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Post by workingonit on Oct 30, 2017 20:49:55 GMT -5
"I think I'm on a 2 year plan (+1 year separation). When the youngest gets into elementary school is when I will start my exit. What I'm trying to figure out is how do I start with the least complications. Last night when the W cuddled against me, it felt so odd, like she was cuddling with the old me and the post decision me was sitting on the other side. Do I compartmentalize to the point that there are 2 me-s? One that is around her and the other boxed up inside?" My H and I started therapy. I realized, as we were both digging painfully through our childhoods in our joint therapy session that the work I am doing now is so important for both of us moving forward. I do not believe it will save our marriage. But I do believe I am learning so much about my mistakes in picking partners, in relationships, etc. And I am helping him do the same. This man has been my partner for 17 years and it feels good to do this work for both of us. Sort of a debriefing of sorts. That's how I am seeing this time a bit. In one sense (and likely just one) I am grateful we do not even touch. We actually hugged after therapy and it felt sort of brotherly. If I had to fake and compartmentalize affection or actual sex I don't think I could do it. Then again I would probably die of shock before I could even define what I was feeling!
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 30, 2017 22:03:06 GMT -5
"She has started putting out, again, and I get no enjoyment from it, in part because I know she does not either. "
Have you been snipped? She could be trying to trap you by getting pregnant.
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 31, 2017 18:19:08 GMT -5
"She has started putting out, again, and I get no enjoyment from it, in part because I know she does not either. " Have you been snipped? She could be trying to trap you by getting pregnant. Yes. I have been to the vet. She knows I am looking outside the marriage for what I have not been able to get within it. She has no idea if I have been successful or not.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 19:00:56 GMT -5
I think I'm on a 2 year plan (+1 year separation). When the youngest gets into elementary school is when I will start my exit. What I'm trying to figure out is how do I start with the least complications. Last night when the W cuddled against me, it felt so odd, like she was cuddling with the old me and the post decision me was sitting on the other side. Do I compartmentalize to the point that there are 2 me-s? One that is around her and the other boxed up inside? I'm on a 4 year plan. To be exact, I am nearing the end of a 4-year plan, 9 months left. (But who's counting?? Ok, I am. ) Long range plans are feasible with the right strategy and in certain situations. My plan was covert for the first 2 years. My H knew I was unhappy, but I had not asked for a divorce or mentioned my plans to him. I started back to school during that time. In July 2016, things got so bad that I didn't think I could take another month, let alone 2 more years. I asked for a divorce and he said... NO! He was nasty about it at first, trying to bully me back into place but then he was somewhat contrite and said he'd win me back, but that if I still wanted to go when I graduated, I could. So, that's where we stand. There hasn't been much winning me back. There's been more of the same - bullying, mixed with occasional contrition and a lot of very average days and interactions. Some bad sex thrown in there, which I don't care to ever repeat. I've been sexless about a year now. How do I stay? I made it my goal to work on the friendship. I try to just be kind and friendly to him, and I generally succeed. I try NEVER to ask for anything he can't or won't give me (sex, affection, conversation that he hasn't initiated, vacations, date nights, etc.). Honestly, we're getting along well now. He even hugs me every day. So long as I don't ask for anything, he's a good friend/roommate. And that's my goal if/when we divorce - genuine friendship with the father of my children. Another thing I do that helps me stay... I practice gratitude on a daily basis. I pray. I thank God for giving me a man who clothes me and puts a roof over my head and who let me stay home with our children for so many years. He pays for my schooling. He fills my car up with gas. He runs to the grocery store for me. You get the idea... Most of our refusers are not ALL bad. So I try to notice and be grateful for those things every single day. It helps. And I would be lying if I didn’t divulge my secret weapon. I have a male friend (for the past 15 months). We are celibate (by conscious choice – I just can’t go there). But we love each other deeply and support each other through all of the ups and down. He’s going through a divorce now. It’s been tough on him. He has given me my self-esteem back as I know I am attractive to him, and he builds me up every chance he gets. Without him, I am not sure I could endure the last 2 years of my plan. I didn't mean to write so much but hope it was helpful. I'm in an intensive program right now and it keeps me so busy I'm barely on the boards. Best wishes to you.
