond by flirting or anything really. I was polite, but not enthusiastic. And so it was a good salvo without much rejection. I think our exchange likely communicated the right messages. It strikes me as "funny" that I have to sit & think it over so, so much. I theorize that others wouldn't spend so much time trying to figure out what certain things mean and that it's a result of my SM. We get so out of touch with "regular" human relations! I'll spare the details of an experience I had with a female co- worker. The bottom line is, I find myself aggressive at reaching out to help someone else. While remaining very passive at helping myself. So if someone was coming on to me ,wanting to do something for me, being nice, flirting, etc... I can be blind to it. I have also been suckered before due to my trust in others. Now with the divorce comes a over developed sense of mistrust. |
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Post by wewbwb on Oct 10, 2016 10:56:41 GMT -5
Actually, It sounds like he was TRYING to have a date....
But couldn't actually ask you on one.
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Post by obobfla on Oct 10, 2016 11:56:32 GMT -5
GeekGoddess, be careful there! I dated before my first year of sobriety was up. Sure enough, I met the woman I eventually married. Now I have stayed sober through all this, but I am kind of wondering if the pink cloud of that first year messed up my judgement. Stay safe.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 10, 2016 14:29:49 GMT -5
GeekGoddess, be careful there! I dated before my first year of sobriety was up. Sure enough, I met the woman I eventually married. Now I have stayed sober through all this, but I am kind of wondering if the pink cloud of that first year messed up my judgement. Stay safe. I don't envision ever marrying again. I have less than 2 months to my one year. If the young one is into it, I'm going for that. But it wouldn't likely be "too very long term" because of the age difference. Sooner or later, that would catch up (but it could be very fun for a time!) I'm being careful though, really. I appreciate your suggestion though! I talk to my sponsor about this topic. She said I have my head on straight about it & she thinks "I'm ready" to start dating as long as I keep up the other facets (of mtgs, meeting w/her, daily prayer, nightly journal, therapy). I don't think it'll happen overnight but I'm starting to get ready to try. Thanks obobfla! |
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Post by Dan on Oct 10, 2016 21:34:54 GMT -5
This general topic of "is it a date?" is VERY interesting to me. (Partly because I've not been on a "normal date" in, oh, 28 years. Err, well, I've been dating, but not as a single person.)
I actually have Googled this question, and there seems to be general confusion on the matter: both genders; all ages -- 20 to 60. So many web sites, relationship articles, blog posts... SO MUCH CONFUSION ON THIS POINT!
Here's how I'd like it to work; here's how I'd like to define "date" (if Dan were Ruler Of The World):
• Man and woman meet at a specific place at a specific time, or plan to go to somewhere together. Therefore: it's "a date". Simple!
• But the fact that it is a date DOES NOT mean "they are on track for romance"... or sex... or that it is ANYTHING exclusive. Heck: it might not even turn in to friendship!
• It doesn't matter who pays: him, her, go dutch.
• It doesn't matter who pulls out the chair or holds the door.
• It doesn't matter who shaved (or didn't), or what parts they shaved (or didn't).
• It doesn't matter if one or both or neither got "dressed up".
• It doesn't matter if one or both or neither got did extra grooming, or used cologne, perfume, or a breath freshener.
• If they had a nice time, great. If not, darn. But it was still "a date".
• If they plan another "date", fine.
• If they have a "date" with someone else before these two have another "date", fine. It is totally fine!
Basically, just call it a date! Get over it. LOWER the bar of what is called "a date"... and ditch the baggage of the dreaded "was this a date?" question.
What MATTERS is: when the two EXPRESSLY and MUTUALLY decide "I like you so much, I don't want to date anyone else". THEN AND ONLY THEN are they "dating". (And -- for that matter -- I even take "exclusive" with a grain of salt. This "now dating" couple might have any sort of monogamish relationship they discuss and mutually agree to.)
"He pulls the chair out for her" might happen before or after they are "dating"...
"She buys him something thoughtful" might happen before or after they are "dating"...
Kissing might happen before or after they are "dating"...
Sex might happen before or after they are "dating"...
Having "been on a date" doesn't mean a couple is "dating"! It just means they met somewhere at some pre-agreed time at least once.
