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Post by shamwow on Jun 23, 2018 13:12:56 GMT -5
“And as an aside: Today's our anniversary. BAHAHA oh the irony.” Today would be my 39th anniversary. Six years ago on this day it was just a few days after I told my h I wanted a divorce. In Zjune 23 I was appearing in a cabaret playing a bride. About a year later, I’d be in s relationship with the guy who is now my partner. Radiant about divorcing, I’d walked into rehearsal, announced I was getting divorced, hadn’t been laid in 8 years, and was looking for love. The cast was majority gay or I’d never had said that. But apparently, I said it loud enough so my now lover on the other side of the room heard, wondered why I wasn’t considering him, and he started checking me out. Slowly. 6 months later, he asked me out on s date two months later..... And 6 years ago on this day, I was saying "I Do" on our back deck and then walking down the stairs towards the tent as "our song" played then turning around to see that my new husband hadn't even followed me down the stairs to walk together, he was still up on the deck talking to his brother/best man. I walked into that tent alone and then was promptly surrounded by family and friends. Pretty good metaphor for what is happening now as well. I'm even more grateful today for my support network. My divorce was finalized by the court on our 20th anniversary to the day.
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Post by shamwow on Jun 23, 2018 13:17:16 GMT -5
Yes you are right northstarmom that this is divorce not a separation and certainly not a “trial separation” as he’s been calling it. But I need to handle H with kid-gloves a bit right now because he’s a mess. I don’t think he could handle that at the moment so I need to wait a bit before I can encourage him to confront our actual reality. And yes greatcoastal, I do have an eye on him regarding suicidal thoughts. I know that unfortunately he has had them previously, back when we were going through some really challenging times (death of our first child and then trying to come to terms with all the medical issues of our living child’s disability), and I am a bit worried about that with him right now. I was able to steer him towards talking to SOMEONE and he’ll be going to his mom’s today to talk with her. I’m grateful for that. He really needs to confide in someone and his regular therapists are BOTH away on vacation until after the 4th of July which is terrible timing ☹️ Once he seems a bit more stable I hope to be able to gently guide this process towards him understanding what really needs to be done and what we’re truly confronting right now. And it’s not a “trial separation “. And if he does not become more stable? Your husband's mental health is still your CONCERN. After all, he is the father of your child. However, his mental health is no longer your RESPONSIBILITY. HIS mental health is HIS responsibility. YOUR responsibility is for yourself and your 3 year old child. That, I suspect you will find, is quite enough of a handful to manage by itself. If I seem blunt on this one it is because it took me far, far too long to understand this simple fact.
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Post by shamwow on Jun 23, 2018 13:19:43 GMT -5
I heard from H. He said he is "not ready to talk about it with his mom yet" so basically, he chickened out. Over the last couple days I have suggested 4 people in his life that I think could be good options to talk to but he had a reason why not for all of them. I agree with northstarmom that my role cannot be as support person for him right now so I will just have to walk a fine line and be a bit of a hard-ass while still showing empathy for him. And I DO have empathy. I can only imagine how much it must SUCK for him right now to feel he has absolutely no one to talk to about this. It is a very sad situation. Meanwhile, I have a massive support system and have already reached out to a ton of people. It's possible that that's the reason I sound so "stable", greatcoastal. And as an aside: Today's our anniversary. BAHAHA oh the irony. He absolutely has someone to talk about this right now. His mom. He chose not to. I assume he has a friend or two. If not he should start making some.
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 23, 2018 13:41:39 GMT -5
Unlike most here, I didn’t find iliasm or its precursor until a week after my divorce. Thus, I basically muddled through on my own since I could not benefit from the collective wisdom here. If I had found earlier, I probably would have gotten divorced on the college plan instead of a year after my younger son finished college.
I emailed a letter to my h on a Sunday telling him I wanted a divorce. He was in Asia working for the summer and I was in the states so I had access to all of the bank accounts I knew he had and I had access to all of his papers. I also was the only person in a good situation to get a lawyer.
The next day, I used the internet to contact friends who were lawyers or had divorced. I got their recommendations for good divorce lawyers. I did not know that in my area first visits are free. I was prepared to pay whatever it took to get the best lawyer. I wanted to protect myself so I got a fair settlement. I was not trying to ruin my h. I just didn’t trust him. I feared he had been hiding money abroad, something I still think he did though I could never prove it.
