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Post by h on Jun 5, 2018 10:52:44 GMT -5
Thanks h . But my mind is not, at this time, at all in the space of trying to save the marriage. Maybe if this continues I would change my mind but, honestly, the idea of sex with my wife now is not at all appealing, and I would prefer not to become a permanent outsourcer. I never said anything about you fixing your marriage. I just meant that being open to divorce changes the conversation in a way that gives you the power. Being willing to walk away takes her threat away from her. It leaves you in a position where you can make a demand for change and she knows there is a real possibility of consequences for non-compliance. It also puts you in the position where divorce after such a warning is no longer a surprise out of the blue. You gave her fair notice.
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Post by dallasgia on Jun 10, 2018 14:47:50 GMT -5
I live your frustration. I would rather not be touched than to be teased like that. And living in a marriage for appearances sake is a slow death to the soul. I feel your pain.
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tsm
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Post by tsm on Jun 10, 2018 15:41:07 GMT -5
northstarmom, the ironic thing was that my wife had been gaslighting me that I was incredibly selfish. And she threatened me with divorce if I didn't get counseling to get rid of my selfishness. I believed it. That's how I ended up in therapy. It took a few weeks before my therapist let me know that she had yet to hear an example of my supposed selfishness. And by then I had told her a number of examples of my wife's own selfishness and self-centeredness. Wow...that touched a nerve.... Very early on in my marriage, before the sex dissapeared, I would get huge hassle if she didn't know exactly what I was doing at a given moment. Stopped for some shopping on the way home, got stuck in some traffic, saw a friend at the shops and talked for ten minutes, I would get a third degree and have to account for every minute. She would use a totally unrealistic timetable in her head and decide when I should be home, then say I was an hour late when really I was 10-15 minutes late and that sort of thing. Each time she did that it hit me harder than last time, eventually an episode of rhatbwould send me into depression for several days and I would withdraw and stop engaging, which would last until she initiated reset sex then I'd be happy for a weeek or so until it happened again....each time was a little harder to come back from and each time I was a little more anxious in beteeen times... What made it worse wa she kept telling me she really trusted me and didn't think I was having an affair but her actions were incongruent with her words. After one day when I had a full blown anxiety attack on the way to work, couldn't remember driving there and couldn't get out of the car an d go in for 15 minutes, she suggested I get counselling to learn not to mind when she did that stuff!!! She booked me a counsellor and I went, the first thing the counsellor said was that I couldn't go on living like that and started to give me strategies to push back. After a few sessions I pretty much told her that she was seeing a counsellor to work herself out and to her credit after a couple of sessions including joint sessions she managed to stop doing it. I was one more episode away from walking out. Then all the crazy stuff happened...sure she had issues but they weren't the issues she got locked up for! The problems we had weren't completely healed, must scabbed over, and I had to throw myself into a headlong fight to save my family. During this, while looking for some papers at home for her, I stumbled across a diary where for months she had been recording my movements, time in and out of the house, making notes about suspicions of an affair, and even my weekly visit next door to my friend to talk about cameras and vintage motorbikes for a few hours, my weekly "me" time, she was writing that she either suspected me of having an affair with him or that I was sneaking straight off from his place and havingnit off with some other woman... All the while telling me she really did trust me... When I saw that I sat down and cried for a few hours... She apologised for that and said I was never meant to see it... I should have kept it, but at the time I wanted to leave the whole thing in the past and move on with my marriage so I burned it... About 4 months later was the turning point where sex disappeared overnight and took all the intimacy with it, and I lived in that desert for two and a half years...but I'm out now and I now have someone who keeps telling me that they are lucky to have me, says they don't deserve someone as nice as me, says they want to wake up next to me every day, wants to hold me close and touch me...it IS possible to actually have that! And it is amazing...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 16:02:30 GMT -5
OK, @tsl, I wasn't going to tell this story, but I have to.
About a year and a half ago I found a list that my wife made of all my horrible attributes (in her head.) It was pretty vicious. But she had told me all these things in anger during our fights, and my self-esteem was so poor, I literally forgot about it.
While in counseling I re-found it and read it to my therapist.
Now, she is trained to not show to much emotional reaction, but as I was reading it - and it was a very long list, with more than 30 specific awful character traits I supposedly have - I could see that she was horrified. And she was even more stunned that I could read this list as matter-of-factly as I did. Why wasn't I in tears?
Only when I saw this through her eyes did I realize how completely screwed up this marriage is, and only then did I start contemplating divorce.
And in a heartwarming postscript, I told my overseas AP about this list. She was horrified as well, and a couple of days later she emailed me a list of over 40 things she finds wonderful about me, one of the most touching things anyone ever did for me. It begins with:
And on and on. Many the exact opposite of my wife's list. And although I am hardly conceited, my AP's list captures me the way I see myself and the way I try to be. My wife sees the worst; my AP sees the best.
This is when I really knew the contrast between my marriage and what a relationship is supposed to be.
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tsm
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Post by tsm on Jun 11, 2018 0:07:08 GMT -5
I never outsourced, but I spent a long time thinking about it, and about how good it would feel to have someone who mostly said nice things to and about me.... After I helped my ex move across the state just after we finally broke up, I had a couple of people at her new town come up and tell me that if they had an ex who was willing to help them move, they would not talk to them like she was taking to me...and at one point I almost got into my car and drove away....mostly I didn't because the truck was hired on my licence as she only has a car licence.... Time and distance have moderated her and we can be friends again from afar but that's it. Now having someone who only says nice things about me is an amazing feeling, being told that she doesn't deserve someone as nice as me, that she is the luckiest woman alive to have me, that makes me feel amazing even though I know I'm not superman, just a normal guy trying to be a good person...it still feels great to hear someone say that and mean it! I am sad I stayed as long as I did...and in the end it was so dysfunctional that she was the one who called the relationship off, but I was a few weeks away from doing the same thing... Having someone who truly loves you for who you are is the best feeling in the world...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 10:01:40 GMT -5
The micro-reset continues but in surprising ways...
During our last fight I had mentioned, a bit rudely, that I was no longer interested in sex with her. I realized more recently that the cuddle/spooning she asked me for that week might have been a test to see if I would get aroused! I know I didn't. And she hasn't initiated any physical contact since then.
But she's been friendly and pleasant since then. We've worked together fairly well on projects. She's been staying away from topics that she used to be obsessed over that irritate me.
Most interestingly, we spent a lot of time over the past few days witH my family for a wedding. She has always gritted her teeth for my family events and would then be angry at me afterwards for what she had to hold inside to keep the peace with them, even though it is obviously tense. But this time, for the most part, she was outgoing and charming with my family.
None of this helps me get laid, of course.
Also, I think she's suspicious....I did ask her for an account password I usually don't access and she said, "oh, you're checking out our accounts?"
It is all interesting and makes life easier and less unpleasant but it doesn't address what I need or our basic incompatibility. So I still plan to start my visit to a lawyer this week.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 26, 2018 10:43:38 GMT -5
Also, I think she's suspicious....I did ask her for an account password I usually don't access and she said, "oh, you're checking out our accounts?" At that point, just go all-in... “That’s not a bad idea, now that you mention it. I should probably have all of the passwords.”
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Post by unmatched on Jun 26, 2018 19:00:53 GMT -5
You might want to watch your back. Just a hunch...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 20:32:43 GMT -5
Saw my second lawyer today for a free consult. Seemed more knowledgeable but less hungry than lawyer #1.
Opened up a bank account in my name only yesterday.
But for now, acting like everything is sort of okay.
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