catsloveme
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Dwelling in the possible
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 7, 2018 20:58:35 GMT -5
Husband and I have set a time to discuss things tomorrow morning. I’m dreading the conversation. But in an odd way I’m also looking forward to being able to say some things that have been weighing on me as well as to ask him some questions.
I also feel exhausted just thinking about it. And I don’t know what outcome I’m hoping for anymore, except for clarity. I love him and don’t want our marriage to end but I also have little hope that things will change. It all makes me feel so sad and stuck—both feelings are counter to who I am and how I try to live my life.
I’m hoping for clarity and understanding and a constructive conversation. Do any of you have any tips or advice to share?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 21:13:56 GMT -5
Communication is always good, catsloveme. Don't get angry. But do let him know how hurt you are, without blaming him. Use "I" sentences (I feel like, I am hurt by) rather than "You" (You do this, you hurt me.) When he makes a point, try to repeat it in your own words and ask if you got it right. But make sure ahead of time you know the main message you want to get across. If you don't have it clear in your head, it might be a good idea to postpone the talk.
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Post by baza on Jul 7, 2018 21:56:25 GMT -5
It's best to have your legal advice, exit strategy, support network, and a plan to shepherd any kids through a 'worst case' scenario before you embark upon "the talk". But I am figuring that you have NOT got things in do-able shape yet. Under those circumstances, I just have this rather broad guideline - do not say anything that you are not prepared to do. Don't get provoked into saying anything you are not prepared to do either. Your credibility - that if you say something then your spouse can take it to the bank as fact - is, potentially, the best tool you have in negotiating your way forward. Good luck Sister catsloveme - and don't say anything you don't mean.
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 7, 2018 22:17:03 GMT -5
Communication is always good, catsloveme. Don't get angry. But do let him know how hurt you are, without blaming him. Use "I" sentences (I feel like, I am hurt by) rather than "You" (You do this, you hurt me.) When he makes a point, try to repeat it in your own words and ask if you got it right. But make sure ahead of time you know the main message you want to get across. If you don't have it clear in your head, it might be a good idea to postpone the talk. Thank you. All good reminders. My main message for tomorrow is to convey the effect that our SM has on me and that there must be a resolution. I want him to be a part of figuring out what that resolution is. I realize I may be setting myself up for a huge disappointment. We have a history of talking (ad nauseum) and making plans to change things and then not following through. Fourteen years of this. I’m looking at tomorrow as the first step in resolving this, finally, one way or another. This time, I am not going to back down.
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 7, 2018 22:26:31 GMT -5
It's best to have your legal advice, exit strategy, support network, and a plan to shepherd any kids through a 'worst case' scenario before you embark upon "the talk". But I am figuring that you have NOT got things in do-able shape yet. Under those circumstances, I just have this rather broad guideline - do not say anything that you are not prepared to do. Don't get provoked into saying anything you are not prepared to do either. Your credibility - that if you say something then your spouse can take it to the bank as fact - is, potentially, the best tool you have in negotiating your way forward. Good luck Sister catsloveme - and don't say anything you don't mean. Thanks, Baza. I’m hoping that tomorrow’s conversation and the actions—or inaction—in the days and weeks to come will help me decide what path forward I need to take.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 22:26:36 GMT -5
In that case, catsloveme, you need make sure that the conversation results in a plan. If he promises to make love to you more, ask him for measurable goals - once a week? Once a month? What happens when it doesn't happen? Make sure he knows that the status quo is unacceptable to you. If you want to spend more time together doing fun things, again, pin him down to concrete goals. And if you are worried that he will get out of it somehow, then set up a followup meeting a month or two from now, on a specific date, where the conversation can continue. His credibility is on the line as well. Good luck!
