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Post by csl on Oct 16, 2016 4:11:21 GMT -5
That's why I gave the link to first-hand stories. Plus FW's entire site is a first-hand story. Hence my challenge of absolutist statements like "Refusers never change" or "ah, she's just faking it."
People CAN change; but it takes a Damascus Road moment for it to be a real change. Like AA, I guess.
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Post by csl on Oct 15, 2016 17:49:27 GMT -5
I agree with the Never Say Never BUT in most cases the turnaround is not sustainable, it's all an act to keep the refused spouse from leaving so that the refuser is not inconvenienced by a lifestyle change. We just had a thread by a refuser explaining exactly why it's not sustainable. Um.... Eight years. She fakes it good? Or maybe, just maybe that refuser is wrong. Or maybe the posts by these refusers: forgivenwife.com/resources/your-stories/(The three by a Janna Allen? A gatekeeper/refuser for 20 years.) I would ask why one refuser's statement is taken as gospel over the statements of others disproving her.
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Post by csl on Oct 15, 2016 14:11:23 GMT -5
bballgirl: "However reading or listening to something does not make refusers change." and "Podcast, Book - no change." Never say "never." A close on-line blogging friend of mine would beg to differ. This post tells of the effect on her of reading the stories of other refused spouses: forgivenwife.com/a-moment-of-hard-truth/(I give this link fearfully, hoping she won't be spammed over it.) CSL That was 6 years ago. How is the bloggers sex life now? Having an epiphany to blog about is not a fix. Actually, that was eight years ago. The triggering event in their home was the 2008 economic collapse, of all things. FW isn't a 'mommy blogger', she a marriage and sexuality blogger, with her tag line reading "Learnibg to dance with desire." Yeah, she's gotten over herself. On her front page (as of today), the latest article is about husbands wanting 'weird' stuff and the third is telling wive's to "get flashy" for their husbands. FW has become a full-service Christian sex blogger.
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Post by csl on Oct 15, 2016 11:41:45 GMT -5
bballgirl: "However reading or listening to something does not make refusers change." and "Podcast, Book - no change." Never say "never." A close on-line blogging friend of mine would beg to differ. This post tells of the effect on her of reading the stories of other refused spouses: forgivenwife.com/a-moment-of-hard-truth/(I give this link fearfully, hoping she won't be spammed over it.) CSL
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Post by csl on Oct 15, 2016 11:26:37 GMT -5
--He responded “And what value do you get out of telling yourself that story?”
"About the same value I get out of you blaming my parents for everything."
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Post by csl on Oct 15, 2016 0:12:47 GMT -5
My advice when you get the refusal to listen to a podcast or read a book is to turn off the tv and play it or read it aloud. Walk out? Fine, retain your equanimity, but when she returns, start playing it or reading it again.
Sit on the remote, if you have too.
Basically, be a pain in the butt until they read or listen.
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Post by csl on Oct 13, 2016 15:04:37 GMT -5
Bookmarked!!
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Post by csl on Oct 13, 2016 14:39:31 GMT -5
I don't need to ask my wife "Why won't you f*ck me?"
In the past when I asked my wife about sex or intimacy her response was that since menopause she no longer had any sexual interest and that part of our life was over.
She doesn't care anything about my sexual feelings or needs or desires, which I have very strongly.
Now there is nothing left for me but resentment towards her. I will never ask her for sex again. I no longer have any sexual feelings or interest in her.
Every time I hear another story of "That part of our life is over," I remember the guy who said, "Who's going to support you then, 'cause it sure as hell won't be me!" (There was a renegotiation in that particular instance.) I've never been a fan of unilateral decrees of celibacy.
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Post by csl on Oct 13, 2016 14:34:23 GMT -5
csl , "Never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice." None of that foofaraw for me, nossir. All too often, people get by with a 5000-10000 word functional vocabulary. Sorry, but English is a gift to the world, so use it proudly.
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Post by csl on Oct 12, 2016 17:13:47 GMT -5
CSL is how I sign my posts on my blog.