I got free consultations from 2 lawyers. One said he was getting ready to retire and didn’t want to take a case that might be complicated due to the potential search for hidden money. The other was a woman who had handled my friend’s divorce well. The lawyer also had had to deal with a contentious divorce from her own lawyer husband. She had dedicated her practice to helping women get fair (not vindictive) settlements. I picked her. I think the retainer was $5k and the total cost ended up being $10k, which I think my ex — who never chose to get a lawyer— paid.
When my h came back to the US we agreed to live like roommates for financial reasons until the divorce was final. We deliberately took a year to divorce. That was so I could stay on his insurance until he retired and moved to Asia.
As soon as I decided to divorce, I made an appointment with my former therapist so I had that kind of support. I also told my friends, who rallied wonderfully including helping me figure out my financial needs and helping me focus on myself, not taking responsibility for my husband’s emotional state, relationships with our kids, etc. they h loved me let go of my role as the family’s relationship tender.
For at least 5 years before the divorce, I had been living a very independent life participating in recreational groups, trips, friendships without my h, who was less social than I am. Thus, I had a good support network and fairly fulfilled life. I also had done a lot of grieving over my marriage. Deciding to divorce was for me a relief. While I cared for my h, it was like a friend or brother not a romantic love. Deciding to divorce was a relief because I realized that spending the rest of my life single and not romantically involved would be better than clinging to a dead marriage.
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 23, 2018 13:43:48 GMT -5
What shammy said: “He absolutely has someone to talk about this right now. His mom. ”
He has also for years selfishly allowed you to be miserable due to his asexuality. I doubt he spent much time being concerned about your unhappiness.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 23, 2018 14:20:58 GMT -5
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Post by shamwow on Jun 23, 2018 15:00:34 GMT -5
I do still have those spreadsheets. God, looking back at those posts and I was naive as hell. Really lucky things didn't go too far sideways too.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jun 23, 2018 15:47:24 GMT -5
I talked to H about my concerns with having no leverage when it comes to any financial matters and asked him (in a tactful way) what reassurances do I have when it comes to these issues if we don’t involve any lawyers right now? He said” well...you KNOW me”. But he understood my point and he said that if it would make me feel better, I could write something up regarding our current financial position (as a way to show that he’s not moving money around between the date that we discussed this and whenever we involve a lawyer), and he would be happy to sign it. So I need help in what I should write. What would make sense to include without being too jargon-y but could potentially cover my butt? Also, I assume this wouldn’t be anything that would be admissible in court or anything but more just for peace of mind? (Even if we got it notarized which he said we could do if it wanted to?) I don’t know how to proceed with this. shamwow ? flashjohn ? Anyone else? Any thoughts? Edited to add: Also, we have a large amount of money coming to us that will hit our account a week from now. I would need to somehow account for that in this too.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jun 23, 2018 16:06:55 GMT -5
For those of us who are coming up behind you on this path....
You said you had contacted an attorney. How did you do that (through internet, local phone book, suggestion from friend) and when did you do that (how long before you made your announcement to hubby)? Also was it a free consultation and how much of a discussion did you have?
Anyone else who has gone through this, feel free to jump in and share.
