Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 9:46:57 GMT -5
wom360, no, but we have been working like crazy on projects for our home business so she stayed up working. I think the cuddling was more for her to be reassured than to reset me, to be honest. I don't know if she knows the difference. We have a two person jacuzzi. For years, she would invite me to take a bath with her...and wouldn't touch me. If I tried anything, I would be (gently) rebuffed. To her, just the invitation was supposed to be an act of caring - as if calling someone over to smell a wonderful steak that cannot be eaten is a huge kindness. I have not joined her in the jacuzzi for a long time.
|
|
|
Post by workingonit on Jun 1, 2018 18:03:50 GMT -5
I could be reading too much of my own life experience into your story, but I see parallels. I remember one of the times my mother was trying to manipulate me. She pulled out her usual arsenal of cruel and hurtful barbs. You’re lazy, you do everything half-assed, you’re a quitter. I’d handled those wounds. I knew deep down her words didn’t reflect an accurate image of me. I got that these were her deepest, darkest self-truths that she tried to attach to me. My prior reaction would have been to protest, to counter her attacks, to be hit and hurt by her words. Post-healing, I watched her almost clinically. She was throwing her blows but they weren’t landing. I was immune. I actually laughed. Not cruelly, but incredulously. To see the dynamic so clearly but without being hurt by it! ‘Oh my God! This is what you try to do?! Oh! You poor, sad, creature.’ Almost like a toddler flailing about, furious but powerless. This is a bit of a ramble, but maybe helpful? To recap: you’re in a much stronger position than you realize. And go meta. The parallels with your mom are exact. And over time I was gaslighted into believing them. It took therapy plus a deep connection with others who could tell me accurately that I was almost the exact opposite of who I had believed I was before I could get out of that funk. Your advice is sound, but my self-awareness is part of the problem. I know my real faults, and so does my wife, so when uses those weapons in an argument I can't argue, and I truly feel bad for the parts of me that have inadvertently hurt my wife over the years. (For example, procrastinating. Right now I should be working on a report for work. But I know I'll get it done on time anyway.) She uses those to keep me in a position of always apologizing, yet when I point out her flaws that hurt me, she always has a justification and never an apology. So she keeps her position of strength. I know it is all control. And I know it is also a lot of bravado that is meant to mask her own self esteem issues. Even with that knowledge, I still allowed myself to be drawn into her game on Monday. It is very difficult to escape decades of that dynamic. Congratulations on doing it with your mother. My situation will not last long as long as I stay strong. But, I can't help but worry whether I really am that strong. Years of this abuse, of which the SM is only a small part, still leaves a lot of scars. Thanks. You ARE that strong @shynjdude. And you have lots of support right here to help you remember! Way to go with taking the wind right out of her sail.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 18:17:20 GMT -5
Thanks workingonit. The support here is and will be invaluable.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Jun 1, 2018 18:24:46 GMT -5
Shyndude, are you in therapy now? If not, I recommend that you find a good therapist and use that to help you gain the self confidence and emotional strength to become the best you. Then you will have the strength to comfortably live your own truth including being able to detach from people who are not supportive.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 18:29:29 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 18:40:29 GMT -5
northstarmom, the ironic thing was that my wife had been gaslighting me that I was incredibly selfish. And she threatened me with divorce if I didn't get counseling to get rid of my selfishness. I believed it. That's how I ended up in therapy. It took a few weeks before my therapist let me know that she had yet to hear an example of my supposed selfishness. And by then I had told her a number of examples of my wife's own selfishness and self-centeredness.
|
|
|
Post by flounder on Jun 1, 2018 23:12:28 GMT -5
Nice to get some validation isn’t it ?
|
|
|
Post by elynne on Jun 2, 2018 10:48:55 GMT -5
northstarmom, the ironic thing was that my wife had been gaslighting me that I was incredibly selfish. And she threatened me with divorce if I didn't get counseling to get rid of my selfishness. I believed it. That's how I ended up in therapy. It took a few weeks before my therapist let me know that she had yet to hear an example of my supposed selfishness. And by then I had told her a number of examples of my wife's own selfishness and self-centeredness. I think the things our spouses (not all spouses but particularly our spouses) accuse us of are the things that they are guilty of but can’t admit so they transfer those ‘flaws’ onto an available or vulnerable party.
|
|
|
Post by saarinista on Jun 2, 2018 12:13:33 GMT -5
You are right, baza. And I plan to be prepared, or at least to have a better idea of what I need to be prepared, sooner rather than later. My fear is receding, for the most part. And I'm looking forward to making an appointment with an attorney or three. Make that/those appoinments for informational chats with the barristers (NOT to be confused with baristas!) like YESTERDAY, @shynjdude. Why are you moving so slowly on that precautionary step? Do it!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 5:28:06 GMT -5
Micro-update on micro-reset:
Wife really seems to have taken one of my major points in our fight/discussion last week to heart. I told her that while she prides herself on always looking at the big picture (usually while accusing me of only seeing a tiny slice of the pie) she always, and I mean always, looks at everything I do through the lens of a person who is selfish, lazy and vindictive. I gave her examples where there is no way to interpret my actions as anything but giving and hard-working, and even then she tried to justify her reactions at the time of assuming my selfishness.
