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Post by flounder on May 31, 2018 13:35:44 GMT -5
flounder, I know very well that I will never be in a good marriage with my wife no matter what. At best we could be friends. My battle is with my own fear and my own natural passivity. I understand.
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Post by choosinghappy on May 31, 2018 15:22:22 GMT -5
I think elynne is so right-on with her response. I couldn’t help thinking when you wrote “I know my real faults and so does my wife, so when she uses those weapons in an argument I can’t argue and I truly feel bad...” I think: So what? Everyone has faults. At least you are aware of yours and have been trying to work on them. That’s a lot more than you can say for her. Being a good person doesn’t mean you can’t also have faults. Yes, you may have “inadvertently hurt her” but she has *intentionally* hurt you and continues to. The fact that YOU are the one who feels bad and she sees herself as blameless just highlights the difference between you and how you live your lives. (Her hypocrisy in following Jewish law is another HUGE one.) I absolutely think your wife is scared to death of a divorce and perhaps this instance was the first time she TRULY believed it was a possibility. She’s always thought she’s had the upper hand with you, and maybe that’s been true, but not anymore. Perhaps she’s realized that. I don’t know if the affection was due to her truly being afraid of losing you or if it was an intentional malicious reset. Unfortunately, since you have stated before that you two don’t love each other, my guess is it is the latter. I agree to prepare yourself for a vicious battle if you DO decide to divorce her. But i highly doubt she would ever initiate a divorce. She knows where her bread is buttered and with you “fighting back” now, I think she is finally realizing what she would stand to lose. And sadly, for her, I think her worry is over losing the life she is accustomed to more so than worry about losing YOU. And you deserve SO much more than that. She’s shown her hand and “shred her cred” as baza says and you are in the position of power now. Her only play is to backpedal and try the different angle of playing nice. I personally am skeptical that it is genuine. Maybe it is though. And only you can decide if what she can offer you is still good enough for you.
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Post by choosinghappy on May 31, 2018 15:47:46 GMT -5
As an aside: elynne I can see a lot of your H in how you described your mother’s manipulations. I hope you can detach yourself from his barbs in the same way you did with the relationship with her. The way he sees you is most definitely not the way WE see you, and also not the way you see yourSELF when you are away from him. The way you felt incredulous about your mother’s actions is the way I feel when you talk about your H’s interactions with you.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 16:52:28 GMT -5
choosinghappyThanks for your thoughts. You are helping me think clearer. I was rehearsing some "Talk" scenarios and I realized a couple of games I can expect her to try to manipulate me with. Your words are quite useful and practical, as usual.
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Post by baza on May 31, 2018 18:00:17 GMT -5
Opportunity knocked, but you were not prepared Brother @shynjdude .
However, it looks like this exchange was a pretty good 'dress rehearsal' and you learned some valuable stuff out of it. Not the least of which is that her threats of divorce are so much bullshit. Her cred doesn't seem to have been enhanced in any way in this exchange - whereas yours has.
Given your missus' propensity to shoot from the hip, you can back in the fact that she will present you with another opportunity in the fairly near future when she next chooses to go apeshit over something. Further, I bet you know what buttons to push to provoke such an event, to produce a new opportunity, if you so choose.
Your job is to be as fully prepared as possible next time she deploys her histrionics - or when you wish to create your own opportunity. Legal advice, exit strategy etc...the stuff that has continually been suggested over the last year.
The 'bed hopping' aspect of this exchange aren't particularly relevant. A "micro" re-set as you describe it. Not especially important in the wider scheme of things.
I think you've come out of this exchange quite well actually, you have the initiative at this point - and it is important that you keep it.
Really, if you are as fully prepared as you can be, you can pretty much drop the boom on this deal at a time of your choosing. Like the next time she goes apeshit, or at a time and place of your choosing.
Your state of preparedness is the key here, and that is something you can be complete control of, if you choose to be.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 18:06:12 GMT -5
You are right, baza. And I plan to be prepared, or at least to have a better idea of what I need to be prepared, sooner rather than later. My fear is receding, for the most part. And I'm looking forward to making an appointment with an attorney or three.