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Post by baza on Oct 31, 2017 22:06:58 GMT -5
If - for whatever reason you like - you reject the idea of leaving, then by default, you are choosing to stay.
If you are choosing to stay, then you need to be realistic about your aims and aspirations for the relationship. What it is capable of delivering and what it is not capable of delivering.
Sex, is - obviously - out of that picture. So you need to cease and desist from any form of trying to beg, cajole, reason, force or manipulate your spouse sexually. And you need to do this in good humour, not resentfully. You need to stop complaining about your spouses behaviour. You need to cease chasing your spouses' "why". You need to completely and willingly let it go. Sex is NOT going to be a part of this relationship. Get the pressure off your spouse - and yourself - by taking this aspect of the relationship right off the agenda. This relationship is incapable of delivering sex. RECOGNISE the REALITY of what the relationship is NOT capable of delivering And conduct yourself accordingly.
Now, without any sexual pressure on the relationship, the relationship can be based on what it IS capable of delivering.
If indeed "everything is great bar the sex", the relationship is capable of delivering all sorts of things (other than sex) of value. For example, financial stability, co-parenting, social standing, companionship and other things of value.
You may find that scrubbing the incapable sexual aspect of the deal off the table enables you to direct your focus on to the aspects the relationship IS capable of. And, you might be able to cobble together a functional - albeit sexless - mutually acceptable relationship where you can at least "get along" to a large extent..
Thing is, you have to RECOGNISE the REALITY of your relationship. And not bullshit yourself about what it is capable of, and what it is NOT capable of. Same for you (and your spouse)
If you continue to try and force you, your spouse, and the relationship into things it is not capable of being, you are in for a continued world of hurt.
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 31, 2017 22:21:11 GMT -5
^^^^^ Since I gave up, I feel a lot better.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 31, 2017 22:33:02 GMT -5
^^^^^ Since I gave up, I feel a lot better. Agreed!! Giving up on changing your spouse, and giving up on always changing to please your spouse. Giving up being manipulated and controlled in the falsehood of "chivalry" .Instead feeling better about standing up for yourself and setting boundaries.
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Post by M2G on Oct 31, 2017 22:33:03 GMT -5
Same here. Just about ready to give up the good night kisses too. Just makes me remember how things used to be, and the reminder is still too painful.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 22:40:21 GMT -5
Thing is, you have to RECOGNISE the REALITY of your relationship. And not bullshit yourself about what it is capable of, and what it is NOT capable of. Same for you (and your spouse) If you continue to try and force you, your spouse, and the relationship into things it is not capable of being, you are in for a continued world of hurt. This is absolutely brilliant. Thank you for taking the time to articulate that Baza. I think this is essentially what I’m doing now, accepting my H for the asexual, non-communicative, emotionally illiterate man that he is. I’ve dropped all of my expectations of him and I’m just letting him bring whatever he has to the table. This has taken all the pressure off our relationship and is actually helping us to get along better. I don’t intend to live without sex or conversation or date nights or vacations for the rest of my life. But at least I’m not so hurt and angry at my H anymore. He’s doing the best he can. He really has nothing more to offer. It’s ok. Now I get to make my final decision from a much less emotional place.