solodriver I did an internet search on local attorneys, checked out their websites to get a feel for them, read every review I could find, and then also talked to two people I know around here who recently got divorced and checked out their recommendations. I met with one attorney and spoke with a second one over the phone only. Both consultations were free. They both spent over an hour with me. I got all my questions answered and they were really great about offering information on the divorce process and specific laws in my state and how I might be affected. They also both gave me estimates of how much child support and alimony I should expect to receive. It was very detailed both times, I brought them specifics on our finances so they could calculate for me and I feel like I have a very good base knowledge now just from that.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 23, 2018 16:27:46 GMT -5
I talked to H about my concerns with having no leverage when it comes to any financial matters and asked him (in a tactful way) what reassurances do I have when it comes to these issues if we don’t involve any lawyers right now? He said” well...you KNOW me”. But he understood my point and he said that if it would make me feel better, I could write something up regarding our current financial position (as a way to show that he’s not moving money around between the date that we discussed this and whenever we involve a lawyer), and he would be happy to sign it. So I need help in what I should write. What would make sense to include without being too jargon-y but could potentially cover my butt? Also, I assume this wouldn’t be anything that would be admissible in court or anything but more just for peace of mind? (Even if we got it notarized which he said we could do if it wanted to?) I don’t know how to proceed with this. shamwow ? flashjohn ? Anyone else? Any thoughts? Edited to add: Also, we have a large amount of money coming to us that will hit our account a week from now. I would need to somehow account for that in this too. As a landlord I have a big three ring binder folder, full of legal documents. Here's a few titttles: Rent Amount Modification Addendum To Lease. Three Day Notice To Pay Rent Or Deliver Possession. Exclusive Rental Management Agreement Pet Addendum So you get the idea? I console with my neighbor who is a realtor/landlord/E.E. and I tell him " I've been talking to my tenant only through text messages so I have a record of our conversations. He tells me (and he loves to use this phrase) "Toilet Paper" that's all it is. A judge is going to throw it away and ask you, why didn't you hand them a legal document first?" So my advice to you is : You have some homework to do this weekend (Happy Anniversary ...NOT!) Google divorce documents, or some other words and see what you find. Sorry I can't give you more right now. It does sound like you need to pick an attorney and get started. One of my pieces of advice is this: Once you pick your attorney, ask your attorney to select an attorney for your H. Someone who they have had successful mediations with, in your area. That's a win , win, for both of you.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 23, 2018 16:36:03 GMT -5
For those of us who are coming up behind you on this path....
You said you had contacted an attorney. How did you do that (through internet, local phone book, suggestion from friend) and when did you do that (how long before you made your announcement to hubby)? Also was it a free consultation and how much of a discussion did you have?
Anyone else who has gone through this, feel free to jump in and share.
solodriver I did an internet search on local attorneys, checked out their websites to get a feel for them, read every review I could find, and then also talked to two people I know around here who recently got divorced and checked out their recommendations. I would put very little weight in websites and reviews. Their are companies out there that you can pay to write good reviews. My psychologist told me how he is inundated with offers all the time. This same child psychologist recommended several good attorneys due to his knowledge of testifying in court. So ask those kinds of people. Doctors, police officers, and staff at the courthouse can be a very good one, these are people that see these attorneys every day and there opinions are on there real behavior and records, not some paid add. You can do this, keep leaning forward!
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Post by shamwow on Jun 23, 2018 17:20:38 GMT -5
I talked to H about my concerns with having no leverage when it comes to any financial matters and asked him (in a tactful way) what reassurances do I have when it comes to these issues if we don’t involve any lawyers right now? He said” well...you KNOW me”. But he understood my point and he said that if it would make me feel better, I could write something up regarding our current financial position (as a way to show that he’s not moving money around between the date that we discussed this and whenever we involve a lawyer), and he would be happy to sign it. So I need help in what I should write. What would make sense to include without being too jargon-y but could potentially cover my butt? Also, I assume this wouldn’t be anything that would be admissible in court or anything but more just for peace of mind? (Even if we got it notarized which he said we could do if it wanted to?) I don’t know how to proceed with this. shamwow ? flashjohn ? Anyone else? Any thoughts? Edited to add: Also, we have a large amount of money coming to us that will hit our account a week from now. I would need to somehow account for that in this too. First. Run a credit report for yourself. You can run one for free at www.annualcreditreport.com. I'd run just one instead of all three in case you want to run another later. Second. Use this as a start to list all of your accounts. Banking. Savings. Mortgage. Retirement. Credit card. Auto loan. Everything. Be sure to ask husband if you are missing anything. Third. Get user ID and password for ALL of these accounts. Get a copy of the latest statements. You will want to get a copy as soon as he moves out too since this will likely be the date of separation the court will used. At this point you have enough information to get STARTED speaking with an attorney about divorce. The lawyer will have information about child support, spousal support, and all the things that are specific to your locale. However, it is up to YOU to do the legwork on the information for your specific situation. Hope that helps!