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Post by nyartgal on May 31, 2018 19:11:28 GMT -5
There is a lot of good advice and insight here. I don't really see this as a reset, I see it as a positive opportunity to see how much you have detached from this seriously loveless and dysfunctional situation, and to feel good about that. You sound down on yourself, but what I see if someone consistently and methodically finding a way out of a bad situation. Your wife sounds like a pretty miserable person, and if your description is accurate, I would understand if deprogramming yourself from her warped cult leader like domination could take time.
My feeling is, you may not be able to change your passivity if that is hard wired, but you can work on getting rid of your fears. Or at least not let them stop you from doing what it takes to be happy.
There's a lot of "keeping up appearances" in your story, from both of you. I understand that if you come from a religious community that can be ingrained. But it doesn't seem to me that keeping up appearances is making either of you very happy, even if it's normal in your world. It seems to me that what you crave is an authentic existence. An authentic relationship with authentic feelings, and not having to hide from things anymore. So, consider not hiding as one of the liberating results of choosing an authentic life (or "living your truth"if you prefer), and use that as a counterbalance to your fears.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 20:07:41 GMT -5
nyartgal , I do indeed crave an authentic existence, but it is not inconsistent with the religious stuff. It means I would hope to eventually find a wife who shares those values and with whom I can grow spiritually as well as emotionally. Thanks to the most obvious break from my belief system by outsourcing, I know what it feels like feel loved and accepted and thoroughly comfortable in a relationship. (Even weirder, to be looked up to and admired. I still cannot wrap my head around that!) That, more than anything, is what propels me to get away from the toxic relationship I have with my wife. Before that I had no idea exactly what a fun-house mirror twisted world I lived in. And within my relationship with my overseas AP, I was very surprised how easily I was able to be and act and feel normal.
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Post by baza on May 31, 2018 20:55:40 GMT -5
As you know, I am not a fan of outsourcing, as it adds an extra layer of complication over an already complex situation.
But for all that, it is just about guaranteed to be a game changer, one way and/or another.
Here, it has played no small part in your process of challenging your thinking Brother @shynjdude . Outsourcing has probably propelled you forward in your thinking in a manner and at a pace 1,000 posts/suggestions on here could not have done.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 21:04:36 GMT -5
As you know, I am not a fan of outsourcing, as it adds an extra layer of complication over an already complex situation. But for all that, it is just about guaranteed to be a game changer, one way and/or another. Here, it has played no small part in your process of challenging your thinking Brother @shynjdude . Outsourcing has probably propelled you forward in your thinking in a manner and at a pace 1,000 posts/suggestions on here could not have done. Indeed. I have told my therapist, "No offense, but I cannot imagine how any number of years of therapy could have gotten me out of my spiral of hopelessness the way outsourcing did. "
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Post by flounder on May 31, 2018 21:25:53 GMT -5
What did your therapist say ?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 22:08:53 GMT -5
What did your therapist say ? She readily agreed. I was really down on myself. If you want to boost your self esteem, 45 minutes a week with a therapist cannot compare to an entire day or more with a partner who really, truly desires you.
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Post by shamwow on Jun 1, 2018 8:13:19 GMT -5
What did your therapist say ? She readily agreed. I was really down on myself. If you want to boost your self esteem, 45 minutes a week with a therapist cannot compare to an entire day or more with a partner who really, truly desires you. And once you've had that experience, the prospect of a life sentence with a refuser loses all of its charm, doesn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 9:34:58 GMT -5
shamwowPrecisely. I admit that many years ago, in the earlier days of my SM, I had some opportunistic flings than meant nothing, just to scratch that itch. They didn't affect my view of the marriage at all. But spending time with someone you care about, and who cares about you...that is the real game changer. To have actual romance. To care about their pleasure more than your own. To speak about your deepest secrets while in each others' arms after sex, knowing that you will get nothing but love and support. And, for me, to spend quality time OUT of bed, just walking around and holding hands..... That is where one REALLY sees and feels the contrast with one's SM.
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Post by wom360 on Jun 1, 2018 9:40:22 GMT -5
So, did she try the cuddling game again last night? Or was it just a one time half-try?
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