catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 8, 2018 15:41:14 GMT -5
shamwow, you asked “Gently I ask what the "resolution" is in your mind? If you cannot articulate it, he can never live up to it. He might not be able to live up to it anyway, but it will not be because you were unable to communicate it clearly.” The ideal resolution in my mind is that we reestablish a level of intimacy (and a sexual frequency) that we are both happy with. The good news is that he feels the same way. If he can’t live up to that or we cannot come to an agreement then we will need to work something out so that I can get my needs met. I don’t want to delve too far into that at the moment but it something that is on the back of my mind. I think it’s in the back of his too, frankly.
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 8, 2018 15:50:56 GMT -5
Keep this in the back of your mind, you will get what you want. You will receive a confirmation, one way or the other. The next step is the most difficult one. What actions are You going to take for YOUR well being? Stay humble. Very seldom do these times seem to make sense. Think of the times in your life when "nothing seemed right" now when you look back you realize, " those times taught me things so I can move forward, and be a better me!" You may want to take notes afterwards so you can look back on ,what you said verses his reactions and how both of you handle it. All a learning experience. We fear we are not good enough to be loved. Do not be afraid, whatever lack you have, step into a new season, knowing you are a beautiful woman with many gifts and pleasures to be welcomed and cherished by many others! Thank you for your supportive and kind words. You asked what I am going to do for my own well being... I am going to continue on my path of trying to be my best me, to be healthy physically, emotionally, mentally, and to seek joy and understanding in my daily life, and to be present and open. I will speak my truth quietly and gently. That’s the high-level description. There’s a whole lot of concrete daily action behind all that. Something I’ve been working at for a couple of years now.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 8, 2018 16:24:00 GMT -5
Well, catsloveme, you’ve at least made it through the first challenge - being able to have a 2-way conversation about it. Without that, no repair is possible. That said, this is not the sort of thing that is very reparable. Progress takes years, and “success” is something less than what most of us would consider a normal attitude toward intimacy. Keep your expectations realistic. The next milestone will be if actions follow his words.
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 8, 2018 16:33:22 GMT -5
Well, catsloveme, you’ve at least made it through the first challenge - being able to have a 2-way conversation about it. Without that, no repair is possible. That said, this is not the sort of thing that is very reparable. Progress takes years, and “success” is something less than what most of us would consider a normal attitude toward intimacy. Keep your expectations realistic. The next milestone will be if actions follow his words. Indeed, DryCreek, indeed.
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Post by baza on Jul 8, 2018 17:31:44 GMT -5
Well Sister catsloveme , you have succeeded in opening the dialogue, and it reads like you didn't say anything you aren't prepared to do. So at this point, you have maintained your cred - and that's a good thing. Now, the issue appears to be "exactly what ARE you prepared to do ?" and "under what circumstances are you prepared to do it ?" And you'll need to have the answers to those questions pretty much solid in your mind for when the dialogue is resumed.
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Post by shamwow on Jul 8, 2018 18:06:44 GMT -5
shamwow, you asked “Gently I ask what the "resolution" is in your mind? If you cannot articulate it, he can never live up to it. He might not be able to live up to it anyway, but it will not be because you were unable to communicate it clearly.” The ideal resolution in my mind is that we reestablish a level of intimacy (and a sexual frequency) that we are both happy with. The good news is that he feels the same way. If he can’t live up to that or we cannot come to an agreement then we will need to work something out so that I can get my needs met. I don’t want to delve too far into that at the moment but it something that is on the back of my mind. I think it’s in the back of his too, frankly. Glad to hear you started the conversation. The next question is did you both agree why the level of intimacy is? The easiest way is as you discussed, frequency. X times per x time period is something mesurable. Of course if he is just fucking you for a couple minutes with no desire to get off, that would also meet the terms. And leave you back at square one. And if you didn't set specific targets? Well then he can just say you're not clear and cannot be satisfied. It's good you didn't seem to offer any ultimatums you aren't willing to follow through on. On balance, better to have a hard conversation. Just don't expect it to be the final one.