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 7, 2018 22:30:52 GMT -5
catsloveme, good suggestions thus far. To misssunnybunny’s point, talk in terms of how the situation (his actions or inactions) makes you feel, and how you internalize his behavior and disinterest. He can’t dispute how it impacts you; he will argue if you start finger-pointing. The goal here isn’t to assign blame, but to motivate change. “When I do X and you respond with Y, it makes me feel Z.” “But, I don’t do that.” “That’s not how it feels to me.” An evolved male will clue in that he’s either *is* doing it or he’s telegraphing it, and either way it’s a problem that he needs to take an active role in fixing. Suggestion: keyword is “intimacy”. Focus on “sex” and you’re likely to be no better off when he “solves” it with duty sex. Personally, I try to organize my thoughts and distill them to a theme - a short soundbite that you can stick to. A la, “The lack of intimacy is really eating at me. This is not what I need our marriage to be.” Keep all your points relevant to this theme. This will require sacrificing some topics from the discussion in order to stay focused on the core message that’s most important to you. You might be burned out about him leaving laundry on the floor and never taking the trash out, but if your biggest need is intimacy then stay focused on that and leave the other battles for another time.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 7, 2018 22:35:39 GMT -5
... set up a followup meeting a month or two from now, on a specific date, where the conversation can continue. This +1. catsloveme, if you two have a history of not following through, set the follow-up discussion at the close of this one. I think 4 weeks is just about right to give things a chance to change, but not let it freewheel for too long.
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Post by baza on Jul 7, 2018 22:39:44 GMT -5
It's best to have your legal advice, exit strategy, support network, and a plan to shepherd any kids through a 'worst case' scenario before you embark upon "the talk". But I am figuring that you have NOT got things in do-able shape yet. Under those circumstances, I just have this rather broad guideline - do not say anything that you are not prepared to do. Don't get provoked into saying anything you are not prepared to do either. Your credibility - that if you say something then your spouse can take it to the bank as fact - is, potentially, the best tool you have in negotiating your way forward. Good luck Sister catsloveme - and don't say anything you don't mean. Thanks, Baza. I’m hoping that tomorrow’s conversation and the actions—or inaction—in the days and weeks to come will help me decide what path forward I need to take. Then I think that ASAP after this discussion you really need to get that legal advice about how a divorce would shake out for you, exit strategy plan, shoring up of your support network, how you shepherd kids (if any) through the process etc, into do-able shape. Hopefully, you won't need these things, but if the collective evidence of this group means anything, it is highly probable that you WILL need these things as your process unfolds.
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Post by misssunnybunny on Jul 7, 2018 22:55:50 GMT -5
I think I managed to delete my post (thumbs and small phone screen don't match well sometimes!). But do be clear, direct, and to the point. Let him know how it affects you and how it makes you feel. If you need to write it out to stay on point and remember everything, do so. Best of luck to you. Keep us posted on progress, or if you need some virtual hugs!
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 8, 2018 10:50:24 GMT -5
Keep this in the back of your mind, you will get what you want. You will receive a confirmation, one way or the other.
The next step is the most difficult one. What actions are You going to take for YOUR well being?
Stay humble. Very seldom do these times seem to make sense. Think of the times in your life when "nothing seemed right" now when you look back you realize, " those times taught me things so I can move forward, and be a better me!"
You may want to take notes afterwards so you can look back on ,what you said verses his reactions and how both of you handle it.
All a learning experience. We fear we are not good enough to be loved. Do not be afraid, whatever lack you have, step into a new season, knowing you are a beautiful woman with many gifts and pleasures to be welcomed and cherished by many others!
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 8, 2018 11:03:45 GMT -5
So? How did it go?
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Post by shamwow on Jul 8, 2018 13:16:09 GMT -5
Husband and I have set a time to discuss things tomorrow morning. I’m dreading the conversation. But in an odd way I’m also looking forward to being able to say some things that have been weighing on me as well as to ask him some questions. I also feel exhausted just thinking about it. And I don’t know what outcome I’m hoping for anymore, except for clarity. I love him and don’t want our marriage to end but I also have little hope that things will change. It all makes me feel so sad and stuck—both feelings are counter to who I am and how I try to live my life. I’m hoping for clarity and understanding and a constructive conversation. Do any of you have any tips or advice to share? If you don't know what outcome you're hoping for it's best NOT to have the conversation. Venting general frustration is one thing but if you don't know where you want the conversation to lead its best to pause until you do. Once you know what you want, figure out a plan to get there. If there is no way to get there then you may need to reconsider what you want and focus it on what is actually possible rather than what you desparately want. I know that isn't what you're looking for but once you start lighting fuses there is no way of predicting what happens next.
