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Post by carl on Jan 24, 2020 5:56:22 GMT -5
I have been in a sexless marriage for many years and have in the past persuaded my wife at great cost and effort to have occasional sex. Over the last while it struck me that a better way forward was to at least rule out any sex at all. That way I am not asking and she can’t refuse me. I must say it feels a thousand times better not having any sex with anyone at all than it did when I was always hopeful. It also consolidates the fact that there is a problem as my wife can’t claim to be having any sex with me ( she used to vastly exaggerate how often we did have sex. In fact she just completely lied). She does now complain that I haven’t initiated sex for ages ( time period exaggerated again). But my point is that for me axing sex completely has been a life saver. So what do people think - better to have no sex at all just to get out of that horrible situation of always hoping ?
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Post by h on Jan 24, 2020 8:40:13 GMT -5
I gave up all initiating a long while ago. That helped me feel less rejected but not totally so. What made the biggest difference was when I gave up on my expectations. Even though I wasn't technically being rejected, I still felt rejected because she wasn't initiating or really showing any interest in me at all. Now I expect absolutely nothing from her. I gave up all hope of ever being desired by her and with that, most of the daily disappointment has gone too. It's not fixable and I quit wasting my effort on trying. I still don't feel loved or desired, but I don't feel the rejection anymore. Occasionally she'll initiate because she suddenly realizes that it's been a while (usually much longer than she actually thinks) and she must feel some obligation to make a half-assed effort. I just quit hoping for it to happen so I don't feel the disappointment when it doesn't most of the time.
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 24, 2020 10:13:42 GMT -5
It’s the lesser of evils; the least-bad option.
There’s emotional relief... It may even lead to peace and a better dynamic in the relationship... but it doesn’t really solve the problem (which for many of us is not even just sex, but rather an intimate emotional bond).
As a coping mechanism, it works, but coping sucks.
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Post by deadzone75 on Jan 24, 2020 14:21:47 GMT -5
During the last "talk" that I had with my W, I proposed taking all forms of sex off the table for good. I was angry, and nothing else had ever worked, so that's what I came up with. W said she did not want to do that, probably because agreeing to it would be viewed as giving me the green light to go outsource my brains out. Even if she had agreed to my proposal, it would have meant nothing. It wouldn't make me feel any better than when I claimed to be counter-refusing. In both cases, they were fronts that gave the illusion that I had some kind of control on my end, that I was limiting something that didn't exist in the first place. "You don't ever want to have sex with me? Fine...I'm NEVER having sex with you again!" "You just turned me down for the 400th time? Fine...I'm going to refuse YOU next time!" It's like getting fired from a job and then screaming "I quit."
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 24, 2020 16:12:22 GMT -5
I have been in a sexless marriage for many years and have in the past persuaded my wife at great cost and effort to have occasional sex. Over the last while it struck me that a better way forward was to at least rule out any sex at all. That way I am not asking and she can’t refuse me. I must say it feels a thousand times better not having any sex with anyone at all than it did when I was always hopeful. It also consolidates the fact that there is a problem as my wife can’t claim to be having any sex with me ( she used to vastly exaggerate how often we did have sex. In fact she just completely lied). She does now complain that I haven’t initiated sex for ages ( time period exaggerated again). But my point is that for me axing sex completely has been a life saver. So what do people think - better to have no sex at all just to get out of that horrible situation of always hoping ? Yes. The reason is that it feels authentic to your situation. When your partner doesn't see you as a sexual partner (if they did, there's plenty of opportunity), they'd have sex with you. Ruling it out gets you closer to accepting the reality of your situation, and once you have done that, you can decide what it means for your marriage and what the next step should be.
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Post by baza on Jan 24, 2020 17:12:19 GMT -5
If you are in an ILIASM shithole, the uncertainty of all sorts of things is a killer. You don't know where you are, you don't know how it's all going to shake out, you don't know where the situation is headed to. The whole situation is out of your control.
One thing you CAN control is the level of sexual engagement you have with your spouse.
If you choose, you may cease chasing your spouse for sex, and not respond to any request for sex that your spouse might initiate. And as you say, "that is a better way forward, to rule out any sex at all"
That, will give you certainty over this particular issue. In fact it will take the issue of marital sex off the table completely.