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Post by baza on Jul 8, 2018 19:17:55 GMT -5
Quoting you here Sister catsloveme (and second guessing you too !) - "If he can’t live up to that or we cannot come to an agreement then we will need to work something out so that I can get my needs met. I don’t want to delve too far into that at the moment but it something that is on the back of my mind. I think it’s in the back of his too, frankly." It reads like you are considering the highly adventurous cheating option. That is a perfectly valid choice - and is invariably a huge game changer. It has the potential to fly off at unpredictable tangents...many of which can tip your primary relationship over (which longer term might not necessarily be such a bad thing) But it is not a course for the faint-hearted, and collapsing your primary relationship is a very real possibility as a consequence. So if you are considering this (perfectly valid) choice, it is smart to prepare just like you were planning to divorce. If it turns out that your plan isn't needed, that's great. But if things go pear-shaped, you do not want to be in a position of scrambling around for legal advice etc under that sort of pressure.
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Post by tirefire on Jul 8, 2018 19:49:14 GMT -5
catsloveme, just a thought but have you thought about whether you still actually want to have sex with Mr. Catz? I ask because I think a few of us have wanted sex, been unhappy with the lack of sex with the spouse only to realize that they aren't attached anymore because the relationship has changed. Would you be truly excited if he called you up to the bedroom right now or would it be awkward and meh? Think carefully about what you want. It might save you previous months of your life as you skip right past some of the steps to tearing things down and rebuilding your life.
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Post by solodriver on Jul 8, 2018 21:17:28 GMT -5
Hi Cats,
BTW, I have 3 cats that do love me and are with me providing me comfort when I sleep.
I'm a little late for this, but I just did the very same thing yesterday with my refuser wife. And I did follow the Baza rules of not saying anything that I was not willing to back up at the moment. Here is what happened to me and how the talk went.
Well today, my wife and I had a talk. This talk was the final talk I'm having with her regarding our marriage relationship.
I laid it all out about the rejection, the 18 years of sexless marriage, the 5 years of no affection , kisses, hugs or "I love you" either spoken or in cards I've received from her. I strongly suggested couples' counseling, which she rejected and then I suggested that we work with a book that I found positive for couples in crisis such as ourselves. We could work on a chapter a week until we completed all the exercises. She said she was not ready for that yet. She said she needed baby steps to be taken to work on this and that we could set aside Sunday afternoons to discuss our weekly action plans.
Update: Today is Sunday and no discussion has taken place. So at this point I'm leaving it up to her on that portion of the plan. If she forgets or chooses to ignore it, I will not be bugging her about it. That will tell me EXACTLY where she stands with it.
Some not so hopeful things came out of the discussion this afternoon. When I suggested that at some point maybe we could be more comfortable with me sleeping with her in the bedroom again, she said No to that. Another thing that makes the outcome not very hopeful was when I asked if she still loved me. She said "I don't know". I told her that I still did love her, because if I didn't, we wouldn't be having this conservation and that I would have already packed and left. The last thing that was not helping me feel very hopeful was at the end of the conservation I asked if we could hug, something we haven't done once in the past 5 years. She said "Sure". When I reached around to her hug her, she left her arms down by her side. She might as well said No or punched me in the stomach as to what she actually did.
We didn't have any more discussions the remainder of the evening except for her telling me dinner was ready.
My time line is now set. If there is very little or no progress towards reestablishing a relationship by January 7, 2019, we will be having "The Talk".(separation/divorce) If there is progress, but not significant progress by July 7, 2019, that is the final date I will stay in this marriage and we will be having "The Talk" on that day.