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Post by james on Nov 1, 2017 9:00:33 GMT -5
Thank you, Baza, extremely well put if I may say so. I went through the beg/cajole/reason/force/manipulate phase- it achieved nothing except make me angry and unhappy. I moved on from that and I would characterize my current phase as one of acceptance. But- and this is a very critical but- I would not be able to be in this phase if I had not taken a decision that the marriage was not sustainable and that I would be leaving it at some point. I tried accepting that sex wasn't part of the relationship without any plan to leave and that just wasn't possible, it drove me crazy very quickly. It was horrible! In my current situation, I can make efforts as you describe to work on the elements of the relationship that are positive, of which there are plenty. I am doing this and I am quite happy at the moment, in fact very happy. The issue that I keep coming back to, though, is that my wife doesn't know, in fact I don't think has any idea, that I have made this plan to leave. For all she knows, I have lost interest in sex completely and everything about our relationship is fine. So I do need to tell her.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 1, 2017 10:27:43 GMT -5
“The issue that I keep coming back to, though, is that my wife doesn't know, in fact I don't think has any idea, that I have made this plan to leave. For all she knows, I have lost interest in sex completely and everything about our relationship is fine. So I do need to tell her”
You will need to tel her when it finally is the me to divorce. Telling her much earlier could lead to a variety of major problems: your wife’s running up debt; hiding money; or doing everything possible to trap you are have other people shun you or attempt to convince you to stay married.
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Post by james on Nov 1, 2017 10:47:21 GMT -5
You will need to tel her when it finally is the me to divorce. Telling her much earlier could lead to a variety of major problems: your wife’s running up debt; hiding money; or doing everything possible to trap you are have other people shun you or attempt to convince you to stay married. Thanks northstarmom, I see what you are saying but it doesn't seem that simple to me, for the following reason: if I delay saying anything to the point when I am ready to divorce, I know what she will say, which is that I have not given her a proper opportunity to fix the problem, and that I need to work with her for another couple of years to give her that chance. To which you would no doubt say that I have already amply advised her that I am not happy in the relationship. To which she would no doubt respond that if she had known that I was planning to leave she would have made more of an effort. So, really, I want to give her advance notice so that I can absolutely avoid the prospect of any delaying tactics when time is up. I'm not too worried about the things that you mention, the one thing that does bother me is the prospect of living in what I think Dan referred to as a radioactive wasteland for a prolonged period if I make my intentions clear in advance of time.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 1, 2017 11:18:11 GMT -5
“if I delay saying anything to the point when I am ready to divorce, I know what she will say, which is that I have not given her a proper opportunity to fix the problem, and that I need to work with her for another couple of years to give her that chance”
You don’t have to do what she says. You probably don’t even need her agreement to divorce.
Also even if you say you are so unhappy that you will divorce unless things change, when you finally file, she still may deny you warned her. Many refusers will spin any story they think will get them what they want.
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 1, 2017 12:49:23 GMT -5
To which she would no doubt respond that if she had known that I was planning to leave she would have made more of an effort. To which I would respond... it takes threat of divorce to get the "real" level of effort? If she can't be arsed to make "real" effort in response to your complaints, then that says it all. Truly, and I'm right in the thick of this quandary with you, this is about trying to justify to yourself and anyone watching that "you tried everything". News Flash: there will always be "one more thing" to try. You can't live your marriage under overt threat of divorce to keep her motivated. For anything to be sustainable, she needs to be self-motivated. For any thinking person, it's obvious that a chronically unhappy spouse = divorce. You shouldn't even need to say it. "Sorry, officer, if I'd known you'd *actually* ticket me for running a red light, I would have made more effort to stop." Yeah. Nope.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 1, 2017 21:48:57 GMT -5
itme I think you are right on. There is a way I am plugged into my entire life as a married woman. My community, friends, etc. Part of what makes this whole thing suck so badly is that it will absolutely change. A friend of mine got divorced 3 years ago. While everyone absolutely flocked to her and demonized her husband, her relationship to all of us still changed. She was a third wheel when couples would be getting together. Now, I made time to be with her but it really did change her social life and how others treated her when she was single again. It is a fact. I really don't have many single friends. Everything in my life will change if/when I leave my SM. My friend moved away from our town this year- felt she needed to start over. She is doing well but in order to really recover from the end of her marriage she had to totally gut her life and start again. That really sucks if you actually love your life. I am not saying this is enough to make me want to stay. (although I think it is a HUGE reason I have not come to this point earlier and have lived in my SM for so long) I really don't want to be divorced. I know I will keep my close friends but I also know the fabric and rhythm of those relationships will change. HOwever, I also want to actually be in a real loving and passionate relationship. It is just another layer of the tragedy of being in an SM. Fucking tragic.
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