C=Curmudgeonly - I am 67, and have achieved coot status, with all the benefits pertaining thereunto. Since I believe everyone is entitled to my opinion, Curmudgeonly seems to be an apropos adjective.
L=Librarian - I am a retired librarian, and as we know librarians are basically professional know-it-alls. Just ask me; I fill you in.
The S? That was an add-on. S=Sesquipedalian - which means someone given to big words. Or as I put it, someone who can squeeze 5¢ of thought into 25¢ of verbiage. After one of my posts, a reader said that she would have read my blog with a dictionary." I quipped, "Sesquipedalian is my middle name", and it stuck.
Curmudgeonly Sesquipedalian Librarian - csl
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Post by csl on Oct 12, 2016 13:21:49 GMT -5
-Me- "so why can't we address my physical needs now and have sex?
-Counselor- "our times up"
Proper response - "Well, then, we know where we'll pick up at the start of our next session, don't we?"
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Post by csl on Oct 11, 2016 11:48:00 GMT -5
Okay, I admit that my first thought was uncharitable; "So this is where all the Fridigaires congregate." So un-Christian of me.
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Post by csl on Oct 6, 2016 11:26:26 GMT -5
Actually, no. In the case of the wife who was in 28 yrs., she reported that her husband had a Damascus Road type of experience, that he changed their yearly vacation destination so that they could combine it with a men's hormonal facility. Three years after the blow-up, she reported that she had never imagined that her marriage could have been so great. The guy I know of, who I believe I mentioned once before, is the one who gave his wife an ultimatum: change or move out. She threatened divorce, but when he got the classified ads and started looking for an apartment for her, she agreed to his terms of counseling, reading a book by Dr. Laura (of all people!), and frequency of at least once a week. He reported two years afterwards that his wife kept up her part of the 'bargain' and hadn't tried to back off. It's been a while since I read the third person's account (a wife), but I seem to remember that the ultimatum of separation had long-term effect, as well. In the few turnarounds you'll see, you'll usually find an ultimatum. Counseling, date nights, endless Talks, crying, begging, and bending over backwards to please a refuser do not effect change. Saying - and meaning - unless X happens, now, this marriage is over, is the only way to reasonably expect some slim likelihood of change. And yes that means you may lose your marriage, because you have to mean it. If you're not willing to vote with your feet, it might be best to work at accepting the situation. On my blog, I have a couple of phrases that I use over and over again, like a mantra. One says "If you maintain the status quo, the status will always remain quo." The other I use so often that I've started to abbreviate it: "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got." -->> IYADWYAD, YAGWYAG.
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Post by csl on Oct 6, 2016 11:21:37 GMT -5
CSL - As baza mentioned I am one of the very few out of the EP membership who had a turnaround. As @phinheasgage asked, how long do these turnarounds last? I think it depends on how much leverage you have, how much your refuser spouse actually needs you, and how well both partners / spouses communicate with each other. In my deal, I think I had a lot of leverage, my spouse really needed me, and we also communicated well about our needs and wants... and actually listened / did things differently (with help of a counselor) when the marriage was on the line. TL2 In many cases, yes, leverage is key. But there are times when things change from other motives. One blogger I know was a refuser for a number of years. Her story is that during the economic crisis of 2008, her hubs lost is job and went into depression. Of all things she thought of that she could do to help him, sex was the idea that she had. It helps that a few months before she had been to a Christian forum and read the pain in the words of refused husbands and wives and realized what she had done to her husband. The Damascus Road experience that I keep referring to, where people see the damage that they have done and it hits them, hard.
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Post by csl on Oct 6, 2016 11:16:12 GMT -5
Brother csl. Your 3 examples of a 180, are out of how many examples of ILIASM deals ? Those are three that I cited. There is a Christian marriage forum that I participate in with others. And like here, there are many who don't do 180s. In the church, Marriage is practically imbued with deity, and so there is great pressure to knuckle under. Whether it be in the church or out of it, and even here on ISIASM, lwoetin's comment is lived out: "However if there are cases of a 180 then there are cases of 170, 150, 360.... we just choose what is a good enough deal."
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