I picked these dates so I can do as Baza suggests and seek legal advice, housing arrangements, time to get my job stabilized and financial affairs in better shape. But after what happened tonight, I will no longer attempt or hope to engage in any sort of intimacy with her. If she wants intimacy, she will have to initiate it. Again, if nothing happens in the next 6 to 12 months, that's it. But I'm not getting my hopes up at all. I fully expect nothing will happen. That way if she does choose to engage, it will be a surprise for me, but if it doesn't I will not feel any worse than I already do. I know, it might be "reset" sex. Only time will tell. But no matter what, the clock continues to tick. 6-12 months is all that is left to recover this relationship. I'm not waiting for an undisclosed amount of time while she tries to figure out what she wants. She knows exactly what I want and need. I don't know if she will ever be capable of making me happy again, but she has to at least put forth some significant effort. And anytime between the next 6-12 months we reach an impasse on working on this, I'm done. I'm unwilling to continue to stay in this marriage. Tomorrow starts the clock to see what she can do to help recover this marriage. I'm willing to work if she is.
I struggle with the thought I will let my wife down if I decide we are not going anywhere and I leave. But I have passion, desires and needs that I want to share with someone for the remainder of my life and I know someone out there would love and appreciate me and be able to share their wants, needs, passion and desires with me as well. That thought is what drives me to get out of bed every day and go forward.
And if I meet her tomorrow, and the spark is ignited, I will enjoy giving and receiving what I'm so desperately needing, which might push my timeline sooner.
After 18 years, I'm ready to lose my virginity again.
That's how my talk went and where I'm at with my refuser.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 8, 2018 21:35:05 GMT -5
“I laid it all out about the rejection, the 18 years of sexless marriage, the 5 years of no affection , kisses, hugs or "I love you" either spoken or in cards I've received from her. I strongly suggested couples' counseling, which she rejected and then I suggested that we work with a book that I found positive for couples in crisis such as ourselves. We could work on a chapter a week until we completed all the exercises. She said she was not ready for that yet. She said she needed baby steps to be taken to work on this and that we could set aside Sunday afternoons to discuss...”
Actions speak loud. 18 years of sm. 5 years of no affection. Wife refuses counseling, won’t even hug, says she doesn’t know if she loves you. Why are you planning to prolong your agony til next year when her actions clearly state she does not love you the way spouses are expected to love each other?
Do you honestly expect things will change?
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Post by javba on Jul 8, 2018 21:35:17 GMT -5
Guys, Girls Love yourself first. You cannot care for others if you cannot care for yourself first.
Putting yourself first is not selfishness unless all your rewards are deferred to hereafter.
After 20 yrs of which 18 are fuckless, the cost has been beyond my ability to pay.
Good luck NWB Chi IL
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 8, 2018 21:42:52 GMT -5
"I struggle with the thought I will let my wife down if I decide we are not going anywhere and I leave. " What about the 18 YEARS she let you down solodriver?
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Post by javba on Jul 8, 2018 21:56:16 GMT -5
Once again If you're not putting your needs as a priority, it's pointless to expect anyone else will.
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Post by solodriver on Jul 8, 2018 22:11:00 GMT -5
“I laid it all out about the rejection, the 18 years of sexless marriage, the 5 years of no affection , kisses, hugs or "I love you" either spoken or in cards I've received from her. I strongly suggested couples' counseling, which she rejected and then I suggested that we work with a book that I found positive for couples in crisis such as ourselves. We could work on a chapter a week until we completed all the exercises. She said she was not ready for that yet. She said she needed baby steps to be taken to work on this and that we could set aside Sunday afternoons to discuss...” Actions speak loud. 18 years of sm. 5 years of no affection. Wife refuses counseling, won’t even hug, says she doesn’t know if she loves you. Why are you planning to prolong your agony til next year when her actions clearly state she does not love you the way spouses are expected to love each other? Do you honestly expect things will change? NSM, no I don't expect it to change at all, but now I've told her exactly what is making me unhappy and giving her the chance to address it. This way when I'm ready to pull the plug she can't say "What, you never gave me a warning that you were unhappy or a chance to fix it".
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Post by ironhamster on Jul 8, 2018 22:14:30 GMT -5
I think it is reasonable to do things in an orderly fashion, so that we and others can say that we did everything we could, even if the end result is the same.
I am not trying to sound hypocritical, either. Reaching a point where you know it is hopeless and over and acting like it is also a valid option.
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