What is the key question is "are we dating"... and there is NO confusion, as this is NOT the case until there is an express conversation that you are now in an exclusive relationship.
Please tell me... doesn't this make sense? Isn't this simpler than the current conundrum?
I think this solves previously discussed problems posted by @smartkat and HelenT: "how do you break it off?" My view is: you DON'T have to "break things off" just because you went on a date (as I define it). The only thing you have to "break off" is if you previously (mutually and expressly) agreed "we are exclusive", THEN you have to let the other person know "I don't want to see you any more" or "I'm not longer exclusive with you".
Again: doesn't this make sense? Isn't this simpler than the current conundrum?
If so, I will accept your write-in vote this November for "Ruler Of The World".
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 10, 2016 22:33:06 GMT -5
Dan - in the match.com site, I will know when I'm meeting a date because we will agree on a place & time. This particular situation though (want to go to a meeting I'm already going to because we're neighbors) had not struck me AS THAT when first arranged. I wasn't sure if it tipped over into a date or not (the ice cream after). It actually makes me feel better that you found so much discussion of the topic. (I feel less uninformed now) Yes it's simple the way you said. But I hadn't noticed it when agreeing to time/place because of it being a meeting.
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Post by Dan on Oct 11, 2016 10:28:46 GMT -5
GeekGoddess : So... hmmm... you were going to the same place (meeting) that you've both been to before but usually just go separately. This time you decided to ride together. So... is THAT a date? Well, You immediately found a case I didn't cover. I guess I'm not as clever as I thought! But don't stress about what to call it. Sounds like he was making overtures that you a) picked up on, b) are not sure how to respond to. But my view is: allow a guy to be nice once in a while. And -- for heaven's sake (speaking as "the guy" in this conversation) simply acknowledge the kindness! Just with a smile and a thank you at the gesture. You can do that without having a complete plan as to how your friendship is going to go. What I'm saying as "the guy" here: I'd rather a woman acknowledge the friendship gesture, but -- if necessary at the right time in the future -- be clear that she is not interested in dating for the time being. This is MUCH BETTER than to have her not acknowledge the kindness with the "hope he'll get the point that I don't want to date". Me: I'd rather hear "thanks for the ice cream but no thanks on dating" than NOT even hear "thanks for the ice cream". It makes me worry: "I was so feeble in my attempt that she didn't even notice my gesture!" I know women have it tough in dating, but so do men. I feel it is still the default expectation that men are principally the initiators. And: they can't always get it right. Come in "too hot" (being too forward) will turn some women off. Come in too slowly (NOT making concrete "I like you" gestures) will turn some women off. For me personally: if I make as many errors one way as the other, then I guess I figure I'm doing it "about right"! Yes, there is a brief period of time where this is social ambiguity. I guess I'm comfortable with this sort of ambiguity... because it is just life. I mean, there isn't any BETTER way to do this. Relationships just kind of "happen". Or maybe they "grow". But you can't negotiate every gesture: "sure, you can buy me ice cream as long as you agree not to pester me for sex someday." After all, during your second "impromptu ice cream date", you might just find out he has "a great sense of humor and a dirty mind" just like like you. You never know!
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 11, 2016 11:35:08 GMT -5
Thanks @dan - I get that. I agree with it too. I guess I wanted to mark the occassion more than required feedback on it? But - I was nice and I did thank him and he sends me FB messages (we had already been friends & we snark at the same sort of humor). He does have a good sense of humor but if he has a dirty mind, I'd prefer to not have the particulars. It's all good - but I don't want to kiss him or anything. :-)
There are a few other candidates that I'd love a chance to kiss.
But - it's a spiritual program and I really have to help look out for my own stability & growth as well as ... if I get to have a partner from that group (or even from outside the program) - I have adjusted my focus, I guess - I need to also look out for the whole person of the guy I date. I don't want (can't have) a relationship that displaces the parts that are vitally important.
My program comes first. School next. Family (the sibling/parent one - then the Ex & stepkids one). If I can fit friends and a guy too after all that, then he's the right match.
It was a fine date but I hope for a firm offer, sometime from someone else, of: want to go on a date? If it happens, so be it. If it don't, I'll live.
Stock tip: probably ought to invest in the company called System Jo Products - I go through their Joy Toy Cleaner like mad! LOL (only kinda joking!)
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