In and of itself, adopting this counter-refusing position will NOT do anything much about the core problem (of being in an ILIASM shithole) but it certainly will get you back in control of your marital sex life. And that could be a start in reclaiming yourself.
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Post by lessingham on Jan 25, 2020 4:23:25 GMT -5
It's a bit like the balding guys who shave off all their hair. They proclaim they are not bald, they choose to have no hair. But they are and they are ignoring the problem. Same here methinks, you are not sexless, you choose to refuse to ask. Same same, but different as the Thai bargirls say.
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Post by carl on Jan 26, 2020 1:31:07 GMT -5
@deadzone I had never quite been fired which would have been better. Instead I was kept on to work for next to nothing. It feels so much better not buying into the whole sex deal at all at the moment. My wife doesn’t like that sex is off the table but it totally empowers me.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 26, 2020 7:33:41 GMT -5
It feels so much better not buying into the whole sex deal at all at the moment. My wife doesn’t like that sex is off the table but it totally empowers me. My read is that she doesn't really care much that the sex is off the table. What has her riled is that it totally empowers you, that's what she doesn't like.
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Post by isthisit on Jan 26, 2020 11:04:58 GMT -5
I have been in a sexless marriage for many years and have in the past persuaded my wife at great cost and effort to have occasional sex. Over the last while it struck me that a better way forward was to at least rule out any sex at all. That way I am not asking and she can’t refuse me. I must say it feels a thousand times better not having any sex with anyone at all than it did when I was always hopeful. It also consolidates the fact that there is a problem as my wife can’t claim to be having any sex with me ( she used to vastly exaggerate how often we did have sex. In fact she just completely lied). She does now complain that I haven’t initiated sex for ages ( time period exaggerated again). But my point is that for me axing sex completely has been a life saver. So what do people think - better to have no sex at all just to get out of that horrible situation of always hoping ? I understand the empowerment which comes from removing sex from the table, but I have a few questions. Apologies if these seem intrusive. So carl when your W complains that you have not initiated for ages are you not tempted to suggest that she let you know when she is in the mood? This doesn’t sound unreasonable in an equitable and loving union. How would she respond to this do you think? Also, if your W did initiate would you decline her or perceive this as a genuine attempt at intimacy? I presume that this is what you wish for as you choose to stay, but wonder if you prefer the ‘control’ of the situation.
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Post by nyctos on Jan 26, 2020 12:56:53 GMT -5
I gave up all initiating a long while ago. That helped me feel less rejected but not totally so. What made the biggest difference was when I gave up on my expectations. Even though I wasn't technically being rejected, I still felt rejected because she wasn't initiating or really showing any interest in me at all. Now I expect absolutely nothing from her. I gave up all hope of ever being desired by her and with that, most of the daily disappointment has gone too. It's not fixable and I quit wasting my effort on trying. I still don't feel loved or desired, but I don't feel the rejection anymore. Occasionally she'll initiate because she suddenly realizes that it's been a while (usually much longer than she actually thinks) and she must feel some obligation to make a half-assed effort. I just quit hoping for it to happen so I don't feel the disappointment when it doesn't most of the time. When she does initiate, do you accept? I think I'm about at a point where I couldn't. I'd feel manipulated and disturbed at this point if she tried to kiss me. Still, I don't know -- it might be hard to resist.