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Post by shamwow on Jun 23, 2018 17:23:17 GMT -5
I talked to H about my concerns with having no leverage when it comes to any financial matters and asked him (in a tactful way) what reassurances do I have when it comes to these issues if we don’t involve any lawyers right now? He said” well...you KNOW me”. But he understood my point and he said that if it would make me feel better, I could write something up regarding our current financial position (as a way to show that he’s not moving money around between the date that we discussed this and whenever we involve a lawyer), and he would be happy to sign it. So I need help in what I should write. What would make sense to include without being too jargon-y but could potentially cover my butt? Also, I assume this wouldn’t be anything that would be admissible in court or anything but more just for peace of mind? (Even if we got it notarized which he said we could do if it wanted to?) I don’t know how to proceed with this. shamwow ? flashjohn ? Anyone else? Any thoughts? Edited to add: Also, we have a large amount of money coming to us that will hit our account a week from now. I would need to somehow account for that in this too. As a landlord I have a big three ring binder folder, full of legal documents. Here's a few titttles: Rent Amount Modification Addendum To Lease. Three Day Notice To Pay Rent Or Deliver Possession. Exclusive Rental Management Agreement Pet Addendum So you get the idea? I console with my neighbor who is a realtor/landlord/E.E. and I tell him " I've been talking to my tenant only through text messages so I have a record of our conversations. He tells me (and he loves to use this phrase) "Toilet Paper" that's all it is. A judge is going to throw it away and ask you, why didn't you hand them a legal document first?" So my advice to you is : You have some homework to do this weekend (Happy Anniversary ...NOT!) Google divorce documents, or some other words and see what you find. Sorry I can't give you more right now. It does sound like you need to pick an attorney and get started. One of my pieces of advice is this: Once you pick your attorney, ask your attorney to select an attorney for your H. Someone who they have had successful mediations with, in your area. That's a win , win, for both of you. Agree 100 percent. Wise counsel
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 23, 2018 17:25:30 GMT -5
" talked to H about my concerns with having no leverage when it comes to any financial matters and asked him (in a tactful way) what reassurances do I have when it comes to these issues if we don’t involve any lawyers right now? He said” well...you KNOW me”. But he understood my point and he said that if it would make me feel better, I could write something up regarding our current financial position (as a way to show that he’s not moving money around between the date that we discussed this and whenever we involve a lawyer), and he would be happy to sign it. "
Even if you are doing "just" a legal separation, it's wise to involve an attorney.
While I empathize with your compassion for your STBX, I do notice that you are doing a lot to protect his feelings, and that's exactly what you've been doing for years: allowing him to stay in denial that is asexuality means that he is not compatible with a sexual person. Meanwhile, instead of turning to his friends or his mom, he is leaning on you as he experiences the sorrow and grief related to the upcoming divorce that you're are sugar coating by calling it a "separation." This is leaving you stuck trying to figure out how to protect your interests without involving an attorney.
Thus, I suggest that you hire an attorney. That is what is in your interests.
My ex wanted me to just use mediation. I did not trust him, so I hired an attorney. He chose not to, and that was his choice and his right. But truth was , that I had reason not to trust my ex. He had been having an affair and even had been secretly paying child support for 2 years on a child he thought he'd fathered in Asia. Still, even if he hadn't been hiding the child, the fact that he would't fuck me for 8 years, did not cooperate with our counseling, manufactured a reason to stop talking to me when we went away for a romantic weekend -- al l of those things indicated that he was hiding the fact that he didn't love me as husbands and wives are expected to love each other. When I asked what was going on, he simply refused to answer probably because he knew that if he told me the truth, I would have divorced him. He had wanted to stay married to me for the social benefits and other conveniences that our marriage gave him.
Similarly, your husband has gotten a lot out of being married to you, and has as a result hidden information from you about his asexuality. Of course he is unhappy the marriage is ending, but the marriage probably never would have happened if he had been truthful to you about his lack of interest in sex. I don't see any reason for you to continue to protect him from the consequences of his actions. I also think that he's being very manipulative to have you be the one person who's aware of his turmoil now. Your focus now needs to be you, not protecting him from reality. I imagine, too, that even though his therapist is away, your therapist gave your h the name of an emergency contact.
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 23, 2018 17:27:19 GMT -5
Shammy said: "ne of my pieces of advice is this: Once you pick your attorney, ask your attorney to select an attorney for your H. Someone who they have had successful mediations with, in your area. That's a win , win, for both of you."
Her husband also could choose to do what mine did: Divorce without an attorney, which -- if lonelywife is fair like I was to my h -- would save money and not cause the h to be ripped off.
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