Anyway, since she said we should speak to each other as if there was no baggage any more, she really has. She has not insulted me, and on the contrary she has praised me (we are in the middle of busy season for our home video production business and I have been working hard and coming up with interesting creative ideas for our customers even while she panics over meeting deadlines.)
Even when she panics - on Saturday night she was fixated on how there was no way to move forward with a video that is due in a week and that I hadn't started working on because of two others I had to finish first - I spent hours trying to calm her down and eventually decided to create a framework at 4 AM for the video so she could go to sleep knowing there was a plan. I worked some 15 hours Sunday on the video so she knows we'll get it done, and she made some good suggestions. She admitted on Sunday how her panicking (and yelling at me when she panics) is not productive. (I recommended mindfulness techniques. She won't do them...)
Again, baby steps. No where close to a marriage. I'm not quite sure what to do with this right now. For now, I still plan to visit a lawyer when these projects are done and at least have some better idea of what my options are. At the moment, though, things are more livable, and it does seem to be a response to my making it clear that I no longer oppose divorce.
|
|
|
Post by h on Jun 5, 2018 6:53:42 GMT -5
Micro-update on micro-reset: Wife really seems to have taken one of my major points in our fight/discussion last week to heart. I told her that while she prides herself on always looking at the big picture (usually while accusing me of only seeing a tiny slice of the pie) she always, and I mean always, looks at everything I do through the lens of a person who is selfish, lazy and vindictive. I gave her examples where there is no way to interpret my actions as anything but giving and hard-working, and even then she tried to justify her reactions at the time of assuming my selfishness. Anyway, since she said we should speak to each other as if there was no baggage any more, she really has. She has not insulted me, and on the contrary she has praised me (we are in the middle of busy season for our home video production business and I have been working hard and coming up with interesting creative ideas for our customers even while she panics over meeting deadlines.) Even when she panics - on Saturday night she was fixated on how there was no way to move forward with a video that is due in a week and that I hadn't started working on because of two others I had to finish first - I spent hours trying to calm her down and eventually decided to create a framework at 4 AM for the video so she could go to sleep knowing there was a plan. I worked some 15 hours Sunday on the video so she knows we'll get it done, and she made some good suggestions. She admitted on Sunday how her panicking (and yelling at me when she panics) is not productive. (I recommended mindfulness techniques. She won't do them...) Again, baby steps. No where close to a marriage. I'm not quite sure what to do with this right now. For now, I still plan to visit a lawyer when these projects are done and at least have some better idea of what my options are. At the moment, though, things are more livable, and it does seem to be a response to my making it clear that I no longer oppose divorce. That was the game changer for my household also. Once I called her divorce bluff and started talking about agreeing with her, she backtracked her words and started to make more of an effort. I took all the power out of her threats to leave me when I told her: "Maybe you're right about divorce. Maybe this is a lost cause and it would be better for us both to just divorce. If my demands for a reasonably consistent sex life are causing you too much stress to live like this anymore, maybe we should just call it quits and go our separate ways for the sake of both our health." That was the first time she was ever in a position where she didn't know how to respond. It totally took her by surprise because I had spent our entire marriage kowtowing to her in an effort to keep the marriage together. Apparently the only way to begin to fix it was to risk ending it.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 5, 2018 7:07:51 GMT -5
There are (and have been) plenty of stories in here where ostensibly, it appeared the refuser spouse exercised power over the refused spouse by implicitly or directly playing the "divorce threat card" as a first response to any threat to their control of the dynamic.
And, time after time you see - if the refused spouse catches a clue and is prepared to call them out on it - the refuser spouse folds. And shreds their cred. And the dynamic takes a big shift in position.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 7:13:43 GMT -5
Thanks h. But my mind is not, at this time, at all in the space of trying to save the marriage. Maybe if this continues I would change my mind but, honestly, the idea of sex with my wife now is not at all appealing, and I would prefer not to become a permanent outsourcer.
|
|
|
Post by flounder on Jun 5, 2018 9:03:17 GMT -5
Again, baby steps. No where close to a marriage. I'm not quite sure what to do with this right now. For now, I still plan to visit a lawyer when these projects are done and at least have some better idea of what my options are. At the moment, though, things are more livable, and it does seem to be a response to my making it clear that I no longer oppose divorce.
Kudos shynjdude. I think you’ve given yourself the best advice.
Baby steps.
|
|
|
Post by wom360 on Jun 5, 2018 9:43:01 GMT -5
These gestures are less than crumbs and not even close to something that should change your plans.
|
|