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Post by shamwow on Jul 8, 2018 13:19:10 GMT -5
Communication is always good, catsloveme. Don't get angry. But do let him know how hurt you are, without blaming him. Use "I" sentences (I feel like, I am hurt by) rather than "You" (You do this, you hurt me.) When he makes a point, try to repeat it in your own words and ask if you got it right. But make sure ahead of time you know the main message you want to get across. If you don't have it clear in your head, it might be a good idea to postpone the talk. Thank you. All good reminders. My main message for tomorrow is to convey the effect that our SM has on me and that there must be a resolution. I want him to be a part of figuring out what that resolution is. I realize I may be setting myself up for a huge disappointment. We have a history of talking (ad nauseum) and making plans to change things and then not following through. Fourteen years of this. I’m looking at tomorrow as the first step in resolving this, finally, one way or another. This time, I am not going to back down. Gently I ask what the "resolution" is in your mind? If you cannot articulate it, he can never live up to it. He might not be able to live up to it anyway, but it will not be because you were unable to communicate it clearly.
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 8, 2018 15:33:09 GMT -5
Our conversation went well, I think. I explained in detail how our SM has affected/ is affecting me without beating him over the head with it. I got a little bit emotional, but not angry. I said that I needed him to clearly communicate where he is at and what he is feeling and not leave me to guess at the “why”. He listened carefully and we talked about the “why”. We also talked about some of the things he is facing right now. It was an open and honest reality check for both of us. Maybe not things either of us want to hear, but a place to start working together to figure out how to get to a place where we’re both reasonably satisfied.
I realize that I’ve been vague about particulars. I’ll share a little more as context. He has deep-seated issues with intimacy, most likely due to being sexually abused as a young child. For whatever reason, getting married triggered his fear of intimacy. Before marriage, we had an active sex life. After—nothing. I learned a few years after we married that this same dynamic played out in his first marriage. So I cognitively understand that it’s not me or anything particular about me. But I am still hurt and suffer the rejection and consequences and am still subject to self doubt, resentment, anger, indignation, anxiety, impatience, frustration, and a whole host of other negative feelings.
He knows that I’ve been working very hard at healing my own (other) issues over the past couple of years—taking care of my physical and mental health, quitting drinking, dealing with some old problems, etc. I have been on a mission to become a “whole, healthy, happy me”, and he has been supportive of my growth. I think he understands the depth of how our lack of intimacy has affected me—and this morning I reiterated that. I was very clear that being celibate is not acceptable to me. And that it isn’t just sex, but about sharing that closeness and that particular kind of bond.
He says he feels that he has been selfish in making us play his game, as he termed it, and that it isn’t fair to me. He isn’t happy about the lack of intimacy either but is ruled by his fear. And that is compounded by aging (he is older) and a back injury that has caused him to be unable to exercise. We talked about modified exercise and how he can get back to some kind of regular routine and how that might help him on a lot of levels.
We also talked about my role in our SM/lack of intimacy. I have retreated and have not stood my ground in advocating for what I need. To him, this makes it appear that I’m okay with how things are. He needs to overcome his fear of intimacy and I need to overcome my fear of rejection. I let things go on unresolved for so long because I didn’t think I was strong enough to deal with the inevitable hurt and rejection.
And so we begin with baby steps. I need more touch, more closeness. We snuggled in bed for a while. It felt okay to both of us. But after we got up he started saying that he felt like he’d disappointed me. I reassured him that I was not disappointed and reminded him to please ask me what I feel and then take what I say at face value and assume best intent rather than trying to second-guess me. (We have a history of doing that and it just leads to trouble. And negative self talk creates negative outcomes.)
What’s next? Keeping the dialogue going. Continuing the baby steps. We both want things to improve. I don’t know what the ultimate outcome will be. We both want a complete marriage. That is our first choice. And so, with that goal in mind, he says he is going to quit drinking and that if we can’t get to a place where we both feel like we’re making progress and things are moving in the right direction he will go back into counseling.
There are some obvious additional conversations that we need to have. I imagine the first question all of you wise people will ask is about my timeline followed closely by what my “plan b” is if things don’t improve. I do have thoughts about those things, but my primary goal at the moment was to have this conversation and try to get things moving, get the dialogue opened...
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