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Post by h on Jan 26, 2020 17:50:25 GMT -5
I gave up all initiating a long while ago. That helped me feel less rejected but not totally so. What made the biggest difference was when I gave up on my expectations. Even though I wasn't technically being rejected, I still felt rejected because she wasn't initiating or really showing any interest in me at all. Now I expect absolutely nothing from her. I gave up all hope of ever being desired by her and with that, most of the daily disappointment has gone too. It's not fixable and I quit wasting my effort on trying. I still don't feel loved or desired, but I don't feel the rejection anymore. Occasionally she'll initiate because she suddenly realizes that it's been a while (usually much longer than she actually thinks) and she must feel some obligation to make a half-assed effort. I just quit hoping for it to happen so I don't feel the disappointment when it doesn't most of the time. When she does initiate, do you accept? I think I'm about at a point where I couldn't. I'd feel manipulated and disturbed at this point if she tried to kiss me. Still, I don't know -- it might be hard to resist. I have never refused her unless I was seriously physically unable to due to back spasms or injuries. Even in those cases where I was unable to have intercourse, I always offered to satisfy her in other ways but she always rejected that. I'm still not going to turn her down because I believe that is my responsibility as a husband for as long as I still am married. I won't refuse until we get to the point where I officially ask for a divorce.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 27, 2020 10:09:49 GMT -5
It's a bit like the balding guys who shave off all their hair. They proclaim they are not bald, they choose to have no hair. But they are and they are ignoring the problem. Same here methinks, you are not sexless, you choose to refuse to ask. Same same, but different as the Thai bargirls say. I'm not sure I'm quite onside with the way that's framed. My procrastination in shaving my cranium was based on my ignoring the problem and not taking a realistic view of it. I went as long as I could with hair product and various stylings, until I saw myself in an elevator ceiling mirror and I finally decided to accept my new reality. Shaving it was not ignoring the problem - but rather looking straight at it, accepting it, and making a decision to drastically change the way I look - to others and in my self-conception. It looks stronger. And I've never met anyone who did this who says they aren't bald. What would be the point of that? Same with a celibate marriage and the honesty about that in this thread.
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Post by carl on Jan 27, 2020 19:13:03 GMT -5
I have been in a sexless marriage for many years and have in the past persuaded my wife at great cost and effort to have occasional sex. Over the last while it struck me that a better way forward was to at least rule out any sex at all. That way I am not asking and she can’t refuse me. I must say it feels a thousand times better not having any sex with anyone at all than it did when I was always hopeful. It also consolidates the fact that there is a problem as my wife can’t claim to be having any sex with me ( she used to vastly exaggerate how often we did have sex. In fact she just completely lied). She does now complain that I haven’t initiated sex for ages ( time period exaggerated again). But my point is that for me axing sex completely has been a life saver. So what do people think - better to have no sex at all just to get out of that horrible situation of always hoping ? I understand the empowerment which comes from removing sex from the table, but I have a few questions. Apologies if these seem intrusive. So carl when your W complains that you have not initiated for ages are you not tempted to suggest that she let you know when she is in the mood? This doesn’t sound unreasonable in an equitable and loving union. How would she respond to this do you think? Also, if your W did initiate would you decline her or perceive this as a genuine attempt at intimacy? I presume that this is what you wish for as you choose to stay, but wonder if you prefer the ‘control’ of the situation. Thank you for your reply and interest. Having control over this part of my life has made me feel so very much happier. I am amazed at how much better I feel. I don’t want to get involved in sex again with anyone until I am sure it won’t lead to so much misery. I might have been in a different situation to others here in that I had allowed myself to become ever so manipulated by my desire for sex and living with the one person I could morally have sex with. I can’t really remember how or when I became so controlled but in any case my wife took things way too far for too long. It’s a great shame for her to have behaved like that in my opinion. It happened so gradually and I just thought that most men did stuff for their wives in a loving way. So it didn’t seem odd. But before long I was working all hours, borrowing money, not speaking to people she didn’t want me too all in the desperate hope of getting our marriage back on track. Obviously I knew things weren’t right. So I want to talk to my wife about all this before ever being involved sexually again. In my opinion what she did was wrong and I want her to show me that she doesn’t see sex as a tool for gaining power or control over a man. I personally don’t find that acceptable. I believe people should treat each other kindly and equally. I maybe can’t be as sexually attractive as my wife or most other women. What can I do about that. Nothing. But I can choose to wait until my wife respects me before thinking about having sex with her. I know your situation is quite different and I must admit I don’t naturally understand it all that easily. Maybe it just seems so different. I need to get better at seeing things from others perspective. How has it been so far you since you separated. Are you happier now at all ? Did you meet anyone you liked or felt interested in sharing your future with ..?
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 28, 2020 10:34:45 GMT -5
carl, does your wife value the marriage (whether the institution, the conveniences, or you)? Enough that if you went to her with a game plan to improve it, that she’d be receptive? I.e., framing the discussion more like “I value our marriage but I need it to be more than it is”, which opens the door to discuss what you’d hope to improve (e.g., genuine intimacy) and the behaviors that are preventing this or even damaging the marriage. Like I said above, coping doesn’t fix anything, it’s just a way to accept a bad reality. It’s a solution if you don’t want to leave and she doesn’t want to change, but you'd only want to pick it after exhausting the options for change.
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